Coping with Cancer

[otter]

I really wish this was a thread where I could be asking you how to get rid of this crappy disease but, I think i'm more looking for some coping mechanisms and to learn from some of your experiences (personal or anecdotal) with cancer.

The story... My Molly - a 10 yr old Golden Retriever who I adopted 1.5 years ago, was diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma a little over a week ago. She'd been losing weight and her appetite over that past few weeks and when she totally started turning her nose up at food of any kind, off we were to the vet. The vet felt a mass in her tummy, we did x-rays to confirm the mass, blood tests and physical symptoms (pale gums, significant weightloss, muscle wasting, inappetence) plus her age and breed all pointed to hemangiosarcoma.

There is no "cure"...
Surgery and Chemo are the normal route of treatment but... if this is for sure hemangiosarcoma we aren't going that route - it can only buy us some time and it might not be the best quality of time (long surgery recovery, side effects of chemo, time in hospital, etc.)

So, i'm struggling.....

[Shaykeija]

I am so sorry you are facing this. Give Molly a huge hug for me....

[hazelrunpack]

All you can do is spoil her rotten and love her to bits.

Try to stay positive and strong. She'll pick up on your sorrow but she won't understand it, because she's living, not dying. I'm always struck by how they take everything as it comes. So accepting.

For us it's different. How to cope? Tell yourself there will be time enough to mourn later, that now is the time to celebrate Life.

And when it hurts so bad that you just have to let it out, cuddling is not incompatible with crying. Molly will understand that you want to be close, even if she doesn't understand why.

[otter]

No one seems to talk about cases where dogs are diagnosed with cancer and the owner just wants to make the best of time they have. Now, it's not that I don't want to have her live as long as possible, I absolutely do and will do absolutely anything that will give her a longer good quality life. I don't think surgery and chemo will do this and neither does Molly's current vet :sad:.

I feel like i've given up... but I haven't. I want her to live forever, just like she is when she is happy and feeling good.

Can anyone offer any experience or advice what it's like to live a dog that you know is dying? We've got the "live every moment as if it's the last" part down pat... though I do worry I might just spoil her to death too. How much of "normal" do we need to maintain?

[pbpatti]

I can only offer my support that your family and Molly have the best time left. Give her your love and cuddles, she will return them to you fourfold and let you know that she is so thankful that she had you. pbp

[pbpatti]

You can never spoil her too much!!!! Love her like you always have, if she misbehaves, scold her, that is also love! If she just wants to sit with you let her, she will take everything that you can give her and more. pbp

[aslan]

otter i can't tell you what it's like to live with a terminal pup but i have dealt with several friends dying from HIV. Live each day to the fullest, love her, play with her. and if you need to fall apart for a few minutes, take a walk outside, or a shower. you need some sad time but not around her. Enjoy each and every moment you can, and come here to your friends and yell and rant and rave about how unfair it is. We're all here to listen.

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by otter

How much of "normal" do we need to maintain?

I think you need to do whatever you feel like at this point. What's normal for you? Do you enjoy spoiling her? I won't ask if she does , we already know the answer to that.

Do you remember how you felt with Chloe? How you spent those last few months, weeks?

And don't ever feel guilty for letting nature take it's course, Otter. There is no "giving up" in a situation such as this.

[hazelrunpack]

Dogs do appreciate routine. So if you can stick to a more or less normal routine, that's a good thing. With extra loving and treats thrown in, of course. As Cuz-oriented as she is, the closer you can stick to her play schedule, even if it's just lying down chewing on a Cuz, the better.

You might feel like you've given up...but you haven't. You're helping her live well during the time she has left. Everything living dies, otter--you can't help that. Much as we'd like to, none of us can. Life depends on Death...always has. It's a habit billions of years old and it's too late to break it now. But you're there to watch over her and help her when she needs it. What a wonderful gift that is, to be able to help her over the rough spots. You're her .

[otter]

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

Try to stay positive and strong. She'll pick up on your sorrow but she won't understand it, because she's living, not dying. I'm always struck by how they take everything as it comes. So accepting.

That's a really good thing to remember... she is living, not dying!! I gotta write that one on the wall

For us it's different. How to cope? Tell yourself there will be time enough to mourn later, that now is the time to celebrate Life.

So true... so hard.... I hurt now, but you are sooo right

And when it hurts so bad that you just have to let it out, cuddling is not incompatible with crying. Molly will understand that you want to be close, even if she doesn't understand why.

You should see the looks I get when I squish her for no good reason, she thinks i'm losing my marbles (and maybe I am ). It's hard not to get her anxious though... when I cuddle with her she sometimes looks at me like "what the heck is wrong", though we've always cuddled it wasn't so obvious like it is now - i'm a little more prone to spontaneous snuggling now as opposed to convenient or planned snuggling of the past

[TeriM]

Otter, I absolutely and totally believe that you have made the right choice in not persuing chemo or invasive surgery for Molly. What I have read of this form of cancer it is not a good option for her. I agree with the others that all you can do is manage her pain as best as you can, feed her anything she is willing to eat and love every moment you can have together. I would keep doing as much as you can of the things she loves to do (walks, cuz etc) and crying is fine, just make sure you follow it with cuddles and belly rubs .

[hazelrunpack]

And let her lick the tears. They love the salt

Make sure you have moisturizer handy for the chapping

[otter]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Do you remember how you felt with Chloe? How you spent those last few months, weeks?

And don't ever feel guilty for letting nature take it's course, Otter. There is no "giving up" in a situation such as this.

