Dog Doesn't Like Raw Meat!

[raw]

Ok This is starting to drive me up a wall... Sorry for the long post, I'll try to keep it as to the point as possible.

I've just adopted a 5 year old Saint Bernard, whos overweight and was used to being left out gross amounts of wetted Iams mixed with rice and eating kibbles and bits from the can.

First I tried a little ground beef, she wouldn't eat that... Even from my hand, she'd take it and spit it out. I figured OK, so maybe she doesn't like beef. I tried some ground turkey, same thing. So I fasted her for a couple days, and finally she ate some turkey...

I finally got her to eat some ground up chicken necks and backs on the third day she must have been getting pretty hungry... She RELUCTANTLY ate that out of her bowl. But I managed to feed her pretty well on that over the next few days a couple lbs a day. Till the butcher ran out of that stuff...

So then I bought some whole chicken necks and backs, She wouldn't eat them, turned up her nose and walked off, so not wanting to give up. I fasted her again for a day... Success! She again reluctantly crunched down on one of the chicken backs. I tried giving her another one later that day and she refused... So I froze it overnight and then she ate another one, in the morning yay!

Now I've moved onto whole chicken legs, with part of the back still attached -- hoping I can move her up to eating a whole chicken... And I'm having even more trouble. I give her one and she goes and tries to bury/hide it in the backyard!!! So still not giving in I froze them, and she finally ate one frozen yesterday. But I tried to give her another one today and she again goes and trys to bury it in the yard again Now I KNOW she can eat these, I just saw her eat one. But I dont want to keep going through this rigamarole. She's obviously hungry.

Should I keep fasting her? I mean its only been a week. Is she trying to train me to give her more kibbles n bits? I can't keep on going through this, god forbid what's going to happen when I start trying to mix in organ meat, tripe, and blended veggies or whatever into her meals if she doesn't even like meat to begin with?!? I cant afford to throw away half the meals cuz she decides she doesn't like them, and I really don't want to have to grind up ALL her meat & bones. I know her teeth work fine, she just ate a whole chicken leg yesterday...

I've been exercising her well too, to try and work-up an appetite, she's been getting 2-3 walk/jogs a day. She's a very active dog with healthy hips for a large breed.

She has been drinking TONS of water at least... which makes me happy. She has a terrible looking coat and bad allergies right now, she obviously needs a raw diet, but she's just being a picky eater. I've had a dog in the past who was half her size and chowed right through the same frozen chicken, so I know the meat is good, I've been feeding grassfed beef, freerange chicken... and this isnt my first time around the block feeding raw...

I saw some wild salmon on sale for 2.69 a pound yesterday I'm gonna go pick one up and see if she'll eat that.

any suggestions would be appreciated.

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by raw

I finally got her to eat some ground up chicken necks and backs on the third day she must have been getting pretty hungry... She RELUCTANTLY ate that out of her bowl. But I managed to feed her pretty well on that over the next few days a couple lbs a day. Till the butcher ran out of that stuff...

I'll leave the rest of your questions to those with more experience feeding dogs, but one thing I'm concerned about is how unbalanced a diet of chicken necks and backs is. I realize your plan is to eventually feed whole chicken, but in the meantime the necks and backs have waaaaay too much bone and not nearly enough meat. Your going to end up with a constipated dog if you continue this regime. At the very least, try feeding some canned food to augment the high bone content.

[raw]

well the point is, she doesnt even really like ground meat, beef, lamb, or chicken OR turkey very much at all. She has to be coaxed into eating them... My other dog would scarf it all down in a heartbeat and come back begging for more.

Of course I'll balance out her diet with plenty of other things besides chicken necks! (which are a good source of glucosamine) They happen to be pretty easy bones to crunch as well...


She's getting used to it though, She liked the salmon once it was thawed!

I think the problem is she has bad teeth, i just looked at her teeth and they look terrible. I feel really bad now for making her crunch on frozen chicken legs. I cant blame her trying to bury them one bit now.

Looks like I'm going to have to invest in a meat grinder so i can grind up whole chickens : She's just a picky one I guess... Spoiled too long on kibbles n' bits

anyone know of a good meat grinder that can do a whole chicken?

[Melinda]

my dog won't eat raw, but I don't force her, she loves her bone marrows but won't eat raw beef...so she has performatrin....

