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  #31  
Old November 18th, 2004, 10:49 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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I thought all the replies here were very educational, informative and civil. I have no idea where you see "anger"..?? (except from you)

You seem to take offense that anyone would suggest that a dog should be titled and health tested before breeding, and I'm not understanding that, as that is par for the course if anyone wants to be responsible. With 4 children, it will be difficult to do the show circuit with your dog to make sure she is breeding quality. And if you have no intention of doing that, that makes you yet another backyard breeder. That is merely a fact and NOT a judgement.

YOU said:
Quote:
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
But I guess it's not, if it is not what you want to hear. And you never told us what makes your dog so outstanding from a breeding point of view?

Quote:
I know all of you have animals but you should put your money where your mouth is and rescue as many as financially possible.
I don't know who you are addressing, but many of us do just that and even for those who don't, they are doing their part by spay/neutering their pets and not adding to the problem by breeding dogs who are already so overpopulated that MANY must die merely for the lack of a home.

I hope you will take the time to read this with an open mind:
You want to breed your dog?
  #32  
Old November 18th, 2004, 10:52 PM
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No, sweety. The water in Ontario is fine. Um, were we reading the same thread? You were warned at the beginning that your question was not going to be popular, and still (IMHO) people were quite polite to you (until your last post, that is ). Yet, because you didn't get the answers you wanted to hear, people were being "rude and immature"? Intersting perspective. I'd like to see your responses when people start questioning your breeding practices.

Just my two cents' worth - if you are truly as well-versed in your breed and the responsibilities of animal husbandry and caretaking as you claim to be, why did you come to a public forum full of complete strangers and ask "how do I do it?"? Just curious.

PS. I'm not against breeding in general. I just think the only people who should do it are those who have been researching their chosen breed for years, have taken many courses on animal husbandry and welfare, have successfully raised, trained and shown multiple examples of their chosen breed and are willing to spend the rest of their lives caring for and rescuing these animals at great personal expense.

PPS. Yes, my pup IS a rescue and she IS spayed! My cat IS a rescue and he IS neutered!
  #33  
Old November 18th, 2004, 11:14 PM
corilayn corilayn is offline
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A sense of humor is supposed to include just that, humor, not condescending,bragging, arrogant etc. It's great you think that your dog is the best and all but not to the extent that you believe that all breeding should END with your dog.
As for reading what I want to hear....no I read what all had to say. The problem is that some of you are coming off like you are on some "high horse" and that because you have rescued a couple of animals you have the right to plead the case of all. I understand the plight of the SPCA in my area and HAVE volunteered my time, and my sons. And you are right, I dont think that I'll find what I need in this GENERAL forum... if I wanted a lecture (which I dont need) about the need for rescuing animals I'd have gone to the SPCA website or a forum of the same nature.
  #34  
Old November 18th, 2004, 11:22 PM
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Actually, a lot of these people do foster and/or rescue, so yes, they do have the right to plead the case for all.

The rest of us have learned enough around this "general" forum to know that we'd like to put a stop to the indiscriminate, back-yard-breeding and puppy mills that abound on this planet. That's where we're coming from when we try to persuade you not to breed your dog. Sorry if we've ruffled your feathers. We're just trying to do our part, in every little way we can.
  #35  
Old November 18th, 2004, 11:26 PM
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Rofl you're entirely too sensitive. It was funny! My Sneaky is perfect and the best dog in the world. In my eyes. Most people would have responded with the usual "no mine is" but whatever.

And what a dream! An end to all breeding?! Even for a time?! Stop teasing me. I'm not sure I can take it. That, my dear, would be paradise as it would mean an end to the suffering of millions upon millions of animals. All dogs are mutts anyway. I'd happily sacrifice some of the newer mutations if it meant a home for every dog. Of course the near impossibility of that happening is almost hilarious in nature its sad.

And so, given that, I cling to my secondary hope. That one day, some day, only those specifically licenced to breed would be allowed to do so. Required showing, required rescuing, required apprenticeships for years at a time. Required donations to animal welfare societies, required fixing of all pet quality animals. Required education! What a concept: A degree in dog breeding! Investing years at a time in the science before even being allowed to step near two unfixed animals. Ah yes. One can dream. No more newspaper ads for free puppies. No more signs on the sides of roads reading pure bred whatevers, year round! No more random people wanting to duplicate their dog because they look cute in a bow and can fetch well.

