2 puppies littermates

[aslan]

Bailey that has nothing to do really with whether or not they are littermates, that has to do with an inexperienced home. Two pups from totally different litters is going to be just as hard to train as littermates for someone who has no experience training one let alone two puppies at once.

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by aslan

Bailey that has nothing to do really with whether or not they are littermates, that has to do with an inexperienced home. Two pups from totally different litters is going to be just as hard to train as littermates for someone who has no experience training one let alone two puppies at once.

Not really sure why you addressed this comment to me, Aslan. If you'll go to the first page, you'll see my first comment in this thread regarding the fact that ....it has nothing to do with the fact that they are littermates.

[aslan]

i was replying to your last post. The thread was about two littermates and i was just stating your last response goes for two puppies ingeneral not just littermates. Not an attack on you.

[mummummum]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

Beauceron has a point.

We need to remember that many families adopt "littermates" because they are under the impression that the dog will grow up with a great friend and many families do not understand the full responsibility of such a task. This can be extremley detrimental to the dogs future. ESPECIALLY if the entire family is a) not an experienced dog home, or b) not on board to train both dogs individually as required in this situation.

There are MANY reasons why adopting two puppies should be taken into careful consideration. If it's not, it can lead to serious problems and concerns like what the OP is dealing with.

And I may get burned for saying this, but I stand by my comment when I say that I would much rather an adaptable puppy be rehomed - than an older dog with serious behavioral/training issues who may get bumped around from home to home to home in the future, all because of lack of education.

No, Beauceron does NOT have a point because Beaceron hasn't made one yet. A blanket generalization that all trainers advise not to aqdopt / try to train littermates and that at no time has there ever been a home in which littermates have been raised successfully is not a point, it's hearsay. Obviously, judging by the content of this thread there are a few of us around who have experience in this and are here to say, yes, it can be done. That is not hearsay, it's fact. THAT is what I am objecting to. One cannot make sweeping. all-inclusives generalization about living creatures, not human, not animal.

You on the other hand are saying something quite different and you are not, I don't think you are anyway, making broadstroke statements, nor are you using a tone more suitable to a "How to alienate friends and make enemies" reality show.

[Winston]

Bailey in your post where you mention the OP has a point when you say this:

There are MANY reasons why adopting two puppies should be taken into careful consideration.

I think the term careful consideration was not mentioned by the OP is was that is was a HORRIBLE IDEA...there was no mention of any kind of consideration??? All the other posters mention things to consider? or things to look at with careful consideration...they did not just come out and say that it was an absolutely horrible idea?

To the person that opened the thread I am so sorry that this thread has gone awall! I hope you will see through all the emotions of us and arguments and make a decision that is going to work for you!

Beauceron your not making your first impression a very good one...or are you trolling?

[Bailey_]

nor are you using a tone more suitable to a "How to alienate friends and make enemies" reality show.

I hear you.

I do think the point here is that two puppies CAN be worked with. *BUT* in the off chance that it really is a bad situation for the family, it would be better to rehome the puppy while still young and a "blank slate" if you will...compared to waiting a year when the dogs are even bigger and deciding at that time to do so.

NOT that I am suggesting there is no hope for the OP. There absolutley is, but it will take work from all parties responsible for these dogs.

[aslan]

K before our little friend succeeds in doing exactly what he/she comes here to do ( cause us to fight amongst ourselves)..Shalll we take a deep breath and plot . oh and Mx3 this is Bailey,,she is a trainer.rotfl...

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by aslan

so in your opinion if you read it on the net it MUST be true,,omg i read once that you Can get pregnant from a toilet seat.

Are you telling me you can't??? I bee'z quiet now.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Are you telling me you can't??? I bee'z quiet now.

omg you made me totally laugh outloud..i have an urge to say " MOOOOO"...

[Winston]

why do they have to rehome the puppies now? have they even given it a fair chance? have they worked through the issues?? come on we can make those kind of statements...none of us have any iedea how 2 pups are going to get along? now when their young, or older?