[shirley1011]

Our Jack..the black shepherd didn't buy into the raw either...he refuses anything with bone..although likes his beef bones...but he likes ground meats but I have to heat in the micro just to take the chill off.....weird!

[Goldfields]

I know this won't help you, it is only of interest perhaps. When my first cattle dog was young she was the most picky eater you could find. We used to kill our own cattle back then for the freezer and rump steak (raw or cooked) was even refused. Didn't like chicken either. Anyway, a local vet said he had a tonic that would make her eat, it was something the vets at the Sydney uni' had concocted, combining things they thought dogs needed. Well, bingo! She started eating and never looked back. I got some for someone else and it worked for their super fussy dog too. Only trouble is that first the vet wouldn't disclose what the ingredients were, then he shifted to a bigger town, away from the area, and finally we heard that the poor chap had committed suicide, so the secret went with him. Anyway, it makes you wonder, what could it be that these dogs are lacking?

[MerlinsHope]

Iams and kibbles n' bits either.

What you need to know is that the food you've been giving your dog has polluted her taste buds over to the "other side".
Your dog doesn't know that this meat you are offering him is a food source. The only food source he's become conditioned to, is the artificially scented and flavoured one in the bag.

Feeding a dog that type of food is like feeding child extreme sugar laced breakfast cereal for a long time, then all of a sudden, you take it away and try to feed the child boiled carrots and potatoes.

Your dog is addicted to the sugar and salt in those commercial foods and weaning a dog off is no easy task. As a matter of fact, some dogs actually physically go through sugar withdrawal.

You can take the raw food and coat it with positive foods such as green tripe ( that usually always works), or with strong smelling bacon grease, bacon bits, butter, grated old parmesan cheese, scramble eggs. There are loads of ways of "upping" the unknown smell of raw foods without having to resort back to the original commercial foods you were using.

Contrary to what someone mentioned here, it's ok if your dog fasts sporadically. Dress the food up, put it down and if he doesn't eat it take it away until next meal time. Don't give him treats or anything else. Ultimately he'll eat it. It's no more complicated than that. A hungry dog is not a fussy dog and a dog that will be more accepting of a diet change - and more willing to accept that you won't buy into his stubborness.

I get so tired of hearing this. ( and honestly, not wanting to sound like I'm complaining). We take in over 300 dogs a year and they ALL eat raw food from the moment they get here. They aren't forced, but they quickly realize there aren't any other options, just like the dogs who were fed wonderful food then end up in a shelter. If they want to survive, they'll eat the poor shelter food. Some gravitate quicker than others, but essentially within 10 days they are all eating normally.

Dogs eat food in the following order
- Smell
- Texture
- Taste

so if the "smell" is there, the rest is easy.
You don't need gravy and for gawd's sakes please take your dog off that kibble.

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by MerlinsHope

What you need to know is that the food you've been giving your dog has polluted her taste buds over to the "other side".


for gawd's sakes please take your dog off that kibble.

The OP wasn't responsible for feeding the dog that stuff, it was the previous owners.

[raw]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

The OP wasn't responsible for feeding the dog that stuff, it was the previous owners.

Thank You

If you'd read the thread at all Merlin You would have noticed that I just adopted this dog a week ago. I sure hope you don't greet other raw feeding newcomers in the same manner, as it offended me and I didn't even feed her any iams I have been feeding my dogs on raw food for years before this, even the idea of a "premium kibble" has me disgusted. I've held out with the food much much much longer than your average dog owner would... If she didn't eat something i'd pick it up and try again in the evening. She ate so little for the first week she was here she started getting shaky in the legs, very low energy, and completely depressed (signs of hypoglycemia) and was losing weight FAST which had me concerned. Its not healthy to lose weight that fast, the only thing i could force into her gullet was straight protein and that's tough on kidney's that have been ravaged by iams for years.

In fact I had thrown the Iams they gave me when I adopted her in the Garbage first thing. However I'm glad I kept the cans of kibbles n' bits. There is some kind of smoky artificial flavor smell that she just ****ing goes nuts for... Would barely touch raw food before. You seem to be right about smell being first on their list though. A dab' l' do ya of the kibbles n' bits gravy, which REEKS to high heavens. I hope I can wean her off that completely , stinks up my fridge For now though, I'm just glad she's getting some real food.

