4 lb Pregnant Female

[Prin]

As for vaccinations: her response is, cats lived for thousands of years without vaccinations, why do they need them now?

Ooohhh you're jumping into trouble now... Humans have lived millions of years without vaccines. Why is it then that hundreds of people cross the border into Canada for a flu shot in mid-fall? Your friend is just giving another excuse for not opening her wallet.

And the $45.. I'm sure there are reliable, honest vets that are cheaper than that, but you would have to shop around to find out. I would rather a crappy vet charge me $15 for a consult than not go at all and watch my cat die, screaming and moaning in the comfort of my living room.

[CyberKitten]

Can you try to get Chrsy to take the cats to a no kill shelter. I am afraid that if she did bring Baby to the SPCA, the cat would be put down since she is pregnant (Maybe someone can advise me about the SPCA there - in largere areas, they wait 72 hours before putting cats to sleep?). It is different here where it is is the only game in town and maybe where you are too, I do not know. Why not accept the offer of the person here who offered to rehome Baby or find a good home yourself?

Re:
"cats lived for thousands of years without vaccinations, why do they need them now?"

I am shocked to hear you say that and you claim to be involved in health care. That is like saying children lived for centuries without vaccines? (maybe in the dark ages!)

Cats needs vaccines to ensure they do not get deadly diseases. They have immuity as kittens from their mother's milk (providing mom was vaccinated). Then they need two sets of vaccinations - at 9 weeks and 12 weeks. Even feral (wild cats) that get spayed or neutered in the various programs are vaccinated to ensure they will have a longer life. Unvaccinated cats might as well be wild cats living outdoors - their lifespan is up to 2 years and if they live that long they are lucky. It is extremely irresponsible not to vaccinate your pets. Did you vaccinate your children? Why would you not extend the same kind of protection to your cat?

I don't want to be undiplomatic but your friend is very uninformed if you she has not vaccinated her cats and it is probably the least expensive vet visit she could make. It also helps other cats because what if her cats - invaccinated- come into contact with other cats? That is more than irresponsible! Many jurisdictions require cats to be vaccinated and if you travel with your pets (as I do), vaccination is legally required.

I will assume in your case that is because you are not a cat person (you yourself said you had dogs) and are not knowledgeable about these wonderful animals that you did not understand about cats and vaccines or the other misconceptions you have fostered on this Board. Here is a web site that explains about vaccines. Maybe you can share them with your friend:

http://www.petpeoplesplace.com/Care/...atVaccines.htm

Ands I do know what Trisomy 18 is. I am a pediatrician after all, lol My point was not to suggest she is not depressed, just that postpartum depression is usually seen after the birth of a live fullterm baby. There are other terms and I have not seen her nor know the case history so I do not know what kind of depression she suffers from. It would also helpeful to know the dynamics of the house - all these pets and people relate to one another - to know what is causing the stress.I hate to see animals suffer because their humans are neglectful.

Good luck with helping your friend and get those cats vaccinated!

[canine14]

I have respionded to the person that wants to take Baby, advising them that I was not sure if Crys would give up Baby. Then the person started pushing me towards stealing the cat, going so far as to say I am not WILLING to help this cat if i will not steal it. I'm getting a very bad, agressive vibe from the person at this point, and would not suggest my friend sending her cat to this person. As well, there is an issue of how to get the cat to where this person is.

You're talking about me. I am not aggressive - just aggressively passionate about animals. I have offered to come down there and pick up the cat. I have offered an adoption fee to your friend. I already have a 4lb. cat of my own who is full grown which is why I am so involved in this thread. I have saved all kinds of animals whom no one else wanted. I never once touched on the motherhood subject regarding your friend and in fact am deeply sorry fo her tragic loss. My brother-in-law and his wife lost their baby the same way a year ago and I know the anguish it causes. Not everyone is perfect when it comes to money and I have never judged. Lastly, I am in the "business" of helping people all the time: I work at a Roman Catholic Church.

Despite what you wrote, I would still like you to consider letting me have Baby. I can call your friend so she can meet me over the phone at least. I am even willing to be the one to go all the way to Chatham so she can meet me in person even though it is quite far and I work on weekends.

Please, please, please reconsider. I am humbling myself here. I know that everyone on the Board who has met me or posted with me will tell you that I am a good person and a good home.

Thank you,
Lisa.

