New Pit Bull Co-op Thread

[babyrocky1]

Well everyone, I thought I would start fresh with this subject and see whats up with the old gang and also see if anyone new is interested, Heres a bit of an up-date. Months ago, a bunch of us who were struggling to find ideas of coping with this horrible ban, came up with the idea of forming a group of pittie owners who were interested in meeting and socialising our pups. We were all feeling that our dogs were becoming un-socialized and for many of us, especially those of us in Toronto who had no access to fenced yards, we were becoming increasingly isolated. Kayla and Rocky had a great date, but other than that, all though we all had lofty intentions, it never got off the ground. I think one problem is that logistically we are all quite far apart. It seems, as well, that many of the original group have found other accomodation that is better suited to their doggy needs!
The Londoners seem to have gotten their "Bow Wow Pow Wows" going quite regualrly. So this post is to see if us Torontonians can revive our original plans or find other ways of promoting this idea. I am really concerned about Rocky, I took him to Queen West last night and he was barking like crazy at strange dogs! He is losing his social skills and the whole walk was really stressfull! I know its because he doesn't meet new dogs anymore and its gone on for so long now. I would still like to meet up with others, even for on leash walks at first. I do have some good news. I always had the use of the fenced yard by the water, but now the community centre across the street has given me permission to use an old daycare playground that no one uses anymore. Its fenced ofcourse, and has a slide in it that I have taught Rocky to go up and down. He also plays Kong there. I now have the means to exercise him properly but he really needs the socializaiton. I was also thinking it might be fun, once were organized, to chip in and hire trainers to come and work with us the odd time. Maybe we could form our own performing Pit Bull Group LOL .....SOOOOO whats up with everyone else...."Any ideas"????

[babyrocky1]

Im also thinking of making posters and putting them up at the local vets and pet stores.! I think we need lots of small groups so that we all have people near our neighbourhoods but we could stay connected for political lobbys and info sharing.... Emotional support as well, ofcourse.

[seeker]

Babyrocky I think this is a great idea but if I can make a suggestion keep it "low keyed" You do't want this idea squashed by some uninformed do-gooder conformist . Get the word out but be careful how you spread that word.

Just my thoughts .

[LL1]

Someone could call THS and ask to use their fenced areas,maybe a set time that would work for people?Someone posted and said they had emailed and were ignored,I would call and ask to speak to the president directly to ask.

[babyrocky1]

We will do that but some of us aren't that close to the Humane Society, I know that they have bought some agility equipment etc. I heard Linda, can't remember her last name, on Animal House Calls talking about it, but it seems to me that they would need the yard most of the time. Also since I now have the use of a fenced yard, at least for the forseeable future, I am hoping to make some play dates for that yard. I know there are others looking at alternatives for these same issues. Someone from the DLCC is interested as well as someone I know who runs a commercial enterprise. My idea to start out though is just to get a few people together, just like the people from London have, Once our dogs meet and we can judge on leash how they will get along, we could start to make off-leash play dates. It seems, so far, that there are not enough of us on this bard who live close enough to make alot of meetings feesible. Thats why I am wondering how to do some outreach. Maybe some of the other boards. BTW I also have a possiblility of getting large indoor space. Seeker is right about keeping it somewhat low key, if my neighbours started to see a gathering of ten pit bulls at a time on a regular basis you can bet theyd be making trouble. A few dogs at a time would be no problem though. Since theyre all getting used to there muzzles, maybe just meeting up for leashed walks would be helpful for the dogs. They would at least see other dogs wearing dumb stuff on there faces

[babyrocky1]

BTW, Im interested to see if you guys that work with rescues or are trainers have any suggestions on how to do this, socializing new dogs together. I have always found that walking my guy parallell with the new dog has been enough but I don't have the experience to really know.

[love my dogs]

babyrock I really hope you can get something going there. It's great that you have a whole playground....but not so nice that there are no playmates for your baby. So sad to picture the lonely little (or not so little) pit in the playground with no other doggies to play with.....it's enough to make me want to take Duke for a little drive to make a new friend.

I will definately bring Duke next time I visit T.O., and I will let you know in advance when that will be.

