4 lb Pregnant Female

[Safyre]

My bestfriend hasa very small cat that is pregnant. I know alot of people probly say they are talking about friends, and they are talking about themselves, I only wish that were true in this case. if this were my cat, she'd be in to the vet to make sure shes going to be ok.
She is 14 months old, but she is NOT the size of a normal cat. I've always joked that she is a dwarf, and doing some research online, it is possible. She is fully formed in regards to legs, and body, well proportioned, however, no bigger than a typical 4-6 month old cat.
She has never been brought to a vet, and she is now pregnant. I have been watching her, as I am pretty good with animals, through lessons with my own, and with my Aunt working for a vet when i was a child. She is about 5-6 weeks pregnant, nipples are extended, and her belly bloated. Feeling her tummy tonight, I could feel 2 definate "lumps" (babies)
My concern is that, she has been impregnanted by a full sized tom. He is typical size, about 11 ponds, larger bone structure. I am concerned that when she goes into labour, she will be unable to deliver the babies if they are of larger size.
What would your suggestions be?
I plan on having a kit for bottle feeding the kittens in case she does pass during delivery...

[twinmommy]

I would suggest you tell your friend to take her cat to the vet.

Tell her to get her spayed.

The world doesn't need anymore kittens right now.

Just more people to spay their cats.

[Safyre]

I know that that is the IDEAL solution, this cat should have been spayed before she got pregnant. However, that doesn't hlep the situation that she is in now.
My friend is unable to afford bringing her cat to the vet to get this pregnacy aborted, and then the cat spayed. And if I wasn't just fired from my job, I would be paying for her to bring the cat in.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated

[Jackie467]

unfortunetly there really isn't any other way to help the situation. without a vet this cat could die during birth, she is much to small to have kittens safely most likely one will get lodged in the birth canal and kill both babies and mother. the spay and abortion would be done at the same time, it is more expensive but otherwise the cat may die. call around to different vets many will take payment plans.

[chico2]

Sorry,I know you care,but there really nothing we can suggest other than a vet,the whole idea of this little cat being pregnant just makes me ill...
If she is 4lb's like you say,she will more than likely die,not that I think the owner cares....poor kitty!
Also if this male unaltered cat is still around,she will get pregnant again and again..... :sad:
Your friend should just not have any animal,it's as simple as that..

[raingirl]

You CAN spay a pregnant cat, and abort the kittens at the same time. I didn't know that until reading on the forums here.

In this case, that might be the best option. It might be the only option to save the cats life.

[twinmommy]

Sorry that you lost your job, and your heart's in the right place for trying to help your friend.

Since you have some extra time, why don't you go to the vet college in Guelph..(I see your in Chattam) and inquire about a low cost abortion and spay.

And YES they can be done at the same time.

Truely IDEAL for this situation.

[CyberKitten]

I agree, spay the cat and save her life! You can spay a pregnant cat and as TMommy says, try a low cost vet or the university and ask if they can help. Otherwise, this poor girl may not be around much longer! It will be expensive either way - if she does deliver at home, she may not survive and your friend or you will have emergency vet costs with no guarantee the cat will survive. Or if she goes full term and has a C section, again you are looking at costs. It is best for the cat to have her spayed! You may actually find it the cheapest option!

Good luck and let us know how this kitty does!

[chico2]

I have a feeling,this case is one of those cases where a person gets a cat,thinking they will cost nothing and if she dies there are plenty of"free to good home"around to replace her.
Since she did not have the cat spayed to begin with,I doubt she will get herself into debt to abort/spay the cat now.
I am hoping she will for the poor little cats sake,it all depends how much she loves her.

[Safyre]

I know that they are able to both abort a pregnancy and spay a cat at the same time, i wasn't meaning to say it was not possible.

To Chico: my friends husband brought home this last cat, after thier baby died, thinking it would help cheer my friend up. That she would have this 'baby' to take care of. And thats even the cats name, Baby. Ironic that she has stayed soo small. No, they don't think about the cost. She is the type that goes into pet stores, see's a cute animal, and wants it, immediately. I don't approve of this behavouir, so she is only allowed to go to pet stores with me, when i can ask her all the relavent questions (ie, how ya gonna take care of it) She does care though, she is just torn. One day she feels as though her animals are the best, being taken care of the best, and then the next, she knows she shoud give them up.
To the woman who suggested Guelph: Never thought of it, There is a very cheap place for spay and neuter's in London as well.
She wants to get the male neutuered, more concerned about buying things for thier new baby (due July).... so its just a bad situation all around.

[CyberKitten]

If she is not willing to properly care for the cat in its pregnancy, would she be willing to give it up to you or to someone who could care for it?

