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  #31  
Old January 5th, 2005, 07:00 PM
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I agree lil kirk I work hard for my money and resent the fact that some crack addict is getting high on my dime. I want to buy things and should be able to but instead we give the government up to 50% of our cheques so they can waste it then they want more at the end of the year. Maybe they should consider who really needs the help and who doesn't. I would not resent it quite so much if it was being used wisely, but thanks if you are going to use my money to buy your crack I would rather be buying a digital camera.
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  #32  
Old January 5th, 2005, 07:09 PM
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No I don't think it's okay she had this many kids but there wouldn't be this many if help had been given to her long before the second one came along.
If we all waited for help to be GIVEN to us....we'd be one sorry bunch of cry-asses now wouldn't we???

I'll give her help for her addiction--FINE! Just stop crankin out the innocent children!!!
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  #33  
Old January 5th, 2005, 08:33 PM
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The judge should NOT have ordered her not to have more children. She's already proven she is incapable of following the rules. He should have ordered her spayed!
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  #34  
Old January 5th, 2005, 09:29 PM
lil_kirk lil_kirk is offline
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Hehehehe! so true everyone...so true!

Speaking to someone's comment about giving these people help---I do not believe that giving them money is the right answer. From my previous experiences working in a bank, I would venture to guess that at least 80 per cent of those on social assistance are not educated or determined enough to appropriately budge their cheques. A single person sharing a lower end apartment with another person--receiving a 550 dollar cheque should be able to live on this money. Rent is split in half, groceries in half---they shouldn't have extra money to dine out all the time, shop at the Gap and drive cars, go on trips, etc. Welfare is NOT supposed to be enough money for you to want to stay on it---if it was we'd have an even bigger problem!

If these people are to be helped perhaps we should recall Mike Harris' previous suggestion for Workfare---give them the skills and abilities to actually get ahead instead of giving them money to flatline.
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  #35  
Old January 5th, 2005, 09:45 PM
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I agree with a lot that has been said about this woman. But being ordered not to have any more kids probably won't stop her.

On the issue of welfare... I got pregnant at a young age and actually needed help at one point. I was lucky enough to live with my mom in the beginning, otherwise we wouldn't have had a pot to piss in. I applied for welfare for my family, and was denied on all apps. My husband had found a part time job at Taco Bell making $5/hr to support a family and we were told we made too much money to qualify.
At the same time my sister had a friend on welfare driving a benz and buying shrimp every week with her food stamps... something's not quite right here.
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  #36  
Old January 5th, 2005, 10:06 PM
lil_kirk lil_kirk is offline
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The system is flawed. If you work for a living--even making a small paycheque--you are penalized for trying, for trying to move up. If you sit back and do nothing you are given health care, medication, education (in some cases especially if you go to prison), money, access to special programs, etc... If you make even a measley earning, you're denied.

The system is simply just so flawed--and from my experience now working in politics--it will never change.
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  #37  
Old January 5th, 2005, 10:24 PM
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I really did not want to get into this debate but it saddens me. I find myself angry at the woman herself, at the welfare system in her state and alas, somewhat concerned about the attitudes expressed in this forum about people on welfare.

I have treated many fine young children and their families who happened to be on welfare. Some families actually had to seek social assistance because they needed a health card - so their cancer medications are covered. I myself have referred people to the Minister of Health for assistance. So I really think it is mean spirited to judge everyone on welfare with the same brush.

I too get angry when I see people at the end of the month purchasing convenience foods and cigarettes and cringe when people are on a disability pension and have less wrong with them than me (I have a somewhat serious medical issue but continue to work 70 hour weeks but that is my choice) But the fact remains that many people need and use social assitance payments to eek out a survival and in New Brunswick anyway, it seems to be not the best one.

