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  #1  
Old December 15th, 2008, 08:32 PM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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trying to decide when to put my old dog down.

I have a lasa 15 years old. He is having seizures/tremors or old age ticks.
I took him to two vets and the blood work shows signs of kidney failure.
and a stomach virus. he has completed the stomach virus pills.
I have him off commercial dog food but he is a picky eater. he Perfers rare
steak and hates vegetables. He is on diazepam about 1/4 table twice a day. it makes him sleep alot but seems that I may need to up the dosage.
the vet said 1 table twice a day but that really has him bumping into the walls. Stress will bring on a seizure as well as bright light and at times he seems blind.

Questions.
Which is best for long term care Diazepam or phenobarbital?
What is the end like for a dog with seizures or kidney failure?

He had a major seizures tonight. I think it is getting time to make the hard choice any help would be appreciated. he is still eating and drinking but it
is hard to watch him suffer with the seizures and when I up the dosage he
is running into the walls.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:42 PM
theycallmestace theycallmestace is offline
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I don't know much to be honest, but you know your dog better than anyone else, if the dog is in pain, or doesn't have a life, then as hard as it might be i would say let him go.
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  #3  
Old December 15th, 2008, 08:46 PM
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danam314 danam314 is offline
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I'm so, so sorry with what you are your dog are going through.

I have never had the pain of saying goodbye to a furry friend but a few months ago I thought we would have to make that decision - thankfully we didn't. All I can offer for advice is that you take a good look at your dog and make your own decision about his quality of life. Is he happy? Is he in pain? Is he enjoying everyday as you would like him to?Are the medications affecting what he can/cannot do? As much as it pains us to see our friends go, it is all about their quality of life. When I was in that position it took a few days to fight the "selfish" feelings of "I want him here" and "I don't want to let him go."

I wish you and your furry friend the best of luck in whatever decision you make. Do what is best for him. He needs that from you
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:52 PM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Hi scooter1,

I'm sorry to hear that your pup's body is wearing out. Knowing when the time is right to help our pets "cross the bridge" can be one of the toughest decisions we ever make. There is a Quality of Life Scale that can sometimes help. As well, I find if you try to take the perspective that you are sharing a monumental "right of passage" with your beloved fur-friend, instead of trying to fight against the inevitable path we will all take, it can make it less traumatic. Consider it an honor that you shared such great love and companionship, and that even though death may not be easy, it can still be filled with love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter1 View Post
I took him to two vets and the blood work shows signs of kidney failure.
Is he on any treatment for the kidney failure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter1 View Post
Questions.
Which is best for long term care Diazepam or phenobarbital?
My understanding is that phenobarbital is the drug of choice for seizures. Is there a particular reason your vet went with Diazepam?
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Old December 15th, 2008, 08:55 PM
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Mat&Murph Mat&Murph is offline
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I have been where you are and believe me when I say My heart is with you and your furry baby!!! It is sooo hard to make that choice but you don't want to see him suffer!! I still cry over my dogs that I have had in the past that crosses over the rainbow bridge but I am soo glad that they didn't suffer.

15 years is pretty awsome and you have taken care of you baby well. Talk to the vet and my thoughts and prayers are with you in whatever choice you make
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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:08 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Making a decision like the one you are facing is one many of us have had to make and it's not an easy one. we love our animals and their lives are far, far too short.

Diazepam can be the med of choice for non-specific seizure control but you may want to ask your Vet about other med choices. Small, old dogs are tricky to medicate because well, they're small and old.

You have blood work that makes your Vet think your dog is in kidney failure. Is this being treated? Is there any behavioural evidence that this is the case?

A big question for me here is what is your dog eating? Is it possible s/he is eating or has eaten something that may have precipitated this...

Last edited by mummummum; December 15th, 2008 at 09:10 PM. Reason: cuz I can't splel
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  #7  
Old December 15th, 2008, 10:42 PM
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Frenchy Frenchy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post

My understanding is that phenobarbital is the drug of choice for seizures.
Yes it is. And like any strong drugs , it can "wear out" your dog after a long period of time. Like the others have stated : quality of life. If your dog has more happy periods than pain ones , I would say wait. If not .... I wouldn't let him suffer more.