[Lucky Rescue]

She has two intact cats???

I've seen this before. Guess who gets the call when there are 15 intact cats in the house??

With two people so broke and so irresponsible they can't/won't take care of pets, how the heck could they manage a baby?

You might want to tell them that IF this cat survives the pregnancy and delivery, she can come into heat well before the babies are weaned and get preg. again.

[canine14]

If we can all arrange transport, I will be more than happy to keep the Momma cat and get her the vet care she needs. Are you able to drive to a major city on the way to Montreal? If eveyone pitches in, this can be done. The Momma will DIE if she stays with your friend. The kittens will probably get stuck in the birth canal and the Momma will die a slow and agonizing death. Tis has to be arranged ASAP before her pregnancy progresses. By the way, I have a "dwarf" cat as well who only weighs 4 lbs and is full-grown. She was spayed the MINUTE she was big enough.

What does the cat even look like?

Lisa.

[Safyre]

I talked with my friend again this morning, and I...I'm soo annoyed. Reading your posts, i want to cry. I know what is going to happen, I know that these babies are going to be too big for her to deliver... but my friend thinks that, there is a chance that she will be able to give birth to them, and she wants her to try. Even if she saves only one kitten and looses the mom.

She is NOT willing to give up Baby (the female cat, that is her name) Baby is the best behaved of her three cats. She also has two males, Ed, and Cherry. Cherry is BEAUTIFUL and fixed. Her and her fiance at the time, decided to get Cherry, and were able to keep up with the bills, even able to get him fixed at 6 mnths. Then, she decided on her own to get Ed, a tabby. He has a HORRIBLE attitude, very VERY aggressive in regards to the house and to the other cats. Always going after Baby, stalking her.. its horrible. I tell her all the time to get rid of im. I've already explained how she came by Baby.
She would give up Ed, and Cherry, if she can find homes for them. It would take a bit of convincing, because she loves them, giving them attention, and them being around, but she knows, if there was someone infront of her saying 'let me take care of them properly" she would give them up.(the boys, not Baby)

I've already explained to her that Ed will keep going after Baby, and get her pregnant again, if she does survive. She states that she is going to neuter him, but has taken no actions. She is at a stand still. She doesn't beleive anything bd is going to happen. I've read your posts to her, and she just gets mad and offended, instead of seeing what you guys are saying.

LuckyRescue: Its not that they are broke, they do not know how to spend thier money properly, and , spending $10 here and there, 10 times or so, on a outfit for thier Human baby seems like less money then having to plop down $100 to get the cat looked at and properly cared for. Get it? its the way they are looking at money that is the problem.

[Safyre]

oh, and the other thing, I already have prevented her from getting anymore animals. (they also have feeder mice, two ball pythons and a bearded dragon)
She will never be int the situation where there is "15 intact animals" in one house. I myself would call the OSPCA at that point.
I go to the OSPCA and donate, and bring in strays for assistance all the time.
I don't LIKE, or APPROVE of the situation that my friend is in. She refuses the best advise (taking the cat to the vet)... and so I am left, knowing that this cat may die in labour

[CyberKitten]

She has three cats? OMG!!! That is a recipe for disaster. And perhaps Cherry's problem is caused by the humans in his life. No cat acts that way without a good reason. How can she be so cruel as to even want to sacrifice her "Baby" life like that? It's crazy! It just makes me sad and angry! She will likely loose all the kittens and mama - who will die an agonizing death if she is not spayed soon! Tell her she is extremely selfish and obviously does not care for her cat. No-one who loves their cat would act like she is.

[CyberKitten]

I have not been able to get this cat off my mind - the young small female -Baby. To know that her agony and probably death can be prevented just makes me want to scream!! (If she were a child I could at least contact Protective Services but here she is with an uncaring and uninformed human who does not care if she dies ( given that she said she'd keep one of the kittens if mama died). Does she not realize there is likely to be NO kittens!!

This is from a health care site:

"When a small female has normal sized kittens, those kittens may be too large to pass through her birth canal. Her body may be too small to accommodate non-small kittens so they may be miscarried before they are able to survive. A small mother may be unable to produce enough milk to feed rapidly growing non-small kittens. If the kittens are born small, they will be more fragile than normal sized kittens and their survival chances may be reduced. In addition to hazards associated with being small, some genes also cause variable side-effects which be disabling or deadly."

If she won't listen to us, perhaps she will listen to that. She can save the female cat she has but it means having her spayed as soon as possible!!!

I can't believe this, can't believe people can be so stupid (a word I hate to use but it seems applicable here - she is being selfish, stubborn and cruel!)