I told my bro and his gf about you,.....but I guess where they live is wayyyy at the other end....not near the harbour at all. Still, I will bring Duke and we can plan a play date.

Geez....come on T.O.....you really should listen to babyrock, these play times are so special and important to our poor little muzzeld pups, and you've got the space to do it!!!!!

[babyrocky1]

Hey thanks for the kind words Love My Dogs! It would be great to meet one of the now infamous London Gang LOL!!!!! Well that explains why I couldn't think of the Mexican restaraunt you were talking about. Did you guys have any trouble at all getting your pups socialized with one another? It sure didn't look or sound like you did. Rocky is a somewhat dominant male and hasn't had off leash play with any dogs except for Kayla, of Kayla and me, and his lab friends who he has known for years, for a VERY long time! Mostly due to this media and ban hype, but he loves dog play, he just needs to get in the "swing of things again" He did great with Kayla, but he does :love: the girls LOL. It might take him a bit longer to get used to another male, walking them together would be no problem though. If your guy is not dominant it would be all good. Rocky is almost seven. How old is Duke.?

[love my dogs]

Duke will be one year on Nov. 11, and he is extremely HUGE!

He likes to be in charge, but is quite adaptable to other dogs' play styles, and will usually submit to a more dominant male because he knows that play time will stop if he doesn't.

We are finding it is best to let them play 2 at a time, while the others sit with their moms on a leash, that way it is easier to control them, and they don't get carried away.

Some of them play better with a leash on, (especially as they are just getting to know eachother) so we can quickly remind them of what is acceptable and polite.

If they get too rowdy, the play stops for a minute or two.

The key is to remember this is part of training them how to behave with other dogs. So lots of treats and praise for friendly non-aggressive play, and immediate removal from play if they become aggressive.

Since Duke is still really a pup, he likes the wrestle and tumble type play.

[pitbulliest]

THS offleash parks are off limits to the public...

I would strongly advise against even thinking of going there. The dogs in the shelter are in a shelter environment...that means that many may have kennel cough...the chances of your dog getting sick are higher..why take the risk?

Also, the dogs at THS need those parks..please be considerate..there are dog walkers on duty at most hours of the day taking the animals out.....which are of course, in desperate need of exercise and socialization....if the public were to start using the parks, the THS animals would have nowhere to go..there are already walkers waiting in line to use the park at certain times of the day, as no more than 1 dog is allowed inside the fenced in area....

[pitbulliest]

Sorry to double post....

Babyrocky..where would you like a group to meet up at? Would it be in downtown somewhere? I don't personally know of too many parks downtown, but I know tons in Etobicoke....that may be much quieter and not as busy as the ones downtown...the only problem is there aren't that many fenced-in parks...

Anyways, I'm interested in finding out where you guys would be willing to meet up and during what days...maybe if we made a schedule or something? We'd probably be more likely to stick with it...I'm a student, plus I work 30 hours a week...so my time is limited...

[LL1]

The agility equipment is nice,and there are a couple fenced areas.Its nice when it is hot and they have the pools there for the dogs to splash in.I would not really worry about disease if your pets are healthy and vaccinated,they also walk THS dogs around the block and other people walk their dogs there all the time.Rescuers also bring their own dogs to assess shelter dogs all the time.If you do decide to check out that option I would call Tim direct.I have been there many times when the fenced areas are empty,he may consider a set time for one of the enclosures at a set time that works for a group.

Originally Posted by babyrocky1

We will do that but some of us aren't that close to the Humane Society, I know that they have bought some agility equipment etc. I heard Linda, can't remember her last name, on Animal House Calls talking about it, but it seems to me that they would need the yard most of the time. ck:

[babyrocky1]

Originally Posted by love my dogs

Duke will be one year on Nov. 11, and he is extremely HUGE!

He likes to be in charge, but is quite adaptable to other dogs' play styles, and will usually submit to a more dominant male because he knows that play time will stop if he doesn't.

We are finding it is best to let them play 2 at a time, while the others sit with their moms on a leash, that way it is easier to control them, and they don't get carried away.

Some of them play better with a leash on, (especially as they are just getting to know eachother) so we can quickly remind them of what is acceptable and polite.