[chico2]

Well,I am not going to comment on the vaccination-part,this is 2005,not 1905,we have evolved
Cats can now live to be over 20yrs old,thank's to vets and the right care.
My cats were free too,except Chico,that does not mean I am not going to give them the best of care,these are living,loving little creatures...whether you bought them or got them for free.
I don't know what their fate will be,being "dumped"at the SPCA,but hopefully better than their current bad situation with incredibly irresponsible owners.I doubt these people will look for a no-kill shelter,that would just be too much bother,after all,who cares,they were free
Canine14,thank's for trying,but I don't think they really care if those cats are killed :sad:

[Britishvixen21]

Safyre, I just wanted to write a post and explain to you a little about this website, I am fairly new here also and can see why you have your gaurd up a little. When I first came to this website My first impression was that the people that frequent it were rude, aggressive and uptight. (regs let me finish) They are highly opinionated and are not afraid to tell you when you they think you are being a dumbass. However after perceivering and spending time here my first impressions were quashed and I realised that these people are not rude, and aggressive they are passionate and determined that no animal should suffer. They work tirelessy to help protect and shelter animals, some dedicating there lives to it. These animals are like children to them, and when they see an injustice right in front of there eyes they are bound to try and fight for whats right. They are opinionated but so is everyone and this is a public forum where we are free to speak our minds.
Even though they have been critical of you, if you read between the lines all these people are trying to do is offer you an olive branch of help. There are four pages of advice, offers to help, offers to take baby, I even offered to get my dad to call your freind all the way from England! and theres one lady whos offering to drive all the way to your freinds house and take a very sick cat from her and give her the medical attention she so desperatly needs and deserves out of her own pocket.
My advice to you, is to put your guard down and read what these people are offering to do for you. There must be something that someone has said that is useful. However if you keep on comming back with rebuttles and no's its not going to get you anywhere and your going to make the people that are losing sleep over your freinds cat frustrated. Work with these people not against them. As for everyone else I would like to be the diplomatic one here and say that insulting safyre may lead her to leave the post and then Baby will inevitable die. lets all be profuctive stop the bickering and try and find a solution for Baby!

[Safyre]

CyberKitten - I wasn't the one that said "cats lived for thousands of years without vaccinations, why do they need them now?" that was Crys! OMG, go to the pictures forum and look for the "NSDT Retriever" post, its my animals, including two very healthy (lol, fat) cats. My cats are vaccinated at the same time as Justice now, they were spayed and declawed at 6 mnths of age. Haylee was adopted from the OSPCA in Chatham. Zeppo, would have ended up at the OSPCA, as she was born to a stray mother.
Crys is uninformed about the vaccinations, and how they help the cats. She would NEVER think about not getting her baby its shots and taken to its doctors appts and what not. I don't know why she is not doing the same for her cats.
I thought you were the one that said you were the pediatrician... I just wasn't sure and didn't want to read back through all the posts to find out, that why I posted the link for trisomy.

Canine14: Let me talk to Crys and her husband today, and see how they feel about this. I am going to print all the posts from this forum, and let them read them. If they decide to they would like to contact you, I'll get back on here and send ya a PM. I know that they cannot travel in thier car right now, as the husband got into a lil accident on black ice and bent the rim and needs an alignment. whoops.


Chicho2 _ I already said i didn't want to come back and read about dumping. Then you go ahead to that they don't care about thier animals.
There is ONE SHELTER IN MY CITY. THAT'S IT. ONE. Where else would you like these people to bring thier animals to give them a better home?

BrisitchVixen - The same things have been said over and over. Get the cats to the vet, or steal them.
Stealing, I am not willing to do. Vet, I am trying my heart out man!

[maddoxies]

If there is a safe place for Baby here in Montreal, I will be in Toronto for the Easter weekend and can do chauffeur service.

I will need to know by Maudy Thurs, so I can take an extra crate with me.

[chico2]

Safyr,no more arguing...just keep trying,hopefully we will have a happy ending and hopefully no more FREE animals will come their way until these people have learned how to properly care for them.
My thoughts will be with Baby and Ed :sad:

[Safyre]

Oh, reading another thread I realized I didn't answer the person about the $45 vet cost.
I'm not sure about you, but I only take my animals to vets that I can trust.
Sadly, $45 is NOT the most expensive. There are 5-6 vet clinics that I can think of in my city.
Three are owned by the same person, who is out to make only money. The turnover rate at his clinics, for staff, is horrendus. And thay don't do good work.
Another that I can think of, I have seen turn away animals in need of immediate care, because they couldn't get the animal to 'calm down'. That was one I saw first hand. OTher h orror stories persist around the city.

