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Lowering urine pH in canines
Does anyone know if you can lower a dog's urine pH through diet alone and how you'd go about doing it? Does anyone know the long-term effects of urine that basic on the kidneys?
A friend's lab, Max...I think he's about 7 now...is showing a significant amount of blood in his urine. The pH, according to the owner, is about 9.3 and the worry is that the blood is from a recurrence of a problem with bladder stones that he had a short time ago. A little medical history: Max has had a rough couple of years. First he developed Addison's disease and has been on prednisone for quite a while (he started at 10 mg, twice daily). He had his pelvis broken a year or two ago when he fell asleep under the family truck and got backed over. It took multiple surgeries to fix that problem, since a sponge was left in during the first surgery (yes, this was at the specialist's! ) He then developed the stones in his bladder which blocked his urethra and eventually required a rerouting of his 'plumbing'. Then came the bout with hemolytic anemia. The pred was bumped up to 80 mg a day and the anemia has begun to respond. This week, his pred dose was reduced to 60 mg a day, but now he's peeing blood again. :sad: The urine pH is way too high and the fear is that the stones are forming again. He eats a mixture of kibble and home-cooked, but his owner is wondering if a switch to all meat, home-cooked would be better for him--and my thought would be that maybe raw would be best The vet, of course, has his own suggestions for prescription food, but they're pretty grainy. Any thoughts, suggestions on the problem?
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"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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WHAT A COINCIDENT! And my 2nd 1 today!
Quote:
Last edited by corky/max; April 17th, 2009 at 03:07 PM. |
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I think a switch to raw would be most beneficial...it certainly wouldn't hurt.
In addition, 2100mg cranberry supplements (we've used Natural Factors) 2x daily with meals. Your friends can get ph strips at any drug store so they can monitor the ph levels as often as they wish. Normal for dogs is 5.5-7. Lots of fluid is important as well. They can add 1/2 cup water extra to his food.
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"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant |
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Thanks, but it won't open for me, corky/max. Slow connection. I can barely navigate in pets.ca and those pages are cached
Cranberry I know I can find, and sugarcatmom () has suggested checking into L-methionine. Max's dad will be touching base with the vet again tomorrow morning, and I'll be going into town on Sunday--I think I know where I can get both of those....
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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Hazel here's the post corky/max mentioned:
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Avoid biting when a simple growl will do The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying |
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for Max
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying |
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growler, on both counts!
Not sure what, if any, effect all this has had on Max's kidneys...something that I'm sure the vet will discuss with Max's owners when they touch base today!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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Quote:
After rereading your 1st post, HAZEL, it dawned on me that maybe Max is having prostrate problems---the blood---My Max had this problem--I'd find him in the morning with blood soaked under him in his bed--ended up getting him neutered because of it as suppose to help with that problem.--No prob. since and that was over 3 yrs. ago. Maybe should have the prostrate checked in to. Max also had ph of 9 and bacterial infection (before the prostrate problem) to do with crystals--If the other post I did in other forum ends up here----more info. It sure sounds like that Max has had a hard life---poor dog! Hope things get better for him! :sad: Just came back---That d___ prednisone is nothing but a cover-up---It does nothing to correct the problems--only stops the symptoms--gives relief (while on it) but as soon as it is taken away--everything comes back (never really left) I will never give my dogs this crap---It also can cause diabetes, hypothyroidism, and other problems--It messes up the immune system and if the dog has been on it a long time--very hard to get off of it and get 'things' working again. My mother's minature schnauzer was on this stuff a long time and ended up with diabetes because of it. My vet has instructions to never give my dogs this crap, Proin, or Rimadyl !! I wish the dog could be seen by a holistic vet---Most reg. vets know next to nothing about preventive measures or how to cure a lot of things---most is cover-up the problem. Wish I had a holistic vet around close here---I'd switch vets in a 'heartbeat!' To me a reg vet is mainly to get tests (blood work) and to do necessary operations. Know nothing much about supplements,etc. My vet admitted to me that they only get about 1 day of schooling on that sort of thing and could not answer my questions on the subject!! Is there a holistic vet in your area? Last edited by corky/max; April 18th, 2009 at 09:55 AM. |