What I wouldn't give.

Dee
  #36  
Old November 18th, 2004, 11:29 PM
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Nicely put.
  #37  
Old November 18th, 2004, 11:36 PM
corilayn corilayn is offline
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I can honestly respect where you are all coming from on the 'rescuing' issue and having years and years of educational training before even thinking of owning/breeding these animals.
Just an off topic (but on an equal plane) question. Do you hold yourself and others accountable in the same regards to children? You know...with having being tested for the possibility to diseases that are hereditary, being certified in CPR and other medical fields and having schooling in child physicology etc? I know that alot of you dont see the corrolation between the 2 but in actuality it makes sense. I'm just wondering if you hold people and yourselves to the same standards when it comes to populating this planet. Considering that it is human beings that are the ones abusing and causing the problems of the animal race.
  #38  
Old November 19th, 2004, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corilayn
Just an off topic (but on an equal plane) question. Do you hold yourself and others accountable in the same regards to children? You know...with having being tested for the possibility to diseases that are hereditary, being certified in CPR and other medical fields and having schooling in child physicology etc? I know that alot of you dont see the corrolation between the 2 but in actuality it makes sense.
Let's just reverse that question for a moment... would you breed your children for a profit or because they are adorable and friends would like to have one ??

If it makes sense (in your opinion) one way...does it make any sense in reverse??

Sounds like a warped sense of logic no
  #39  
Old November 19th, 2004, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corilayn
I can honestly respect where you are all coming from on the 'rescuing' issue and having years and years of educational training before even thinking of owning/breeding these animals.
Just an off topic (but on an equal plane) question. Do you hold yourself and others accountable in the same regards to children? You know...with having being tested for the possibility to diseases that are hereditary, being certified in CPR and other medical fields and having schooling in child physicology etc? I know that alot of you dont see the corrolation between the 2 but in actuality it makes sense. I'm just wondering if you hold people and yourselves to the same standards when it comes to populating this planet. Considering that it is human beings that are the ones abusing and causing the problems of the animal race.
feel like i'm responding to a troll but hey it's late, can't sleep. why not.
that's why i never had children. no one could ever assure me his papers were authentic (turns out he was a mutt)
besides, there are enough children in this world that need love and support.
sound familiar corilayn?
  #40  
Old November 19th, 2004, 12:35 AM
corilayn corilayn is offline
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I was talking about what some people here require of anyone to BREED. Meaning that before YOU breed, you must be qualified in every sense of the word. Not about the selling of the animal. What if I wanted to breed and keep all the puppies....
You still have not answered my question but nice diversion... re read the question about the qualifications of breeding ...do you pass the test? DO you hold yourself and others accountable in the same respects...not about selling.
  #41  
Old November 19th, 2004, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corilayn
I was talking about what some people here require of anyone to BREED. Meaning that before YOU breed, you must be qualified in every sense of the word. Not about the selling of the animal. What if I wanted to breed and keep all the puppies....
You still have not answered my question but nice diversion... re read the question about the qualifications of breeding ...do you pass the test? DO you hold yourself and others accountable in the same respects...not about selling.

well i know i wouldn't breed for profit or for my own selfish reasons regardless of my qualifications or lack thereof. that includes breeding of ALL/ANY species
  #42  
Old November 19th, 2004, 12:49 AM
corilayn corilayn is offline
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Reading what on wants to hear?? Not breeding for profit, never said I was...
  #43  
Old November 19th, 2004, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corilayn
What if I wanted to breed and keep all the puppies....
If you cannot afford a 100$ adoption fee. You cannot afford to keep the puppies.

Also...There are many topics that make for interesting controversial debates. However you must understand that we are not trying to win a debate. You were forewarned that this was not breeder forum at the onset. It is a pet forum. I don't see what you have to gain by trying so hard to win your point. In the end you will still not have the answer to the question you originally came here to have answered.
  #44  
Old November 19th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
Do you hold yourself and others accountable in the same regards to children?
Well, when millions of abandoned children are being killed in shelters here every year, then yes - I would say people should have to have a license to precreate.