My Vet, is the one that everyone tries to get into in the city. and he has a partne, but everyone perfers HIM.
There is another good vet clinic, in the same Municipality, but a different city. bout 20 mins away on county roads. Their charges are about the same.
Because my animals mean soo much to me, I won't let them go to someone I don't trust.

[Britishvixen21]

Im so glad to see you read my post safyre and listened to what I was saying about not defending yourself all the time!! Even then you thought i was putting you down and I was offering an olive branch.

[Britishvixen21]

Oh and by the way - Chico is not saying your dumping. shes merely asking if there are any other shelters around that you know are no kill like the Humane Society. As the OSPCA will for sure put her to sleep. THis is what im talking about safyre shes just asking you a question and your insulting her. you need to take a chill pill and calm down.

[Safyre]

Alright, Just to let everyone know:
Crys is willing to give Baby to Canine14. We just have to find a way to get her to Canine14.

[Lucky Rescue]

Safyre, I understand none of this is your fault - these animals are not yours and I"m sure you are feeling great frustration. But I just have to ask - you came here requesting suggestions. MANY were and are being given and you've explained why none can be taken. What did you expect people to say? No one has a magic forumula for this. I sure don't.

I just have to add that this thread is yet another strong arguement about why animals should never be given for free.

The one cat that was not free, Cherry, is the only one neutered. The others (the FREE ones) are being neglected, left intact, given away(dog) and are going to be dumped at the SPCA for the very behaviors that the owners caused. Free = disposable.

Are the reptiles being neglected too?

[Britishvixen21]

Well Thank God a resolution!!!! Please let us know how it turns out.

[CyberKitten]

Thank you Safyre for perservering. I am so happy to hear Baby will get proper care!! Whew!!!

I am sorry if I thought you did not understand cats or vaccinations. I have a busy lifestyle (as we all do, I know) and tend to read only New Posts and them rather quickly and then I type as fast as I can (evidence my many typos ) So I have not seen your pets, I am sorry! Maybe when I have more time.

Thank you canine for helping this needy kitty!

[Safyre]

Whoa, wait a sec Lucky Rescue.. the dog(Boxer) was purchased for over $2000 and they are still paying for her!
The Reptiles are very well cared for, these are mostly the husbands pets, she makes sre they have the correct surroundings, and are feed and taken care of properly.
When at thier house, you will often see me with a snake wrapped around my ponytail, as that is Piper's fave place to sleep (or so it seems)
They had to do research on how to take care of the reptiles, and went by everything the books said.
But i think they looked at the cats and sorta thought 'easy, you pet them, brush them, feed them, and they are just great' and didn't bother to think about the UNSEEN side of cats (vaccinations, vet bills, those things)

I said it myself, that this posting is another reason to show why you should not give away free pets. I understand where you are comming from there, and i agree.

I still have ap roblem with the word dump. You want the animals taken care of correctly, Crys is not able to do this, therefore, what would you have her do? Please answer that, because I seriously hate the word 'dump' and it seems that it is going to be used no matter what she does to try to give these guys better homes

CyberKitten - its alright... when I read it, i was just taken aback, thats all. I actually have had cats all my life, and just recently (its been a year now, doesn't seem like that long) gotten a dog. Justice is my first dog. I understand cats better. And i think my cats listen better than my dog sometimes . Its easy to get confused with 105 responses to go through.

[Britishvixen21]

baby is going to a better place, shes not going to die, you did your job and good for you for percievering and finding a solution!

[Safyre]

To anyone else that is reading the thread: I want is an explaination of the word 'dump' , and why it is being used in relation to trying to find a better home for the animals. I'm just a bit confusedo n that. i use the word dump differently it seems, so just wondering if someone intelligent cares to explain how they see that word

[Britishvixen21]

Obviously my offers of help from overseas proffesionals went unnoticed? and the other advice I had for you also about being able to navigate this site better?
Yes I do have trouble with my cat, however I am open to my options and if you will read the WHOLE post i have taken these peoples advice whole heartedly and its working!
and lastly you are one ungrateful human being. all you have done is whine and bitch about how everyone is comming down on you!!! Not once have I seen you say Thank you for these peoples kind offers to pay for vets, find you shelters, offer homes for this abused cat, offer rides to drive all the way to montreal with her!!! all you can muster is more of an argument with lucky! well you know what your not worthy of anymore of my post time. Good Luck with the cat I hope she gets the attention she deserves.