She ate another sizeable meal of raw salmon and oats this morning with only a drizzle of the kibbles n' bits gravy. I also tossed some homemade lamb stock thick with lamb grease... Time to order some tripe and organ meat as soon as I get paid She didn't lick her bowl clean this time but I' still concider it a success, considering I used a lot less of the K n' B than yesterday, and the meal was sizeable.

I wish I had another dog here to show her how its really done :lol: My newfoundland would much down a whole frozen chicken no sweat. Shucks he loved his veggies and oats more that the meat it seemed like. Start 'em off young and they love it.

[MerlinsHope]

If you'd read the thread at all Merlin You would hav

Well, I'm not perfect. I read these things on the 'fly' sometimes, on this forum, usually after the prompting of someone else, and it's usually late at night ( not that it's an excuse.. .but it's an excuse)

So I'll re-phrase my comment then:
" For gawd's sakes, please take that dog off of kibbles and bits gravy".
And what's with the oats?

[raw]

Originally Posted by MerlinsHope

Well, I'm not perfect. I read these things on the 'fly' sometimes, on this forum, usually after the prompting of someone else, and it's usually late at night ( not that it's an excuse.. .but it's an excuse)

So I'll re-phrase my comment then:
" For gawd's sakes, please take that dog off of kibbles and bits gravy".
And what's with the oats?

Few oats never killed anyone. Whats with your attitude?

if you wanna bone to pick I'll give you the email address of the previous owners

[mhikl]

I can't stand it! I have to jump in, even though I have not finished all the posts; which I will when I finish my rant.

Just stick with it, raw. You pet will get used to it and you are a genius to figure out the "SALT" thing. I was going to suggest it if the topic didn't come up by the time I finished all the posts.

And hear is why:

On a carbohydrate diet, humans at least, (and probably animals) retain salt and liquids. It is called edema. And then when the human, suffering edema, goes on a low, very low carb diet, s/he drinks more water and passes a lot of urine. That's why on Atkins or most restricted diets, you lose a lot of weight the first few days. When I put my Sadie on the BARF diet 9 days ago, for two days she peed like the proverbial horse. Now she's back to normal.

As long as you drink or the dog drinks a lot of water, the salt will be expressed. Potentially, the only problem is an imbalance of the electrolytes, potassium in particular. This can be countered with the use of half and half, a salt product which is mixed with potassium. And if you really want to make sure you are keeping your electrolytes in balance, take magnesium and calcium. (Never take calcium tablets with out taking magnesium.) The point is that the 4 are intertwined.

My mum can't keep her electrolytes in balance without large amounts of magnesium. Otherwise she goes into hospital and has to have potassium intravenously. (We are all different and some need more of one than another body might.) I doctor I knew told me that if everyone took magnesium, we'd clear the hospitals (and I don't think he meant by filling the morgue).

There is too much bs on TV regarding salt being bad.What is bad is sugar aka carbs. The digestion of sugar (carbohydrates are nothing more than sugars) takes a lot of calcium and remember, there's a balance between the 4 electrolytes -sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. (Children can have new teeth coming through with cavities because they get too much sugar and the body uses so much of it it digest the carbs/sugar that there isn't enough for the teeth - teeth and bones can be leached of calacium)

By all means salt your dogs meat but make sure that carbs are not a big part of the diet. Just make sure the water bowl is always full, but you already have said you do that.

Here is another quick point. You said your dog was overweight so don't worry about a few shed pounds. I can see why the pet might not want to eat the stuff if it is frozen (again, I still have to finish reading all posts so someone may have said this). Frozen has no smell (I understand that is all dogs have, smell- they don't taste supposedly.) I nuke a chicken neck 30 seconds (I have a very old second hand microwave which warms you if you stand too close - it's not powerful or fast - but it looks way too cook to get rid of). The neck is not even warm, but it is not frozen. Then spray it with a saline solution (cheap spray bottles from dollar store) or dip it in a salt bath and Bob's your pups uncle.

As a pork chop dog (I have one too), I am sure your pup will give up and let you dictate its needs.

Cheers and best wishes in your quest.
mhikl

Now I must finish your thread.

[erykah1310]

Just a quick question..
How much excercise is the dog getting?
I have one here that if not excercised will not eat. No matter what I put in front of her.

Also, searing the meat is also a great idea, I have no comment on the salt, I have never considered feeding salt to my dogs and have been feeding raw for 5 years now. HOWEVER, I will say I have seen them at the horses mineral block from time to time taking a little lick so???