If they get too rowdy, the play stops for a minute or two.

The key is to remember this is part of training them how to behave with other dogs. So lots of treats and praise for friendly non-aggressive play, and immediate removal from play if they become aggressive.

Since Duke is still really a pup, he likes the wrestle and tumble type play.

Lovemy Dogs, it sounds like you are comfortable with this kind of thing which is great, a few days ago I met a pit owner in the park and I asked if we could socialize our dogs, at first Rocky was a little roudy, so I pulled him back, put him in a sit, corrected him, and gave him the "friendly command" he was great after that. The thing is, in most cases, if my dog barks, the other owner immediately freaks out and then the experience is negative. I have always left Rockys leash on when he plays, just gives me more peace of mind. Two dogs at a time seems totally reasonable, and I think its good discipline for the other dogs to wait there turn. Sounds like you guys have a really good system!

Pitbulliest, I am at Harbourfront, near Bathurst, I have access to a fenced yard. The community centre has given me permission to use it. I know what your saying schedule wise, itll be tough for sure, I have weird hours, I work alot of evenings and Sundays as well. Im usually opposite to everyone else. I don't drive and Im sure that the scheduling etc. was why we didn't get it off the ground last time. Also some of the folks were going through major moves. So we'll see, I've posted this on one other site, but Im taking it slow as Seeker suggested. We ve all been chatting for quite some time so I feel very comfortable that we are all resposible owners but I guess if I were to just put up posters we might end up with some "undesirables" lol Were do you go to school, is it Downtown?

As far as the Humane Society goes, I don't see any harm in having a conversation with them, if they can't accomodate us Itotally understand, however, it might be good to touch base with them anyways, if these "pit bull" groups catch on, and I know that alot of different people are talking about doing this, then its good for Pitties in general and maybe it will make it easier for people to feel like they can adopt. You all know how it is when you feel alone with this thing, gosh I was just going out to do some errands tonight and I ran into one of the Pit Bull haters that I complain about, because I was caught off guard I did the polite thing and held the elevator open for her to get in it, she just gave me a dirty look and waited for the door to shut, no big deal, shes just passive agressive LOL but got me going again for another hour or so! Shes now walking dogs for money someone must have hired her that lives in my building....they will be hearing about it from me. Anyway maybe the humane society would have some ideas for hooking people up, maybe New Pittie Parents LOL!

[pitbulliest]

babyrocky..I go to school at the Erindale campus..in Mississauga..but I work at THS so I go downtown often enough to know my way around....that's not really a concern as the highway is right next to my apartment building..lol...

LL1...I'm going to PM you something about THS...I don't know what organization you work with..but its quite important...

[LL1]

Thank you,got it and replied.

[Spurby]

I live close to downtown, and use the Don valley for long walks, it's a ravine setting, and very nice. It doesn't matter that there aren't any fenced in off-lead parks downtown(there are a couple) since come Oct29, we bully owners cannot legally use them. I would suggest first meeting up for the leashed walks, so the dogs can get used to each other gradually, then maybe the ones that do well with each other, can graduate to the off-lead area that Babyrocky is talking about, provided it is a safe/legal place for the bullies I asked the THS previously about using their fenced in areas, i was told i could, as long as the shelter dogs were finished with their walks.

Originally Posted by pitbulliest

Sorry to double post....

Babyrocky..where would you like a group to meet up at? Would it be in downtown somewhere? I don't personally know of too many parks downtown, but I know tons in Etobicoke....that may be much quieter and not as busy as the ones downtown...the only problem is there aren't that many fenced-in parks...

Anyways, I'm interested in finding out where you guys would be willing to meet up and during what days...maybe if we made a schedule or something? We'd probably be more likely to stick with it...I'm a student, plus I work 30 hours a week...so my time is limited...

[LoNScamp]

I attended a community audit last week. Two of my neighbours complained to the constituency assistant and the police that were there of two incidents of pits being off leash one was in the off leash area of the park the other was in an area not designated as off leash.

One complaint had some justification, in that the dog was off leash in an area not designated to be such, and the owener and a couple of his friends were not paying attention to the dog, they were busy smoking up and drinking.