And trying to educate someone about the overpopulation of dogs and to educate them about responsible breeding is not what I call "getting on a high horse."

You asked - we told you.
  #45  
Old November 19th, 2004, 01:47 AM
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Well now wasn`t that refreshing LMAO

OMGosh
Darn those there puppies are cute how much to buy one???

Good Lordy Gordy!

Here we have a classic case of someone who figured that because their friends want a puppy "just like thier dog" we should have a litter! What a concept!
You know what? I find this rather amusing............. maybe a lack of sleep but hey what the heck right?
I have a Dogue de Bordeaux ( as most of you who read these forums already know ) they are considered a "rare breed" as there are not many around............ and a female at that. She is 2 1/2 years old and has champion bloodlines on both sides. She is a wonderful example of the breed, hips have been checked as well as all the rest of the medical testing that needs to be done........ however, she does not hold championships herself as there are no dog shows anywhere near where I live. I have been told to breed her because she is such an excellent example of the breed........... and you don`t find shelters full of them.
Okay where the heck is she going with this right????
My sweetie pie will not be bred, there is no point. But to get another Bordeaux means forking out a lot of money...........but we will do it again.

I understand that there are a lot of dogs in shelters that need homes, I used to rehabilitate rottweillers and foster them.

I am sold on Bordeaux`s now that I have owned one,,,,,,,,,,,,, and I doubt I will ever have another breed in my home.

Now before I get strangled for saying that I know we should all be fostering and rescuing dogs from the shelters, but personally, I want to have a puppy I can raise and train, I want a certain breed and I am willing to pay the breeder for that specific dog.

That being said, I would rescue a dog from a shelter if it were a DOGUE. Call me selfish but that is how I feel.

I DO NOT condone breeding your Dalmation because people want to have a puppy from her.............. don`t we all want a PUPPY?
You know what the problem is with most people who want a puppy? They seem to forget that they GROW UP, and they chew up your favorite things, they LEAK and leave presents for you on the floor until you teach them proper behavior, they nip, they are holy terrors and IMHO that is why they end up in the shelters!!!

I agree that if your friends really want a dog like yours tell them to check out the local pound. I am sure they can afford the $100.00 for the adoption fee and they will be saving another "perfect example of the breed" from certain death.

You said you were going to breed your dog so people could have puppies correct? You also stated that you can`t afford the $100.00 adoption fee for a shelter dog nor could your friends..........hmmmmmm do you have ANY IDEA what your expenses are for breeding? I can tell you it will be a whole lot more than $100.00!!! Heck just feeding your female and her vet checks will cost you more than that so maybe think it over.

Please don`t come here asking us to give you a list of stud dogs that breeders will let breed your dog for free............ THAT is stepping out of reality by a long long stretch.

Just in case you were wondering take a look at this...........
She would probably make really nice puppies but she makes a better pet
and you know what? She doesn`t need to have a litter of pups to have a full life with a purpose she is fufilling her purpose SHE IS OUR MEATHEAD
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  #46  
Old November 19th, 2004, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
I would rescue a dog from a shelter if it were a DOGUE. Call me selfish but that is how I feel.
Why would that make you selfish? She's a beaut!


Corilayn... you said
Quote:
You still have not answered my question but nice diversion...
What about your nice diversions??? So many questions were asked for you to answer about breeding, yet you haven't answered any of them. The only thing you keep saying is that, you'd rescue if you could and you plan to, yada yada... you're going in circles, and coming up with questions irrelevant to this topic.
  #47  
Old November 19th, 2004, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy
If you cannot afford a 100$ adoption fee. You cannot afford to keep the puppies.

Also...There are many topics that make for interesting controversial debates. However you must understand that we are not trying to win a debate. You were forewarned that this was not breeder forum at the onset. It is a pet forum. I don't see what you have to gain by trying so hard to win your point. In the end you will still not have the answer to the question you originally came here to have answered.
I was going to say that, but I guess enough people already have! LOL

Regardless....has this been replied to as of yet? $100.00 is nothing to adopt...it is whatever else comes along after that that can be expensive. Vacs, food, checkups, teeth cleaning...those are just the standart expenses....heaven forbid should anything happen to your puppies, how would you ever afford any extra out of the ordinary expenses?
  #48  
Old November 19th, 2004, 07:46 AM
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Risk factor

There have been many posts regarding the breeding. They don't seem to phase the original poster, merely agitate her. My bottom line with breeding... apart from all the rescue reasons... would be if you love your dog so much why would you risk the possibility of losing her, however slim it may be to having puppies? Anytime an animal or human gives birth there is a risk, so why take it to please some friends? Just an additional thought.
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  #49  
Old November 19th, 2004, 08:04 AM
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Standards re: children.