Bailey I know from a resuce perspective yes rehome is what we would hope for? but OMG if everyone rehomed without giving it a try we would have a hell of alot more dogs in shelters or far worse?

anyway I am outta this one...its getting way off base!

[BenMax]

Ok I will address.

Luckily I do have something to actually say. In our rescue we have adopted out litter mates or those from different litters at the same time. This is not an isolated incident. I can also tell you that with all the follow up done on these pups (whom are now grown), not once was there any of those horror stories told.

Yes - one couple were having difficulty training two at once. We got them a trainer to show them how to manage and all went well thereafter.

Anyone that is telling you otherwise is not being upfront. It can be done, it is manageable, but if you are having difficulty I would suggest contacting a good reputable trainer to assist you. Explore your options before discarding one of the babes.

[Bailey_]

why do they have to rehome the puppies now? have they even given it a fair chance? have they worked through the issues?? come on we can make those kind of statements...none of us have any iedea how 2 pups are going to get along? now when their young, or older?

Bailey I know from a resuce perspective yes rehome is what we would hope for? but OMG if everyone rehomed without giving it a try we would have a hell of alot more dogs in shelters or far worse?

anyway I am outta this one...its getting way off base!

I'm not saying they SHOULD Winston.

It would be best to hear from the OP again to really judge the situation.

All I'm saying is that often times families DO wait before rehoming. Two puppies is a big deal. It's a lot of work, and we don't have any idea at this point how things are progressing for the family - if they're able to get a trainer - or even how much TIME they have to put into training one dog, let alone both.

I'd be curious to hear how things are going, and hopeful that they are able to get the needed education and help to further train their dogs.

In my line of work, I see a lot of people give up on their dogs once they are through the puppy stage - after certain bad behavior traits have already developed, and once the dog is not "puppy-cute" anymore. It makes it much more difficult for the dog to find a new home.

**And I just want to add that I am not one of those people that believes the puppies first home is the BEST home. I do believe that rehoming is on occasion, quite neccessary. I don't cringe when I hear about it, I don't berate someone considering it, and I will help anyone that comes to me find a new home for their dog - provided they have GOOD reasons, and it is an obvious best case scenario for the animal in question.**

[mummummum]

Originally Posted by aslan

K before our little friend succeeds in doing exactly what he/she comes here to do ( cause us to fight amongst ourselves)..Shalll we take a deep breath and plot . oh and Mx3 this is Bailey,,she is a trainer.rotfl...

Hi bailey! Nicetameetcha!

[Shaykeija]

Found a new one...

[mummummum]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

I'm not saying they SHOULD Winston.

It would be best to hear from the OP again to really judge the situation.

All I'm saying is that often times families DO wait before rehoming. Two puppies is a big deal. It's a lot of work, and we don't have any idea at this point how things are progressing for the family - if they're able to get a trainer - or even how much TIME they have to put into training one dog, let alone both.

I'd be curious to hear how things are going, and hopeful that they are able to get the needed education and help to further train their dogs.

In my line of work, I see a lot of people give up on their dogs once they are through the puppy stage - after certain bad behavior traits have already developed, and once the dog is not "puppy-cute" anymore. It makes it much more difficult for the dog to find a new home.

And for what it's worth, I agree with you/. It's a shame that Beauceron has hijacked this thread because it could have been a very good discussion.

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by mummummum

And for what it's worth, I agree with you/. It's a shame that Beauceron has hijacked this thread because it could have been a very good discussion.

Nice to meet you as well! And meh - Beauceron didn't ruin it for me, I still find it interesting.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

I'm not saying they SHOULD Winston.

It would be best to hear from the OP again to really judge the situation.

All I'm saying is that often times families DO wait before rehoming. Two puppies is a big deal. It's a lot of work, and we don't have any idea at this point how things are progressing for the family - if they're able to get a trainer - or even how much TIME they have to put into training one dog, let alone both.

I'd be curious to hear how things are going, and hopeful that they are able to get the needed education and help to further train their dogs.