[mafiaprincess]

I would constitute dump as taking an animal to a shelter that is NOT no kill. There are so many animals in shelters that by taking one that has problems, there is a small likelyhood it will get adopted.

Kill shelters only have to hold an animal for 72 hours. That is an awfully short time to try to save a life.

[Writing4Fun]

IMHO, "dump" means "I can't deal with the problem I created so I'm going to let the SPCA or a rescue or another person deal with it instead".

I sincerely hope Baby & Ed (and all the other animals in that household) turn out ok. Would you (Safyre) be able to put in an anonymous call to the local humane society (or animal control or whatever)? They might be able to at least stop them from getting more animals in the future.

I also hope Crys is still getting medical help. I know of someone who had post-pardum issues (not full-blown depression, but issues none-the-less), who wound up in a serious depression some 7 or 8 years later. A mature woman who is behaving like this towards another living creature (or creatures) is surely heading for trouble herself. Safyre, is her current pregnancy being followed by an OBGYN? I would think she should be considered a high-risk, seeing as how her last child was still-born. She might be seriously hormonally imbalanced...

[Lucky Rescue]

OH, I never saw where the dog was paid for. 2000$ paid for a dog (someone really took advantage of them.) and yet they are too broke to spay or neuter a cat?

My definition of "dumping": You get an animal, don't bother to care for it properly, don't spay/neuter or train it. It gets to be "annoying" ("won't stop getting pregnant", "scratches the furniture", "is too hyper") etc etc etc or inconvenient because of the neglect and irresponsiblilty, so you "get rid of" it.

In other words, when someone who creates the problem, then blames the animal.

Goldengirl says she is going to ON Easter weekend and has offered to chaffeur the cat? What generous offers, from both her and Canine14.

Please, no personal insults or rude language!

[glasslass]

When you take a pet to a location where you know it will be killed, or that it has behaviour problems that prevent it from being adopted, then yes, it's called dumping. Saying she is taking them to get good homes doesn't wash. It's a solution to HER problem of having to deal with it, but really can't be called anything but dumping. I know this sounds harsh. I'm glad she's agreed to let Canine take Baby.

[happycats]

Dump = get rid of, abandon

[Safyre]

Alright, not reading any posts, just sending this msg out, and it will be the last from me in regards to all of this.
When I spoke to Crys on the phone today, she said she was willing to give up Baby.
I went over to her apartment later, and she and her husband talked, they are not convinced that she is soo small that she will be unable to give birth. We took a picture of her sitting next to Ed, and she is NOT as small as she seems. Whne looking at her away from another cat, she seems terribly small, but when pictured to another cat, she doesn't look as terribly small. We have never weighed her, 4 lbs was a guess. At this point, I'd be willing to say that she MAY be a full grown cat, but on the smaller side of the normal range. She may be 5-6 lbs. istead of the posted 4 lbs. (really wish I had a scale)

Crys is of the mindset that, the animals don't need the help of humans (in the form of vaccinations, spay/nueture) to survive. She feels as if... the cats are comming to her, wanting to be pet, they are eating, drinking... therefore, they are happy and healthy.
When I tried to explain to her, that, she's getting doctors help with HER own pregnancy, and that her human child will be helped by Docotrs... she didn't see the paralell to animals.

I am very saddened by this. I had no idea untill all of this started that she saw her cats as ... well, disposable.
I know you all hate it, and so do I. I have spent soo much energy in this, so much passion, but, it seems that I am not going to win the argument.

I am not condoning this behaviour, this choice, but it's one that I am going to have to live with.Believe me, I am still going to be working on her.... still going to try to get her AT LEAST to let me bring her animals to the vet when mine go in for shots... but thats all I can do. Be a bug in her ear and hope she listens
I hope that Baby is able to deliver these kittens, and that they will find forever homes.
I do thank you all for the advice that has been given, and wish that I were able to follow it. The stealing her cat, is far too out there for me. I hold my cats to a high standard as well, but I know how I feel aout mine, and I could never forgive a friend for stealing one of my animals, so I can't imagine doing it to someone else.
People say she doesn't love the animals... thats untrue. She loves the animals the way she knows how to.

I'm hoping that the moderators will close this thread for me.
I will create a new post when (if) Baby delivers her kittens, and, might even use this as a place to find the babies a forever home.

I'm sorry to everyone that this has anguished, concerned, and disgusted. I share your feelings....