Also have her read this poem by a vet:

The Miracle of Life...
"Come quick, come quick", their mother said "The time is getting near"
She feels that when the kittens come the children should be here.

She told them that a big orange Tom took "Kitty" as his wife
"It's wonderful, a gift from God, the miracle of life"

At half a year young "Kitty" feels too painful and too scared
to appreciate six miracles, blind-eyed and yellow haired.

But she knows these lives depend on her and nature tells her how
and as she cleans them, children ask "Mom, can we go now?"

But now and then for six more weeks the children visit her
to play with six new magic toys made of life and fur.

The six weeks pass, the newness gone and new homes yet unfound,
Mom bundles up six miracles and takes them to the pound,

Where lovingly, with gentle hands and no tears left to cry,
the shelter workers kiss them once and take them off to die.

And "Momma Kitty" now she's called mourns her loss and then,
She's put outside, and of course, she's pregnant once again.

Dad tells "Kitty" STOP THIS NOW or you wont live here long!
but deep inside of Momma Cat, this time something's wrong.

Too young, too small, too often bred now nature's gone awry,
Momma Kitty feels it too and she crawls off to die.

She too is freed from this cruel world, and from her time of strife.
How harsh the truth, how high the price this "Miracle of Life"?

~Barry Taylor, DVM

[Safyre]

Its not Cherry that has a problem, it is ED
Ed is the male that is not fixed.
Ed did not start to act out until she got a puppy a few months ago. Ed DID NOT take to the dog well (and she got rid of the pup to a good home because of this) Since having had the dog in the house, Ed is aggressive. He is very protective of Baby, the female. He stalks her and NEVER leaves her alone. Baby did not start going into heat, or not noticeable heat, until around the time they got the dog as well... so I'm not sure if it was the dog that got Ed acting badly, or that the one female in the house is now ready for him, and hes over protective of her.
She KNOWS that she needs to get rid of Ed, but she wants a good home to give him to, and shes not sure where to turn.

I'm not happy that she is willing to allow Baby to labour.. but thats what she feels is right... she doesn't beleive anything bad is going to happen!

Cherry, is docile. He just lays around looking like a King all day long... hes not a problem. Baby, she is just like my cats, when they want attention they come to get i, otherwise they do thier own thing.
Ed is the instigator in the house, ripping up carpet and what not

[Safyre]

I've had her read that same site.. or one that quotes the same. She is in denial that anything is going to go wrong with the pregnancy.
I KNOW that something probly WILL go wrong, but she doesn't beleive it.
If i had the mnoey to take her to my vet, and get MY vet to yell at my friend, I would. but as i said, i got fired last week so any money i have, I need for my OWN animals ... My animals come first. All i can do is keep telling her these things, over and over and hope that i can get through to her before Baby goes into labor

My pets below

[CyberKitten]

Sorry for confusing the names. Is there any way you can steal Baby (an act of desperation). How can she be so stubborn as to not realize this kitty will die if she has to give birth to larger kittens? The "best" possible outcome is a misscarrige but even stillborn kittens will require the cat be seen asap by a vet!

[Safyre]

what would I do with her if i were to take her though? i can't drop her off at the Vet.
The OSPCA ...they shouldn't have to bear the responsibility of this animal either.
But remember, this girl is my FRIEND. While I don't approve of the way she keeps her animals, I think stealing her cat might just cause problems with the friendship.

She jsut doesn't comprehend how much of aproblem this is.
She feels like.. hey cats have been giving birth without humans help forever...
how do you argue with that? she feels as though, cats survived for hundreds of years without human assistance fo delivery, or vaccinations... why do they need help now?
The cats are feed, brushed, given warm home.... she feels that this is realyl all they need to be happy

[canine14]

This is so unbelievably sad.

The tradgedy is that your cruel friend will ignore all three adult cats when her baby is born, if Baby is even still around. In any case, her kittens will suffer the same fate.

The selfishness of your friend makes me bitterly angry. It almost seems as though you should "steal" the cat for her own good.

Well, my offer still stands.

Lisa.

[canine14]

She feels like.. hey cats have been giving birth without humans help forever...
how do you argue with that? she feels as though, cats survived for hundreds of years without human assistance fo delivery, or vaccinations... why do they need help now?

They have also died without human help for hundreds of years.

That's how you argue with that.

Is she going to have HER baby "without human assistance for delivery?" Hey, women have been doing it by themselves for THOUSANDS of years.

Lisa.