I just hope that this Judge - in seeking a solution for this one irresponsible woman (who we really do know the background of save for a newspaper report and the last time I posted a newspaper report, it was trashed on this Board so did the "press" get it right this time?) - does not return us to the Dark ages when women really were sterilized by a court order. She needs addiction treatment but she may have already had it -we do not know the case history. What is her level of education, was she abused as a child, is she intellectually challenged? For me, there is too much missing information to make a judgement call. Clearly, she is a poster child for bad motherhood and I dare say the ACLU will have a field day with the ruling. She needs to be a responsible person and that will take much much more than any court order. And I worry very much about her children in the foster care system which is another band aid solution that does not solve the problem, sigh!!

It is such a tough issue and the sad fact is - as my mom, who rues the lack of plagrounds in her Florida neighbourhood characterized as it is with so many seniors, we as a society do not care for our children as well as we should!! It is illegal for the Judge to order her to have surgery though he should have sent her to an addictions center - though I bet there is a long waiting list!!

Anyway, I am not going to solve that issue. I just do not think every single individual, especially innocent children who through no fault of their own learn the "welfare" system better than the most officious social worker, who happens to be on welfare is leading a good life or is there because they want to be.
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  #38  
Old January 5th, 2005, 10:47 PM
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I am a little shocked I still read some of you believe people on wellfare,drive Benzes and eat shrimp for dinner
You should really focus on our wasteful government and look into how THEY spend our tax-dollars and it has nothing to do with people on well-fare.
Harris workfare-program did not pan out,because it would have been slave-labour,who in there right mind,if they are able to work,would work for $500/month??
Canada should concentrate on kids,just like in Europe,where day-care is avaliable for everyone(at least Sweden and France),often single moms don't even have to pay,just so they can work and better themselves.
I myself looked after two little girls when we lived in Sweden,before I could do it I had to take a lenghty course to get a child-care diploma.I was payed by the government and the single moms payed nothing.
Our biggest problem with moms on wellfare is expensive day-care...and loong waiting-lists for subsidized day-care.But of course,there is no money to be made on free day-care..that's where we here in North America are failing the kids!
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  #39  
Old January 6th, 2005, 07:55 AM
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Better to work for $500 a month than get the money for free! I lived in one of the towns where they were going to implement workfare, and I remember one of the jobs was working for the city in the maintenance department, cutting city lawn. One of the comments was, "That's humiliating forcing us to do that!" I also remember a couple of the city workers who did the job didn't feel too happy that they were being told they should be humiliated for doing thier job. Yes, heaven forbid they should have to work for thier money! I'll believe there are no jobs the day I open the want ads and see blank pages. And although I don't think people on welfare drive Benzs (I do know a few abuse stories almost as ridiculous), plenty of them have cars. I'm so glad my tax dollars are paying for that, especially after I spent a year roller-blading around town because I couldn't afford my car, and after the people who work who can't afford a car are taking city transit. I don't have a big problem with people who are on mother's allowance. If you have one kid, fine. If, while on welfare, you have another, okay, mistakes happen, but give your head a shake. Three? No way. I grew up surrounded by people who used kids as a source of income. I knew of one girl who was kicked out of her home because she wouldn't get pregnant to bring in more money to the house. I knew another who's mom was still running her own baby factory, so when her 17 told her boyfriend she wanted a kid, the mom got angry because she would get her own cheques cut back. I know hundreds of these stories, and they disgust me. And I have never, ever met a healthy male who needed to be on welfare, but I've met hundreds who are on it.

That being said I completly agree on the point about taking better care of our kids. Instead of throwing money into welfare, put it in a daycare program where it will allow the parents to go to work.
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  #40  
Old January 6th, 2005, 08:51 AM
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This argument and blaming your high taxes on people on assistance has been going on forever,envying people much worse off than most of us,is not a nice human trait.
Instead we should be greatful,we are not in that position,we can work..spend more money on our beloved pets than some people can spend on food for their family.
I consider myself very fortunate and do not begrudge helping others,I rather have our tax-money go to a needy child than paying for Adrienne Clarksons million $$$ trips and my husband pays more in taxes than some people make in a year.We made it,with a little bit of luck,our health and yes,hard work..
So,lets be happy for the opportunities we had and have and that we live in a country where the less fortunate can get help. End of rant
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  #41  
Old January 6th, 2005, 09:00 AM
lil_kirk lil_kirk is offline
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The reaction people have to welfare is very much a personal thing. Depending on your background, experiences with welfare recipients, and/or the government---you may have a different outlook on the situation.