In my line of work, I see a lot of people give up on their dogs once they are through the puppy stage - after certain bad behavior traits have already developed, and once the dog is not "puppy-cute" anymore. It makes it much more difficult for the dog to find a new home.

Bailey I understand your point and yes I see from a rescue point of view all those poor souls being discarded with a pack of problems.

But...I would suggest that before putting one of these pups back into the system, a sincere effort should be made.

It is so easy to discard, so much harder to actually work at something. In the end, these dogs with the right guidance, proper supervision, and education - this OP and both her dogs can live happily ever after.

Call me foolish.....if you make a committment, you keep it.

[aslan]

Shaykeija thanks for the commercial break,,and an accurate one at that..now back to our regularily scheduled thread..

I can't imagine having no experience with raising a puppy even considering getting two, especially goldens. our moose didn't grow up until he hit two then he became a giant couch potatoe. hmmmm ever have your hands moving faster than your brain, edit, edit edit.

[Beauceron]

The OP asked for opinions, it's retarded to call anyone who doesn't share your view a troll.

Even though I'm not a fan of Millan or Pattison both have expressed that raising two dogs is a bad idea, Stanly Coren in his show also said this. Frawley also considers it a bad idea. Others in DogStarDaily, i have also shared similar views. Considering how many people have trouble with a single dog

• Why won't my dog pee outside?
• Barking When Noone is Home?
• please help me redirect my dog
• Hooch wants to eat other dogs
• dog has developed chewing habits - only when we're home
• Potty Training ---???
• dog growls and snaps when someone sits down next to her
• 7month puppy caused serious attack
• Peewee the Terrorist - One step at a time
• Fearful Aggression?
• Why is she afraid to come? HELP

I feel pretty confident that my opinion on this issue is right.

[aslan]

Beauceron before this sillyness continutes, what are your credentials, experience or whatever with training, or handling dogs other than owning one..You have had trainers, groomers, rescuers, foster parents, etc respond in this thread many of whom have raised littermates. Just wondering what experience you have that makes you right and them wrong.

[Beauceron]

http://forum.dog.com/forums/p/90968/721959.aspx

[aslan]

that is a forum just like this one, not a veterinary college, or any other professional establishment with any credentials.

[Beauceron]

Originally Posted by aslan

that is a forum just like this one, not a veterinary college, or any other professional establishment with any credentials.

You have no credentials.. And it points to people who disagree with you. Perhaps for some reason the demographics here are not representative of the greater reality. It does show that many people have had bad experiences or think doing the littermate thing is a bad idea.

[aslan]

and here is the opposite side..

http://www.pawsforaminute.com/uncate...g-litter-mates

http://www.wholedogtraining.com/One%...%20puppies.pdf

http://www.hubpages.com/hub/Pros-and...tter-Mate-Dogs

[Beauceron]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_483918.html

Dear Potential Double Trouble: The only advantage that I can think of with raising littermates is that they spend their time wrestling and chewing on each other. Otherwise, a puppy would be expecting you or your family members to entertain him or her. Outside of this advantage, there are some considerable disadvantages to consider.

One disadvantage is that littermates raised together tend to bond with each other more than with any human in the family. I've often observed that one puppy grows up kind of aloof, living in the shadow of his or her more dominant littermate.

When separated from each other, littermates that are raised together often display extreme signs of separation anxiety. It sometimes is particularly traumatic when the dogs grow into old age and one inevitably passes away before the other. The one left behind often is extremely stressed.

If you do decide to raise littermates, you can alleviate some of these issues by making a point to give each puppy lots of individual life experience. As often as possible, have one of your family members take one puppy off on an excursion while you take the other pup somewhere else. Individual socialization is imperative. This is time-consuming and does require that you have someone else available who is interested in the pups.

If you do a group dog-obedience class, enroll each puppy into individual groups. As much individual experience as possible is recommended.

Another drawback is the fact that raising a puppy is a lot of work. Two puppies are double trouble. As challenging as it is to house-train a puppy, two are twice as hard. Instead of having to watch one puppy closely, you will need to watch two.