The second one is quite ironic. The owner has a Wheaton/Poodle cross and two young children he was going on about the pit being off leash and his kids being in the park. The irony of his complaint is his medium sized Wheaton cross has attacked other male dogs in the park. The pot calling the kettle black. He was also going on about the dog not being neutered (my personal opinion all dogs should be neutured and spayed). I have had numerous discussions with him about his not wanting to get his dog neutered because it is not "natural". I understand from someone else that he did get the dog neutered. He was also into the "my dog shouldn't be on a leash, it's not natural". Last time I saw him the dog was on a leash.

The cops response was, can you tell if a dog is a pit bull, I can't. One of the bike cops that was there and patrols the park piped up and said that he had a pit bull and that there was nothing wrong with his dog. The gist of the conversation, at least in 14 division is that the pit bull legislation is not a priority for the cops. Why would it be? I would think murders, robberies, assualts would take priority.

The women who was complaining about the pit and guys in the area not designated as off leash said she called the cops a couple of time and was told that they would get there when they could, which meant never.

It may depend on the cops, the area etc. but I got the definite impression that pit bulls defenitely were not a priority.

I don't have a pit, but I do have a GSD (the dog recorded as biting the most) and would be willing to walk with anyone who is interested. I'm centrally located.

Also, Parks and Rec. have 9 week classes, for $60. There is a beautiful 9 month old pit in my class. He was rescued from a dumpster at 6 months. Great owners, he had liesions on his body and was extremly under weight. He now has a beautiful coat, and is healthy. He is the class clown.

I also know a trainer who would most likely be willing to work with the group at a reduced rate.

[Me and Kayla]

Just getting caught up on my reading. Great idea Babyrocky (the fenced community center yard), and of course you know you can count me in. I've been fairly lucky since we last got together, with a local lady who owns a GSD. Her dog is 6, overweight, arthritic and slow, and she was so happy to have someone who would walk with her, that she has embraced Kayla as a companion for her Cleo. They spend as much indoor time together as they do outdoor time. However, as you remember, Kayla is a high energy dog. So occasionally she wears Cleo down until she snaps at Kayla, and then thats the end of the play. Kayla will walk with any dog and not bother at all. She far more interested in Squirrel hunting on walks and doesn't pay them any real attention. But, it's the off-leash, off muzzle time that I am really interested in, because then she gets to burn a little energy. I do agree with introducing them on a leash first though. We did that and it worked out great with Rocky and Kayla.

I'm pretty flexible with hours these days, but setting up a schedule would give us all something to work with. Are there any legal issues with using the community center? Do they want us to sign waivers?

Me and Kayla

[Luvmypit]

Hey ya'll


As I Pm'd babyrocky just letting the rest know that I now live in Ajax but am willing to come down whenever possible. So I would like to be kept in the loop so I can at least have the option of meeting up.

As for capone he is also good at walking paralell and has only had off leash play with a puppy (lab) and my 4 year old yellow lab (at my moms). At that was quite some time ago. So for me getting capone up to socializing standards during this ban would be so beneficial for him. I think if we meet up at a park for the first couple times and walk together that way the dog knows that their parents are friends and feels no tension then that would certianly help.

I must say when I did walk capone with the lab puppy he was so good I couldn't believe it. Due to the fact that the lab every couple steps would jump up to pone's snout and nip him. Capone kept his head straight the whole time and paid no mind.

I think capone is also an alpha but at the same time submits often to older dogs when on walks. it really depends.

Its such a good idea so please keep me informed as Ajax is not that far at all and if Im not busy I would love to come join. Maybe we can get the toronto crew together one day with the London crew. That would be awesome too.

Please don't mind any typos, I am too lazy to fix them...

[babyrocky1]

Are there any legal issues with using the community center? Do they want us to sign waivers?

