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Old April 26th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Frankie's dad Frankie's dad is offline
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Raw dog food VS. Kibble

When me and my Fiance Amanda first rescued our Great Dane Frankenstein when he was 12 weeks old, we went through hell trying to get his bathroom habits down.

Once that was under control, we focused on his diet. Many breeders as well as the rescue organization we got him from recommended Neutro Lamb & Rice. Thats what we gave him for almost a year.

We switched because his stool was NEVER solid.

So we switched again. Very slowly introducing new kibble after new kibble. Some of which being: Oven Baked tradition, and Eagle Pack Lamb (purple bag)

Nothing worked.

Then the girls at my pet food store recommended that i try raw food made by mountain dog food.

They all swore by raw food. They claimed that it would cure his chronic diareah and there is no slow introduction needed. All i had to do is stop feeding him kibble, and start with the raw food and it would help right away.

They also went into the whole "raw food is natural, and thats what they ate in the wild etc"

So i switched to chicken with bone in. (All the food comes with bone in, no matter what type of meat protein you are feeding.) Sure enough immediately his stool became solid.

We were very happy. The only problem is, it worked too well. Now he was constipated. So after months of trying to balance the food with vitamins and supplements, we finally noticed that his stool was just crumbly. And he was still straining like crazy to push it out. This was not good either.

This is when we noticed a red cherry like mass protruding from his ass.

My Fiance thought it was a hemroid.

After having our vet tell us that it was nothing and let us leave very unsure of what it was, we decided to get a second and third opinion.

Both of the other two vets informed us that it could be a cancerous mass but recommended that it be removed regardless.

We had it surgically remove and biopsy-ed and the result was; a tear in the intestine where a piece of stool got lodged and caused a bad infection. So bad that it literally poked out of his ass on a regular basis.

Both vets concluded that the tear in the intestine most likely occured due to the bone in his raw food diet.

So,...Now we are feeding him a vet brand: Medical Gastro formula for sensitive stomachs and, the results are miraculous.

No more 20 minute meal preparations 3 times a day, less money spent on all the supplements, vitamins, minerals, and oils that needed to be mixed with it, he is happy and healthy, and the best part,...

His **** is beautiful!!!!!!!

No more Diareah, and its from an easy to feed kibble!
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Old April 26th, 2010, 08:45 PM
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luckypenny luckypenny is offline
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Welcome to pets.ca, Frankie's dad.

Unfortunately, there are many commercially raw prepared diets that aren't the best of quality, just like you find with kibble and canned. The one you were feeding sounds like it contained way too much bone. Did you ever verify the bone/meat/organ ratio it contained? Well-researched home prepared raw permits you to be sure of the quality and quantity of the food fed. I'd suggest you go that route if you ever choose to feed raw again.

Care to show a pic of the opposite end of your pup too ?
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Old April 27th, 2010, 03:26 PM
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I am a hard core rawfeeder, I've used Mountain Dog Food and was soooo not impressed. It is very high in bone. It caused bloody stools here.
But this is a ground product and should not have caused a perforation.
Its possible the tear and subsequent infection could be completely unrelated to food.

Anyways, I prefer making my own raw since I can adjust % as need be. I also do not grind, and find my dogs digest it better. I stick to the 80/10/10 model and adjust for each dog. It requires a little more research and work but the results are beyond worth it. Plus I also have a vet who is very comfortable with me feeding raw. She even says that dogs tend to stay much healthier when on raw as opposed to kibble.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 03:28 PM
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Oh here are the ingredients for Medi Cal Gastro. Choosing your pets food is a personal decision.


Corn, Rice, Lamb Meal, Potato Protein, Dried Egg Powder, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavour, Flax Meal, Cranberry Meal, Monopotassium Phosphate, Pea Fibre, Salt, Fish Oil, Sodium Silico Aluminate (Zeolite), Calcium Carbonate, Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Bacillus Subtilis Dried Fermentation Extract, Choline Chloride, Brewer’s Yeast Extract (Source of Mannan-Oligosaccharides), Vitamins (DL-Alpha-Tocopherol [Source of Vitamin E], L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate [Source of Vitamin C], Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement and Vitamin D3 Supplement), Trace Minerals (Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate and Sodium Selenite), L-Glutamine, L-Carnitine and Beta-Carotene. Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid.

Last edited by Ford; April 27th, 2010 at 09:09 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 04:22 PM
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mummummum mummummum is offline
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A tear in his intestine protruding from his anus but not a hemorrhoid? Odd.

Medical Gastro is not a food I would consider
The reason your dog's stools have firmed up is simple. The dog is getting a huge amount of filler and very little usable protein. Corn, pea fibre, rice, flax ~ all that stuff is filler and fibre. None of it is of much value nutrionally.