I personally take great issue with it--when it comes to the adults. I do not believe that the money given to them is well spent. Children are not provided for in the way they should when their parents spend all of their allotment on the first day of the month, buying junk food and toys for themselves. This causes many children to go without---and this is a problem.

Ultimately there is so much abuse of the system. I think that is what Schwinn is pointing to as well. Yes, there are certainly people who have the need for social assistance through no fault of their own but no, the system is not perfect so thousands of people sit on welfare who do not need it. I do not have a problem who use the system for what it is for. However, if we could get those particular people off of welfare who shouldn't be there, the government would have far more tax dollars to put into shelters, childcare, medicine, etc. This is why I have a problem.
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  #42  
Old January 6th, 2005, 09:55 AM
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I think in Wisconsin they have a program now where you can get it for one year and that is it..I mean my issue is like i said i have worked since i was 15 when i went to Kentucky i applied at gas stations,video stores etc i could not find a job i apllied for help and was told no...But someone that doesnt try to help themselves can keep bringing kids into this world and keep collecting more and more money,it is bull****.......I have seen lots of people with really bad problems get there a** to work..And the drug thing been there done that and when you hit bottom you know it,you dont need rehab to tell you that,when you are ready to quit it can be done own your own IF you really want it
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  #43  
Old January 6th, 2005, 10:47 AM
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I think the biggest problem is we live in a country where everyone must be coddled, and do not offend the little guy, regardless of right or wrong. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, so much so that I would defend it to the bitter end. I'm just tired of all the political correct crap and not worry about offending people to the extent that nothing gets solved.

As far as welfare, I think that we should be issuing food stamps, and that the rent cheques should be sent directly to the landlords (I have had many friends who have had issues with non-payment from welfare recipients. Unlike non-welfare individuals, they can not be evicted for non-payment. I've known a few people who almost went bankrupt because of this). I used to be a teller, and I've had them cashing thier cheques while talking on thier cell-phones to thier friends (I couldn't afford a cell phone, let alone air time to chat with buddies during the week in prime time), or talk about the show they watched on the specialty channels that I couldn't afford because it cost $60 a month. I've heard the arguement that that would be too humiliating to divey out thier cash for them. Boo freakin' hoo!! Maybe if we didn't protect a lot of these people from having thier feelings hurt, there would be more incentive to get a job! (Don't even get me started on the one person who laughed at how desparate I was to get a job when I applied at McDonald's, only to find out later he was on welfare. Or the girl who went back to school, complaining that how dare the welfare office suggest that her, with a university degree, take a job they were offereing at 7-11. The humiliation!!)
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  #44  
Old January 6th, 2005, 10:54 AM
lil_kirk lil_kirk is offline
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I'm with you Schwinn. I've seen the same things here in Canada. It's atrocious. There has to be a better way to "get these people back on their feet." I too have worked since I was 16--had four jobs in university so that I could pay my way--and am offended by the amount of money taken off my paycheques!!!

I am very surprised that this judge actually banned this woman from having children. I doubt that would ever happen here in Canada---heaven forbid something is taken from someone. Heck, even prisoners get steak dinners, free internet and tv, and university educations!!!! Why shouldn't those outside of the concrete walls soak it up too!!