Me and Kayla[/QUOTE] I assumed you would be interested and Kayla and me and Im really looking forward to seeing you and Kayla again. Spurby is also quite near you from what I can tell. It seems to me that the more people that are interested, the more the word will spread, and eventually we will have a "registry of names" and we will have at least a few people in alot of different areas. After talking with another member about the community centre yard, I now don't know if it is legal... I do have permission from the director to use it, however, someone pointed out that it is public property. They thought that this might meen it is off limits, there is also the yard that I refer to as "secret" which is owned by the city but has no tresspassing signs, and "private property signs. I have permission to use that too so it might be more "legal" to start out with, the safest thing might be to just have a couple of dogs at a time, I have been taking Rocky to both yards every day. He wears his muzzle to and fro sometimes. Does anyone know how we can clarrify whether this is "legal enogh" Since getting permission was so easy I didn't want to make a big issue about it. I just asked if I could they said yes. I said I need to be able to tell an official I have permission to be in the yard, they said no problem. Im thinking the worse that can happen is that my dear neighbours complain and AC tells me I cant be there. I see cops every day that I go. BTW I think Im in 14 division.

[babyrocky1]

Im not very familiar with anything east of Yonge, I got lost looking for the pet store that I bought my muzzle from LOL but from what I can invision, the Humane Society, the one on River Street is kind of close to Kayla and Me and Spurby, but I could be totaly off with that. Pitbulliest works there, So if I can get there, that might be a possibility, also, Small Wonders Pet Store, is near Spurby and I think near Kayla and Me. Maybe another possibility, Pitbulliest, you drive so parking might be the only problem for you. If we cant all meet at once I don't think thats a problem, it might even be easier on the dogs to walk just a few at a time. I am again working under dead line BUT, this is so important to me that I will book a day of work here, to do it if Ihave to. Sundays are totally out for me, I take 2 classes and teach one, Sat. afternoon and eve, are okay but I would prefer after dark, I need the daylight hours to work, but dark will be very early starting this wkend. I have weekday afternoons, and Monday after seven and Tuesday all day, unless I have set up a meeting. If you guys could come down to my end at least for the leashed walk, that would help because I don't know how Rocky will do on a longer bus trip with the muzzle, he is no where near ready to deal with that. Im also wondering if we meet up at the humane society if there is a place, even in the lobby, that we can take the muzzles of, just for a break for them, or do they have to be muzzled in the lobby? BTW I dont think I have any of your phone numbers anymore, except for Kayla and me, I know I have that one somewhere, so if you want to pm me with the numbers that would be good. Pitbulliest, if your driving from the Humane Society, my place is not far at all. LoNscamp, thanks for the info, you and your pup can be an honorary Pit bull Co-op memeber if you like, LOL

[pitbulliest]

babyrocky...how about we start off by posting our availability..since you have already posted yours, here is mine....:

Sat and Sun NO WAY - working at THS 10 hr shift each day!
Mon - Available at any time pretty much
Tues - Have classes AND working after school...so NO WAY.
Wed - Available after 4pm
Thurs - Not available. I have to study SOME time..lol plus I work after 4pm.
Fri - Available at any time pretty much.

If I'm NOT available, I would let everyone know way beforehand that I either can't make it or whatever...but for now that's my sched...

[pitbulliest]

Sorry for double posting..but I was wondering if you guys would be interested in me creating some kind of an agenda or posting a schedule on the pitbullproject.ca website for everyone to view..and maybe if we posted our availabilities and contact information..like cell number or email or something..and we can make "meeting dates" that way alot easier...if you guys have some idea or format...or gawd ANYTHING..lol let me know so that we can get this rolling..i'd be more than happy to make a section specifically for that on the site....

[babyrocky1]

Thats really great of you to offer Pitbulliest, but, my opinion is that we should get it started first. We now have you, me, Luvmypit, Kayla and Me, Spurby, LoNscamp, .... maybe Jono sometimes, and we havent heard from Dukie Boy yet. I think we should start hooking up with one another as soon as possible and get a few things ironed out first. We are now unsure of how legal my off leash space is, we have not resolved the humane society issue, and , for me, I at least need a few practice runs with Rocky, cause hes not ready for long ttc. rides yet. Some of our dogs have not socialized much, and not at all with their muzzles on, so it seems to me the best thing to do might be to start small but start soon. After we have had a few meet ups we can then choose to advertise this to a larger audience. so far its here and at Bullies in Need. We probably should discuss how people who no one knows should be invited into the group. Suppose we end up with people who are not responsible owners...I think theres still some stuff to be worked out before we get too big. I also want to get a feel for how the enforcement of the ban is going to go. What do others think? I think its a great idea to have everyones availability posted. BTW do you now if it would be okay for some of the meet ups to start at the humane society, can the dogs be unmuzzled in the lobby?