Last edited by Ford; April 27th, 2010 at 09:10 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2010, 08:19 PM
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flipgirl4 flipgirl4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by List View Post
I am a hard core rawfeeder, I've used Mountain Dog Food and was soooo not impressed. It is very high in bone. It caused bloody stools here.
But this is a ground product and should not have caused a perforation.
Its possible the tear and subsequent infection could be completely unrelated to food.

Anyways, I prefer making my own raw since I can adjust % as need be. I also do not grind, and find my dogs digest it better. I stick to the 80/10/10 model and adjust for each dog. It requires a little more research and work but the results are beyond worth it. Plus I also have a vet who is very comfortable with me feeding raw. She even says that dogs tend to stay much healthier when on raw as opposed to kibble.
The Mountain Dog Food is not ground bone - it's in pieces. I bought a couple of pounds and had to grind it for my small dog. You can buy the small breed kind with the bone ground up but the store where I bought it didn't have any at the time and I didn't want to buy a whole box if my dog didn't like it. So what happened to the OP's dog could have very well been a perforation. There is too much bone in MDF IMHO and that was evident by the crumbly stool.

I feed Nature's Variety Raw food and it has been great. At one point, I fed Hill's c'd due to crystals but gave up after the mountains of poop that resulted. You ust have to find a food that is balanced and good for your dog.

However, if the gastro is working for your dog, then that's great. I just don't want people to think raw is all bad. I'm glad that you have found the solution!
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Old April 28th, 2010, 10:49 AM
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I have two great danes and they are both raw fed and doing fantastic. I am not a fan of the premade diets due to the price that it would cost me to feed two extra large dogs. I feed what alot of people refer to as a prey model diet. This way I control the size of the food that is going in as well. I can hand my danes a quarter or half a chicken and let them work for their meal and chew away at the bones breaking them down and chewing them up not swallowing bones that may or may not have been grounded small enough or left jagged by the grounding process. Havoc had the same issue with his poop never really becoming solid...he always had kind of pudding poop when he was on kibble and he has some allergies as well that we always battled with. Raw was the best thing to happen for my boy. He now has solid poop...and if they appear too solid I know he needs less bone and more muscle meat...so I can change it up and give him what he needs. He is filling in nicely, he has more energy, seems more satisfied and content after meals, he is not reacting as far as his allergies go (he still has some reactions unfortunately it is not a fix all..but it is much better), his teeth are healthier and cleaner and it is less expensive than kibble and he is getting a waaaay healthier diet without all the fillers. Now I agree that sometimes weird things can happen and we will never know 100% why they do and raw will not and does not work for everyone...but I love it and will never again have another dog in my home on a kibble diet. Even my 3.7 lbs yorkie eats raw and loves it!!

Definately sorry to hear what happened to your boy...but I do agree as well that mountain dog food did not impress me much either...I used to work at a boarding kennel and one dog ate it there and it just did not seem like a well made raw diet.
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Old April 28th, 2010, 11:25 AM
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I am also not a fan of premade raw. It is wayyyy over priced and have found, like you, too much bone, causing constipation.

I make my own raw, carefully weighing the bone/muscle meat/organs. It gives me control over the quality and quantity of the ingredients.

I take the same care feeding my pets as I did my child and do my husband, feeding them the ingredients that are the best for their health so very, very little processed food .
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Old April 28th, 2010, 05:49 PM
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I have had very good luck with MDF.

MDF, to keep the cost down, only grinds the meat ONCE hence the large chunks of bone. I was informed by my pet store that only Brynn, my 50 lb boxer, would be suitable to feed it to. They told me to never feed it to my littles for that very reason - it has huge chunks of bone in it since it is only ground once. For my littles, I always buy raw that has been TRIPLE ground.

I would also never feed my dog just ONE type of pre-made raw. I regularly switch between MDF, Carnivora, and Legacy to offer variety, as well as giving my dogs meat I purchase from farmers, butchers, the grocery store etc. Maybe the OP could have stayed on MDF, but would have had more luck adding some of his own meat as well to get the stools firm?

I don't think MDF is the BEST choice for pre-made raw, but I think for the price point it's not bad. It's nothing fancy - I can only buy it here in turkey or chicken, and they are in bulk packs so you have to portion out the amount of meat yourself, you can't just unthaw a hamburger size patty, but I have found it works great for Brynn. I find with a lot of pre-made raw you are paying for the convenience (i.e. getting it in patties, medallions etc.)

I agree with MMM, MediCal Gastro is not the best food to be feeding your dog - lots of fillers etc. and the same old arguments. But I suppose whatever works best for your dog.

Sometimes it takes some time to get the perfect portions of raw figured out for a dog. If his stool was too crumbly, he obviously needed more meat in the diet and less bone. Yes, most meat contains bone, but the proportions of meat to bone just needed to be altered to the correct ratio until firm stools were achieved. It probably took me a solid month or so to get my dog's poop's perfect.
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Last edited by cassiek; April 28th, 2010 at 05:53 PM.
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