Ah...I could go on forever about this topic...from the day I realized how this country worked it has urked me and while I believe there is a better way---I have no faith it will ever come to be.
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  #45  
Old January 6th, 2005, 12:22 PM
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Like with most things in life there are abusers,be it wellfare,unemployment etc...and that is what we notice,the word"they"covers everyone unfairly.
Just look at the Pit-Bull issue,how quickly they ALL get painted by the same brush.
I agree,any able-bodied,healthy,strong person should take care of themselves and work.Wellfare is for emergencies......growing up on wellfare,I know as a child how humiliating it can be and my mom was not a smoocher,she was just to ill to work.
I have no idea how anyone can pay car-insurance,phone-bills,cable-TV,rent and food with $560/month(single)they must be magicians
Ok,no more of this garbage....I just consider myself very fortunate to have everything I need and want in life
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  #46  
Old January 6th, 2005, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2
I have no idea how anyone can pay car-insurance,phone-bills,cable-TV,rent and food with $560/month(single)they must be magicians
Like I said, $560/month can go a lot further when you don't pay your rent. I'm not saying that people on welfare don't pay thier rent, just offering one way that helps people to abuse the system. And I don't know a lot of how they are paid. I saw some men cashing cheques that were certainly larger than that, I've met guys with computer systems that could run a small country. But I have a feeling that's a whole other issue as well.

I also think that there are individuals who need the help. I had a girlfriend who's dad was fighting for several years with pension for disability, and when they finally gave him what he deserved, his back pay was enough for him to buy a vehicle and move into a house that actually fit the family. I never asked, but I'm sure he was collecting something in the meantime. And I don't see how a single teenage girl can make it with a child. I'll be the first to admit mistakes can happen (um...'nuff said!), so I do think there is leeway there as well. I don't like to make sweeping generalizations, but I still stand by what I said before...I have yet to meet an able-bodied, healthy person without kids who needed to be on welfare. And unfortunatly, I've met a lot.
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  #47  
Old January 6th, 2005, 05:53 PM
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Your Mom needed help and I am glad she got it. When people and children actually need help, and the adults are unable to work, I think they should get it. No ifs and or buts. I don't think they should be allowed more children tho and I would support mandatory depo shots for them.

Those who can afford cell phones, cable, etc - are not magicians, I refer to them as self employed. There is always a way to make a quick buck, legally or not. And those who are employed also do so, welfare recipients have not cornered that market! I know people on welfare who are much better off financially than I am working fulltime. They work the system tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2
I agree,any able-bodied,healthy,strong person should take care of themselves and work.Wellfare is for emergencies......growing up on wellfare,I know as a child how humiliating it can be and my mom was not a smoocher,she was just to ill to work.
I have no idea how anyone can pay car-insurance,phone-bills,cable-TV,rent and food with $560/month(single)they must be magicians
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  #48  
Old January 6th, 2005, 06:28 PM
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Your right they know how to work the system. There was a couple that lived beside me at the time my rent was close to 1000. a month. I was making really good money back then and they were collecting welfare in fact they were getting 4 cheques a month. One day the postman asked me how many people lived next door and I said 2 he said are you sure, yeah. I did not know at that point they were on welfare. He reported them because they are suppose to if they suspect abuses. Well 6 months later they were still getting there 4 cheques for sitting on their butts and selling drugs to supplement their already 2500. from welfare and when the govt. finally did something they packed up one night and moved never to be seen again. I am sure they just moved to a different area. But I am so happy to know that while we work are butts off to keep these people nice and comfy so they don't actually have to do anything like work and live comfortably. Just like the trash who keep having babies to increase the cheque. Yes there are people that really do need it and deserve it but I believe limits need to be set.
There was nothing wrong with some of the ideas of work program they had set up it teaches you how to get a job and keep it. If they thought it was slave labour then get off your butts and get a job and stop whining. Sorry but I would like to take home more of the paycheque I work for not so some slug can go buy beer and sit on his fat smelly butt. If these people complain they dont get enough money they are allowed to earn a little extra by getting a job and it will not be deducted from their cheques. The only ones who do this are the people I have no problem with they want off welfare and to make a better life. Not like the whiners who are to lazy to work and feel that the world owes them a favour. This does not mean the people with legitimate disabilities or legitmate claims.
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