I am very sorry , I know how hard this decision is to make . :sad:
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  #8  
Old December 16th, 2008, 01:10 AM
Karin Karin is offline
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This is never easy. You have to ask yourself about the quality of life as the other posters stated. If you can honestly answer these to yourself and they cannot be met, and I truely believe your pet will tell you when, you have to do right by them.
They give you love and devotion throughout their life with no questions asked. You need to ponder all of this..and decide one of the hardest choices of your life and give back.
Our pet's lives are scaled differently then ours, 15 years is, for a dog, is a great life! We cannot and should not expect 70 years from them like we would a human counterpart.
Their bodies are not meant for the time frame ours are meant to last.
Talk with your vet, and many university's, vet colleges offer counseling before and after.
You are in my prayers.
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  #9  
Old December 16th, 2008, 11:32 AM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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Thank you all for the kind thoughts and advice. Diet is the only thing
recommended for the kidney problem. Unfortunately he is allergic to corn so it is very hard to find any food without corn. I cook him hamburger with a little potato and carrot in it or give him chicken or beef. He takes a vitamin supplement. I keep him on the lowest diazipem does 1/4 tablet twice a day. That worked good for a few weeks but he has been waking up with a yelp and yesterday had a major seizure. So I upped the does to 1/2 tab twice a day.
He has a cold wet nose and loves to hang on the porch with me and watch the leaves blow around. He is eating and drinking so I hate to cut his life short but am really afraid of another bad seizure. I thought he was a goner yesterday.
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  #10  
Old December 16th, 2008, 11:48 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Scooter2 - my heart goes out to you. Been there too many times and I know the pain and dilemma you are going through.

I cannot comment on when or what is right or rushed or not but I do know that your dog sounds like he is enjoying your company and comfort at this time.

I wish you only the best and strength. Luv him up as you are doing.

I am so very sorry and prayers go out to you both.
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  #11  
Old December 21st, 2008, 03:08 PM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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Update on Scooter.
I have switched to Phenobarbital 1gr/day and he seems to be a bit more lucid than on the diazepam 5mg/day. He did have a mild seizure this morning and is sleeping alot.
I hope as the phenobarbital kicks in more he will be getting around better without bumping into walls. The other option is Potassium Bromide Which the vet said we may go to if the blood test in 6 weeks show problems. About a year ago he ate some onions and we had to have his liver flushed the vet said he would probably not make it but he did and enjoyed another year of quality life. There was a lot of discussion about letting him go then but I resisted. It cost a pretty penny to do the liver flush. But his liver readings are now fine. I am worried about the effect the penobarb may have on his liver.
This time the first vet said He had Kidney failure with a level of creatinine 2.7 the second vet said that until the readings go past 10 that the kidney problem is not life threatening. We also treated him for some digestive parasites because he was constipated that seems gone now also. So now I am guessing he may have a brain tumor. I guess I will ask the Vet how much that will cost to diagnose next time in. He has had 2 massive seizures when I was trying to reduce the dosage of the diazepam to see it the seizures had subsided. As long as I can keep him out of pain, Mobil, hungry and wagging his tail. I will try what I can afford to keep him going. I have found a lot of helpful information and support on this board so I will continue to update so others have access to this story. The first Seizure is very scary! But then you realize they will come out of it. Its still unsettling but not so terrifying.

Last edited by scooter1; December 21st, 2008 at 03:28 PM.
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  #12  
Old December 21st, 2008, 04:01 PM
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mummummum mummummum is offline
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Tonic clonic seizures are scary for those of us who have to stand by and support those we love, no doubt about it. But, what ~ exactly ~ makes you think of a brain tumour ?

You mention food. I'm wondering if any of our friends on the board who have a better understanding of nutrition than do I have an opinion on ketogenic diets ?http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/an...reatment/diet/
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  #13  
Old December 22nd, 2008, 11:58 PM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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Scooter did not make it. He had a final seizure this morning. It was not violent he just froze up and would not come out of it in the minute or two that it would normally take. I took him to the vet and said good bye. he was frozen up the entire time until the second the shot took affect and he relaxed. the vet and I talked while we waited to make sure his heart had stopped. I went out paid for the shot came back picked his warm limp body up and put him in the car it was like he was sleeping in the seat which he had done many times before. When I got home I dug a hole in the back yard put him in a linen bag kissed him good bye and covered him up. The last weeks are defined by these songs. Because his first seizure happened just before the moon Jupiter and Venus made the smiley face. We watched it together on the porch and his last night where we watched Space cowboys together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwRD0S82PX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rAso...eature=related
I will miss my old hair ball!!!!! I really loved him. I so much want him to come and tell me he is OK So I know he is not just compost on this earth. I want him back. There are angles. the Pet doctor is right next to petco and scooter needed a little trim on his head. I stopped in and asked if someone could give him a little trim on his head. I knew he was gone and had a problem with putting him down looking ragged. Kim in the back said she would do it. We both worked on him to make him cute. I had a problem putting him down not looking great. I knew it was coming. she took care of it and did not even ask for money.

Last edited by scooter1; December 23rd, 2008 at 01:13 AM.
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  #14  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 12:34 AM
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badger badger is offline
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I am so sorry you lost your Scooter. He is at peace now and all those beautiful memories will remain. Lucky you being able to bury him close by (and at this time of year!). I have not yet had this experience - at least as an adult - but even after seeing off nameless strays, I've always hated giving them up.