As was stated, there aren't millions dying in shelters each year due to over population. However, I truly do believe there are requirements for breeding even humans. Do you have the ability and means to care for the child? Are you prepared to make an 80 year commitment? Etc. etc. There ARE bad breeders of children. Should people require a license? Sometimes I wish they did. Realistically no though as the situations are not similar. And, as someone said, they are not identical as one would not have children so they could share their great pedigree with their friends.

To whomever mentioned puppies. To answer your question, no we don't all want puppies. I can atleast vouch for myself. Give me a dog who's eyes speak of experience and personality over a peeing, ball of instinct any day. I outright prefer older dogs and, if given the choice, will always be adopting adult animals. I love trying to unravel their stories as we get to know each other, both bringing a world of experience to the relationship.

Dee
  #50  
Old November 19th, 2004, 08:30 AM
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Good example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delirium
To whomever mentioned puppies. To answer your question, no we don't all want puppies. I can atleast vouch for myself. Give me a dog who's eyes speak of experience and personality over a peeing, ball of instinct any day. I outright prefer older dogs and, if given the choice, will always be adopting adult animals. I love trying to unravel their stories as we get to know each other, both bringing a world of experience to the relationship.

Dee
I really like that explanation. It's a pity that so many people think the reverse when seeking out a new addition to the family.
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  #51  
Old November 19th, 2004, 09:54 AM
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Delirium I agree with you older dogs are the best. I also agree with Dogue I am a huge fan of Mastiffs and probably have a house full if I had the space and will most likely only get another Mastiff or Mossler dog maybe even a Dogue cuz lookin at your cutie she would look really good with my boy. This is my choice of dog but so far all have mine have been rescues, and will continue to be. These dogs from a breeder are very expensive but still end up in rescues and shelters luckily they have very active rescue groups that pull them from shelters as soon as they find out about them. Because like you will be others come from BYB and have health problems and the owners dump them rather than pay the vet bills. Granted some come from reputable breeders and just end up with owners that are losers or did no research into the breed. But does deafness run in your dals lineage because this is one of the most common problems with them and it is not hard to train a deaf dog but most would dump the dog or euthenize for something as minor as this. You need to realize that a lot of genetic problems skip a generation so your dog may be almos as perfect as mine but her litter could have numerous health problems so if you don't know the genetics of this dog breeding her would be irresponsible. Also the costs involved can be staggering if anything goes wrong are you willing to risk your dogs life I certainly wouldn't.
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  #52  
Old November 19th, 2004, 02:46 PM
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Re: What is wrong with you people??? It must be in the water in Ontario.

and: Do you hold yourself and others accountable in the same regards to children?

I am not from Ontario but think people are fine there anyway (Plus, as that silly song goes, Canada is a really big country, lol)

But isn't your comment a little , Ok more than a little rude?

No one here was rude. I certainly tried not to be and to ernestly and sincerely respond to your query. They were merely explaining their opinions.

As to the second question, yes I do hold myself accountable with regard to children. One of my professional designations requires that I notify authorities if I suspect abuse. And I hold myself accountable in terms of ensuring we do not overpopulate the planet either and that I can afford it and understand all the ramifications of parenthood.

I think it is very similar to adopting an animal. And only registered reputable breeders - NOT back yard breeders, puppy and kitten mills - should be allowed to "breed". As mentioned, the reputable breeders will remind potential adopters of the many rescue organizations.

So, unless you have the time and considerable resources to show your dog in the various competitve challenges and shows and if she has all those requisite qualities, only then would I - if I were you - consider it.

This AM, someone said to me - while they knew I plan to neuter Yin Yin (my Seal Point Siamese)- that I should consider placing her in competions since she is so very beautiful and looks so perfect - and while I could afford to do it, I do not really have the time and am not certain I want to subject her to that.