Crate training is the same process as it would be with one puppy. However, I recommend that you get an individual crate for each pup.

Of course, it goes without saying that veterinarian bills, boarding costs and food expenses are double. These are some of the downsides to raising littermates. That said, I never underestimate the ability of an individual determined to succeed.

My recommendation is to get one puppy. Train him or her, and then, when your dog is about 1 year old, add another puppy to the pack. Along with many other puppy-raising issues, we talk about the ramifications of raising littermates together in my book "Puppy Preschool."

[Beauceron]

Originally Posted by aslan

the thread isn't about whether or not the Op is experienced she was asking about raising littermates incase you forgot what you responded too. You made a comment about THAT topic not about raising two puppies. Not one person has said raising two would be easy, what we're disagreeing with is littermates. Two siblings or two strangers, no big difference, alot of work.

It's foolish to ignore the skill level of the poster when asking responding to the question. And the fact that raising littermates is fraught with problems more so than a single dog cannot be denied. To pretend otherwise because a few people have been successful is setting up the poster to fail.

[Beauceron]

Originally Posted by aslan

I notice you never answered what experience you have. hmmm or for that fact what pet you own or if you even own one.

Give me your name and telephone number. I'm happy to provide my CV.

kinda wondering who the WE is you mentioned in your comment too. Are you speaking for the members here or somewhere else.

Me, you and everyone else that responds with NO, don't breed the dog, when this question comes up.

[Marcha]

The majority of issues of 'littermate syndrome' (as that topic in Beauceron's link is called) are related to 1) not having individual training 2) not having time separated from each other 3) not having an identity separate from the other 4) the handler's ignorance about socialization and training. One of the people in that particular topic more aptly calls it 'in over their head syndrome'.

The original poster has gotten some valuable insights in this topic.

1) train separately
2) crate separately (though in same room)
3) understand the extra time and energy involvement from the entire family in raising littermates.

If the OP understands that it takes time and energy from the entire family, and the family is all on board with it, then they have the tools (individual training and individual crating) to make it a very successful opportunity.

It is then up to the original poster to determine whether this is something that is feasable and achievable, and make an informed decision.

As for the individual training... I have two children. They are littermates in a sense. They learn a lot from each other, and it's not always good stuff. They get learning tools according to their own personalities, temperaments and interests. They get time together, and time apart. They get different teachers, different physical activities, different mental activities, different quiet time activities. My kids are 2 years apart. My friend's twins are also treated in this way: they each have their own needs, temperaments, personalities, etc. They need to learn to be apart as well as together, they absorb things at their own pace and according to their own schedule and ability.

Two dogs, whether there is an age difference or not, still need to be seen as two separate individual dogs that require different approaches and individual bonding with their handlers.

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by 2goldenpups

Over the weekend I bought 2 golden retrieves from the same litter. The puppies play very agressively. Upon googling raising 2 puppies I was met with horror stories about adopting from the same litter. I have 2 8 wk old girls.

Does anyone have experience with litter mates?

Also in our home is 4 cats and 2 children one 8 one 15.

I am considering re-homing a pup

2goldenpups, raising two pups from the same litter would be no different from raising two pups from different litters. As others have said, it takes extra work to train, play, and socialize them separately. Is there another adult in the home to give you a hand?

We have a multi-dog household and would come across (and have come across) the same problems whether or not they were from the same litter. It just takes more effort and time on our part.

For sure the two girls can play together and the wrestling you're seeing is perfectly normal. Did you get a chance to see the other littermates play? I bet you would have witnessed the same.

One word of advice though, please have them both spayed before they reach sexual maturity.

Good luck and let us know how you, and they, are doing .

[shirley1011]

Great advise LP...My thoughts exactly..more than one is more work and effort but well worth it.

I believe it is time for Beauceron to give everyone here a break..we have a great group who were asked their opinions and now it is up to the OP to make a decision that is best for her family and the pups.

Beauceron, do you enjoy the challenge or just not know when enough is enough?