[Safyre]

A lot of people are telling her to get rid of the cats before her daughter is born in July. more because of the idea that cats smother babies.
I feel as though, if she had ONE cat, she could care for it properly. She is overwhelmed by the amount of animals.
She has a husband, that does not want to give up any of his cats either. I've never really sat him down and explained the problems with him.
I thank you for your offer... and this isutaiton makes me just as angry.
But, i am stuck. she is my bestfriend, and I just.... help her take care of the cats the best that I can.

[Safyre]

Whoa.. trying not to overreact to the comment
"Is she going to have HER baby "without human assistance for delivery?" Hey, women have been doing it by themselves for THOUSANDS of years."
Let me explain what I am.
I am a ChildBirth Doula. I support the idea, the fact, that woman can deliver thier babies without medical intervention. I assist them in doing so. And I will be assisting my friend through her labour and delivery.

It's a bit different to compare humans and animals in regards to labour.

When I was talking to her at breakfast, she said to me.... animals, cats, were living for thousands of years without vaccinations and vets.... so why do they need them soo much now. Yes, obviously more animals live with the assistance of vets.. but the world is overpopulated for cats anyways....? See where I am going
I'm not sure why she has taken this stance.
I'm wondering if she feels the following: Get the pregnancy aborted, and spayed... and you are killing the kittens. Letting her labour, the kittens still may die. I think she hasn't clued into th fact that BABY could die.

[canine14]

I said HUMAN assistance, not medical. You ARE offering her HUMAN assistance ("And I will be assisting my friend through her labour and delivery") even as a Doula.

Just pointing out that if humans need assistance, then why not cats. The cat needs help, that's all.

By the way, with the right vet care, the kittens need not be aborted. They can be delivered by C-sec when they are ready or of a viable size. The mother can be spayed at the same time. Not that it matters, but I value life and never mentioned abortion once in my posts. Read them again.

Lisa.

[CyberKitten]

This thread is making me ill! Literally. I am thinkong of that poor cat, and your cruel friend - who would prefer to not to see reality for what it is.

I am a phsyician and while I believe many women can deliver babies without medical intervention - the fact is that babies are surviving now that never would have in the past without the intervention we have now. Not to mention the fact that women no longer die in record numbers of complications from childbirth. At least not in the west anyway - I have seen the effects of childbirth without intervention in my work with Physicians without Borders and children without a mom (like my grandmother's mother who died beacuse she had a midwife and not a doctor and there was little they could do as she lay bleeding to death in her bedroom. But that was in 1927.) But I do think healthy women without medical risks can opt to give birth at home - providing all the prep has been done.

That is quite another topic and I do not want to go there. I guess I see the same thing in relation to this kitty. Cats have been giving birth for years without our help but a small cat who had been impregnated by a large male in the wild would also die. This cat is fortunate to at least be inside. She is unfortunate in having someone who does not care what happens to her. This cat could possibly have a C section (though I am not sure someone like your friend is the best person to have any more cats) and that might save her life. I thought initially it was the cost factor - and spaying her while she is pregnant is likely to be less costly than either a C section or the costs of attempting to save her from a horrible death when she does give birth to babies who are too large for her small body.

What do you do as a Doula when you have a patient who knows the baby will be breech or there will be complications? You certainly don't deliver it normally? Explain to her that her cat deserves the same kind of consideration. Why does this cat have to die because of her miserable and cruel notions, misguided as they may be?

I just feel sooo helpless and frustrated with this thread.

If you cannot "steal" the cat - and I was sort of saying that half in jest - can you not find someone else to take the cat? The cat can disappear - at least from her home. (and to a better one).

I do know if I had a friend in that situation, I would tell her what I though in no uncertain terms. Show her the gory pictures of what happens to cats when they die painfully attempting to give birth. She won't react to stats and info but find some more graphic material and explain. Surely, she is not that uninformed. (Then again, anyone with an intact female and male in a home that is not a reputable breeder makes one seriously wonder)

[canine14]

Well said, Cyberkitten.

I guess I am so angry because I see my own little "dwarf" cat, 4 lbs also, whose bone structure is so tiny, and think of her trying to give birth. The thought makes me sick.

Lisa.

[chico2]

Safyre,to be honest with you,your friend would have to take a backseat to the suffering of a little cat,you and her can make up and become friends again...the poor little Baby has no options :sad:
A"friend"who would let her cat die in child-birth and not care,would to me be no more a friend,but an animal-abuser,not someone I would ever call a friend.
I am sorry to say,you are a witness to this cruelty and it is your duty as an animal-lover to interfere...Baby has noone else :sad:

[canine14]

If you take her, we can arrange to have her transported here (Montreal) almost immediately. I'm sure a lot of people here would help. Can you drive a bit towards TO?

Lisa.