At any rate, I do not think people here are being mean. You asked for opinions and you got them.
  #53  
Old November 19th, 2004, 04:27 PM
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i have nothing to add and dont want to but, the reason you see so much passion here for dogs and not children, is simple, ppl often have the energy and time to only focus on one large cause, everyone has one and around herer it is animals not children that is why this a pets board and not a kids board.


TO DIGRES

re children quote- As was stated, there aren't millions dying in shelters each year due to over population.

well actually that is not true, thousands of chinese baby gilrs die each year because of the one child policy, literllaly shelters filled with beautiful baby girls that are staved to death or die or horrendous disease without any humane or medical treatment (you can buy them for around $10000, pretty cheap for a life). they die every minute of every day, and most go unnoticed (and what do you think will happen for the beijing olympics, how will they clean up this dirty little secret ).

just to straighten that out, sorry for the correction but the plight of those girls is very important to me and to say they dont exist well, i jsut needed to fix that. and god knows what happens in other countries such as those that still have child slave labor policies.
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  #54  
Old November 19th, 2004, 05:29 PM
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What a heated subject. Lets just say my purebred border collie goes in on Tuesday to get fixed. So you know where I stand. Just because you breed your purebred what happens when their pups are bred by their owners who might not know what they are getting into you end up with 101 Dalmations. I worked for a breeder years ago and seen some sad sights, one whole litter lost due to a stupid vet, unlucky pups that just don't make it are you up for that? Also what if the delivery goes bad, big vet bills for a c section especially an emergency in the middle of the night, I would think twice then twice again about what your getting into.
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  #55  
Old November 19th, 2004, 07:14 PM
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Melanie wrote: "i have nothing to add and dont want to but, the reason you see so much passion here for dogs and not children, is simple, ppl often have the energy and time to only focus on one large cause, everyone has one and around herer it is animals not children that is why this a pets board and not a kids board."

I am sure you mean well but how can you know what causes we are all involved in? I for one am deeply committed to childrens' rights!! So, speak for yourself!

(I know everyone here is dedicated to animal issues. But I am sure they have other concerns too.)
  #56  
Old November 19th, 2004, 08:03 PM
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Thank you BMD
I guess if my original post was actually read...other than 'read into' everyone would realize I hadnt made the choice to actually breed her yet. And that people had inquired with me whether I was going to or not because they'd like one. I believe my original post said that we were looking into it....
  #57  
Old November 19th, 2004, 10:26 PM
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I'm sure everyone here 'actually read' your first post, that's why we reacted the way we did. It wasn't too late to change your mind because you said yourself, you were 'looking into it'. Have you made your decision?
  #58  
Old November 20th, 2004, 12:04 AM
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cyber kitten it was an explanatory generalisation about the passion we have here, ie feelings not what you actually do in your life. and yes i was speaking for myself, i couldnt give a rats backside what you are into, but i was meerly trying to be helpful and kind (a lack of it was the inspiration for the comment), just trying to help explain our focus and why ppl get the reaction they do. but what ever, that is what is wrong around here these days, ppl think every comment is directed at them, ppl are so jumpy and take everything as an insult or to heart and that is how it all goes foul.
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  #59  
Old November 20th, 2004, 04:49 AM
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No. still havent made a decision...wasnt looking to do this anywhere in the near future anyway since like I said we're moving in the spring to Penticton. We were just looking into it and it snowballed from there. I rarely jump into anything without 'checking the temperature', besides....the cost of things usually makes us either save up or re-evaluate.
  #60  
Old November 20th, 2004, 02:47 PM
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Re: ppl are so jumpy and take everything as an insult or to heart and that is how it all goes foul.

I am not at all jumpy, just think you need to consider the needs and concerns of others. (Are you not in pscyhology?) I suspect that as we type online - we write very quicly and often say things we would probably never say in the heat of the moment offline, without realizing the consequences of our actions. As you no doubt know, there are intricate studies of this entire subject.

Don't takt it personally. I tell my students much the same thing. We should not generalize in making pronouncements. It is something it sometimes takes time to learn!
I mean only the best intentions!
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