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Hey growler
Thanks for the help in getting that post over here. Left you a message in the above post I just did to Hazel. Thanks again
Sure hope that Max (my dog is called Max too) gets the help he needs--the poor thing---I feel so sorry for a lot of dogs because so many people don't know how to treat them--respect that they have feelings and can feel pain the same way we can--don't know how to take care of them (and this can be also from ignorance)It is hard to know everything about doing the right things as dogs have a dif. 'make-up' than we do. Probably could say a bigger problem is not knowing all the things that can harm them. And HEY HAZEL--these comments are not directed at you (FOR SURE) or the owner of Max!! I'm just a big dog lover and wish I could help all dogs have a better life--I just get 'carried away' thinking about the dogs of this world. |
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Quote:
Since Growler is working today here is the second post corky/max is referring to .... Quote:
And, lots more good wishes for Max |
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Rainbow
Hey! Thanks for helping me out. And gee I might have to retract on feeding tomatoes---although I do it all the time and see no bad things happening because of it! I just read the website listing in here--under the post about the 15 most asked questions--the one on what foods are dangerous to feed dogs. Had heard of them all except about the tomatoes. Darn, I've been freezing my home-grown tomatoes (crushed) for my dogs for at least several yrs. now. It is one of the veggies I have most of and 'for free' and just planned to grow more than ever this year--now it kind of worries me even though you would think after all this time, if there was going to be a prob. with my dogs--it would have happened by now!! I do know a few other things that weren't mentioned in that list---like xylitol--a sugar free sweetener (prob. all diet sugar subs.) and bread dough--prob. more but can't think of them right now--was garlic mentioned--I do give that which is okay if you don't give too much--not more than 1 clove-crushed and mixed in with food---only give every other day or so. Again, thanks RAINBOW, really appreciate your help!
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Thanks, rainbow.
corky/max, all medicines have side effects, but sometimes they're necessary. If you have some other treatment for Addisons and autoimmune hemolytic anemia, Max's owner would love some suggestions--but so far, the only thing that's worked is the pred. We had a dog with inflammatory bowel disease. We finally controlled it with diet, but first we needed some heavy duty pred therapy to knock it under control. Nothing else worked and it did the trick. When I had my first case of asthma a few years ago, they put me on pred. I didn't like the litany of side effects, especially of course the ones I experienced, but my choice was 'prednisone' or 'not breathing'. See what I'm driving at? Sometimes, your choice is between a rock and a hard place and you have to decide based on possible benefits. By the bye, I've had one dog on Proin for about 4 years now, and we just started another on Rimadyl for a few days. Our dogs tolerate both pretty well. When we start meds, we closely evaluate the effects on the dog--if they tolerate the med well and it works, then that's half the battle. If they don't, we try a different remedy. Setters seem to be ultrasensitive to some things (erythromicin is one) and not so much to others, so we try to pick and choose the safest options for them. But just because a side effect is listed as possible, doesn't make it probable or even likely... So with any meds, you have to weigh benefits against possible consequences and decide from there. Just my
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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WEB ADDRESS for some answers I just found
Don't know if you can get to it, Hazel but here is the address : http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter...stone-crystal/ It will say page not found but if you see above where it has newsletters (in black)--click on that and scroll down a ways till you see December 2002--Bladder Stones + Crystals and click on it. Also find February 2009 (top article)--Diets for Special Health Needs--See dk. black words-Urinary Crystals about struvites and bottom paragraph under this heading beginning with words--In each of these conditions, etc. As I stated before--I don't know how to drag this over--if you can't get into it--maybe someone can bring it over for you! One thing I just found out (and I was wondering about this before) that the infection can cause the ph to be high and comes back down when the infection is gone! It sure irritates me
that my vet didn't tell me this because he knew I was especially concerned about the ph reading being 9 when my Max had his infection. Next time I see him---I'm going to mention it! Anyway, hope you see the info one way or another! Last edited by corky/max; April 19th, 2009 at 05:03 PM. |
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The culture won't be back till tomorrow or Tuesday. They cultured because they suspect an infection, but could see no obvious signs of it (other than the high pH and stones). that they'll be able to pinpoint a cause when the culture comes back. Meanwhile, they're using the cranberry supplements.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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