[pitbulliest]

Unfortunately, the dogs have to be muzzled in the lobby of the building....because its considered a "public" place.... in the offleash areas, they can be unmuzzled..but its only one dog at a time..if the general public wanted to use the offleash parks...then we'd have to organize that somehow...I guess you'd have to contact Tim Trow about that..like LL1 mentioned...or Vijay...he's the shelter supervisor...he would probably just refer anyone to Tim anyways...

I wonder if there is any way we can "rent out" space at a local offleash area that is designated to "pitbulls" at specific times..that would probably be expensive though...

[jesse's mommy]

I just have to comment that I think it's absolutely horrible what is being done to Pit Bulls there and wish that I could be there to help you all fight your battle. I too have a pit bull mix and fortunately live in the states where it hasn't quite reached here yet (but there are areas that it has). I don't know why these people can't understand any dog can be mean just like any dog can be nice. It's all in how you raise them. I've seen poodles that are meaner than my pit bull and I don't see anyone throwing a muzzle on them or banning people from owning them. I do know the humane society the next town over has puppies with pit in them and they refuse to adopt them out to anyone. Basically they will be putting these harmless puppies down. I offered a friend that wants one that I would go with him and start crying in front of them and make them feel bad and see if that helps (that's what I did to the humane society here, and it worked), but he declined -- though I left the offer open. I just don't understand why people are so close-minded on things. In order to move forward, we need to think outside of the box and focus on where the problems start -- with bad owners who aren't willing to take the time or energy to train their dog, whether it is a pit, a poodle, or any other breed. Maybe they should license owners and put microchips of approval in them before they move forward in banning these breeds. Thanks for letting me vent and I'm behind all of you 100%. Good luck and keep me updated!

[babyrocky1]

This "public place" stuff has me really nervouse, I thought I was fine in the old day care playground, now I don't know. I don't even know if im okay in my building, but I cant muzzle him in there. He socializes with all of his people friends in the halls. We are a co-op, so we collectively own the buildiing. We determine our bi-laws in a democratic fashion. We are PRIVATE PROPERTY and since we have pet bi-laws that do not include muzzling, we have, by democratic means, decided to not have pets muzzled, and if such a bi-law were to change it would have to be done in the regular fashion, by our members. To change a bi-law it requires 75% of the membership. That would NEVER happen. So I believe that covers the permission of others in regards to shared enclosures....but hell, I dont know! who does!? Is a Community Centres DAYCARE playground public property? I actually dont think so, but I don't want to draw attention to myself by questioning the wrong person. (this daycare and play ground are no longer in use by anyone.) I know the cops couldn't care less but I think what Seeker was warning against is a bunch of us being together might look as if were training our dogs to fight or something to some DUMB A$$ people. The other property is only a few feet away. it is a large fenced yard and is owned by the city, there are NO TRESPASSING signs all over the place, and I have permission to be there too. It is not visible to the neighbourhood like the day care yard, but the police boats go by.

[Me and Kayla]

BAbyrocky, I would think that a community center is funded by municipal $'s, hence it would be considered public property. I would also think that anyone with private property who was willing to let us use the property would also want us to sign some kind of waiver, absolving them of any responsibility for damages. Just my opinion.

I too am not too thrilled about taking Kayla back into the HS environment even if it means a muzzle free playtime. Each time she has had to be in the HS, she ended up with bad bouts of kennel cough.

Me and Kayla

[love my dogs]

Doesn't anyone have a fenced yard at their home?

[babyrocky1]

So far, no or not big enough to use. I am really flipped out now! Every day I take him to these yards, I muzzle him, only that far. There is no other option!!! When I talked to the DLCC, I told them I had verbal permission, they said that was okay???? I don't know what to do now. The yards are my life line.