Can we have a picture?
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 01:22 AM
Karin Karin is offline
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I am so very sorry for your loss.

Rainbow Bridge:

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent; His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown...
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  #16  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 01:57 AM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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Tonight will be a long night. He will never again take my side of the bed or push against me to keep warm.

Last edited by scooter1; December 23rd, 2008 at 02:07 AM.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:47 AM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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[IMG][/IMG]
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 03:22 AM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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Coaly a black cat my first pet. My Dad dresses up as a black on Halloween and came to the door and took the entire bowel of candy from my mom.
Patches my dad picked up in Turkey and flew him to us in a Navy light bomber across the Mediterranean to Spain.
Buffy a Cocker inherited with my wife,after 8 years taken down by a coyote in the back yard.
Then scooter. after Buf, i said no more pets. but my daughter talked my wife into a visit to spca during a Thanksgiving visit. They were outside the spca and a young lady handed scooter to my wife and said please take him I can't take him in. she took him. He was shaved clean, the ugliest dog you might imagine even pigeon toed. he freaked himself out in the mirror. but look what he turned into. My worst nightmare. more grooming, but luckily he never had fleas. He took many road trips with me and even took a trip to Belize. I love him and miss him. I am thinking I will take 2 golden retrievers that my daughter has and cannot really take care of for the moment to fill the void. I was hoping the money I was spending would be my Christmas present to keep my buddy alive for a little while longer but that was not to be.

Last edited by scooter1; December 23rd, 2008 at 03:49 AM.
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  #19  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 07:51 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Oh Scooter I am so sorry . Your baby is now at peace and is running as he did when he was a young pup. You gave him the best life he could have asked for and he loved you for it.


Scooter
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
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Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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Last edited by Love4himies; December 23rd, 2008 at 12:29 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 07:55 AM
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:sad::sad::sad: So sorry to hear about Scooter. It is obvious you really loved him and were ready to do whatever it took. And in the end you did :sad:

It sounds like he had a LONG loving life...more than most.
Scooter
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 07:56 AM
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Scooter

Please take some comfort in this poem. It is one of my favourites.

MAY I GO

by Susan A. Jackson

May I go now?
Do you think the time is right?
May I say goodbye to pain filled days
and endless lonely nights?

I've lived my life and done my best,
an example tried to be.
So can I take that step beyond
and set my spirit free?

I didn't want to go at first,
I fought with all my might.
But something seems to draw me now
to a warm and loving light.

I want to go. I really do.
It's difficult to stay.
But I will try as best I can
to live just one more day.

To give you time to care for me
and share your love and fears.
I know you're sad and afraid,
because I see your tears.

I'll not be far, I promise that,
and hope you'll always know
that my spirit will be close to you
wherever you may go.

Thank you so for loving me.
You know I love you, too.
That's why it's hard to say goodbye
and end this life with you.

So hold me now just one more time
and let me hear you say,
because you care so much for me,
you'll let me go today.

Dedicated to everyone who has ever had to put down a beloved dog.

Author: Susan A. Jackson
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We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
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  #22  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 09:53 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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I am so very sorry for your loss.

Scooter and run free.
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  #23  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:18 AM
t.pettet t.pettet is offline
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trying to decide

My condolences on your loss of Scooter.
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  #24  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:48 PM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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I have moved from grief to anger. Do you suppose its ok to hate God for awhile?
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Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:06 PM
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Mat&Murph Mat&Murph is offline
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I am soo very sorry for your loss!! It is never easy to say goodbye.. My heart goes out to you!!
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  #26  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:28 PM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
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I have moved from grief to anger. Do you suppose its ok to hate God for awhile?
yeah but remember he/she gave you scooter and all your other animals to love also
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  #27  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:35 PM
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Frenchy Frenchy is offline
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Originally Posted by scooter1 View Post
I have moved from grief to anger. Do you suppose its ok to hate God for awhile?
Yep , I think it is. even if it's not ok , it is your right. I for one , totally understand.

I am so very sorry for your loss
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  #28  
Old December 24th, 2008, 12:57 AM
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Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
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I am so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you right now.
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  #29  
Old December 24th, 2008, 12:31 PM
scooter1 scooter1 is offline
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Thank you all for the support!
I have realized its just plain selfish on my part to be angry.
So I am trying to get over that.
Have a Merry Christmas and give your pet a great big hug for me and Scooter.
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  #30  
Old December 24th, 2008, 01:01 PM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter1 View Post
I have moved from grief to anger. Do you suppose its ok to hate God for awhile?
We all understand what you are going through . You will go through all sorts of feelings and as long as you aren't taking your anger out on others, then it is OK.
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs)

Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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