Chloe went from healthy happy older dog to very unhappy VERY sick dog in such a short period of time... I swear she told me it was her time when it was, not a lot of thought went into it. I beat myself up for a long time for not noticing that she was getting sick but, as an afterthought, i'm almost glad I didn't. Most of my last days with Chloe weren't about living at all, they were about saying goodbye - she was sooo sick

I like how you put that "letting nature take it's course".. I guess that's about the sum of it. Mind you, I'm trying lots of things to slow nature down

Originally Posted by TeriM

Otter, I absolutely and totally believe that you have made the right choice in not persuing chemo or invasive surgery for Molly. What I have read of this form of cancer it is not a good option for her. I agree with the others that all you can do is manage her pain as best as you can, feed her anything she is willing to eat and love every moment you can have together. I would keep doing as much as you can of the things she loves to do (walks, cuz etc) and crying is fine, just make sure you follow it with cuddles and belly rubs .

Thanks

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

And let her lick the tears. They love the salt

Make sure you have moisturizer handy for the chapping

So far the cats have taken a liking to tears I won't be needing my facial this month, all that licking had done a wonder for exfoliating
Shucks... thanks for making me giggle

[hazelrunpack]

You gotta giggle or you'll go nuts! I had about 4 years there when I never giggled...and look what happened to me, hazel, madame hazel and TDFO

I never thought about it, but I guess cat tongues make excellent defoliaters, don't they? Self powered, too!

[otter]

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

You gotta giggle or you'll go nuts! I had about 4 years there when I never giggled...and look what happened to me, hazel, madame hazel and TDFO

I too have had my share of those times i'm still trying to sort out who is who though

I never thought about it, but I guess cat tongues make excellent defoliaters, don't they? Self powered, too!

Defoliaters eh? I'm not sure how effective they'd be at removing leaves from trees (defoliation, i think?) but, as far as exfoliators, they do a pretty good job

[Karin]

I lost my first rotti, Jesse, to this horrible disease. Back then there was little information about it. It was the "old, big dog disease". Since then so much more is known but the outcome is the same. And a note, it can happen in any breed, any age, any size. It seems to target the large breeds.
The only saving grace is it is rapid, by the time symptoms are present, it is quick. After losing Jesse and working for a vet we saw many more cases. Another saving grace, there was little suffering and pain.
One of our clients had a Rotti girl that needed acl surgery. They opted to go to the University of Florida Vet Medical Teaching Hospital. This is expensive but the husband works for UF. This was in March of 2000. All pre op tests are done that including rads, this is a given. She came through surgery fine, NOTHING was found on any pre ops which were extensive, we ended up putting her down 6 weeks later due to this cancer.
It is very quick. Jesse's was attached to her spleen, the vet removed it with the cancerous tumor (which was huge) but a week later she was failing so quickly we had to let go.
Know this Otter, you are doing all you can. And there is no discomfort. Please consult with Dr. Lee, I am sure there is more info out there by now.
You and Molly are in my prayers.

[TeriM]

Originally Posted by otter

Defoliaters eh? I'm not sure how effective they'd be at removing leaves from trees (defoliation, i think?) but, as far as exfoliators, they do a pretty good job

[clm]

Otter, I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hazel has had some wonderful advise though, what an amazing lady she is.

Cindy

[otter]

Originally Posted by Karin

I lost my first rotti, Jesse, to this horrible disease. Back then there was little information about it. It was the "old, big dog disease". Since then so much more is known but the outcome is the same. And a note, it can happen in any breed, any age, any size. It seems to target the large breeds.
The only saving grace is it is rapid, by the time symptoms are present, it is quick. After losing Jesse and working for a vet we saw many more cases. Another saving grace, there was little suffering and pain.
One of our clients had a Rotti girl that needed acl surgery. They opted to go to the University of Florida Vet Medical Teaching Hospital. This is expensive but the husband works for UF. This was in March of 2000. All pre op tests are done that including rads, this is a given. She came through surgery fine, NOTHING was found on any pre ops which were extensive, we ended up putting her down 6 weeks later due to this cancer.
It is very quick. Jesse's was attached to her spleen, the vet removed it with the cancerous tumor (which was huge) but a week later she was failing so quickly we had to let go.
Know this Otter, you are doing all you can. And there is no discomfort. Please consult with Dr. Lee, I am sure there is more info out there by now.
You and Molly are in my prayers.

karin, thank you so much for sharing your first hand experiences. I don't know if it's curiosity or self doubt but I have this great need to know what other people have done, are doing, etc. in similar situations, your experience in invaluable .
I'm sorry to hear about Jesse.. i'm sure surgery must have gotten your hopes up sweet boy. Molly too has a splenic tumour.

[Stacer]

I'm so sorry that Molly is not well :sad:

I don't have any advice that others have not already given, you're a good doggy mom and you know what's best for her.

Take lots of pictures and cherish her.

[Love4himies]

Oh Otter, I am so sorry to hear about Molly.

Just love and spoil her as much as you can. When you need to vent, we are here to listen.

[Chris21711]

You have done so well by Molly Otter and will continue to do so. I personally have lost three pets to cancer, all three had surgeries to remove the cancer, sadly none of them made it home from the Vet's office. To this day, I am very bitter about it. The comfort of passing at home in familiar surroundings with the people that loved them was denied them.

I know you will not let that happen to Molly

[hazelrunpack]

Originally Posted by otter

Defoliaters eh? I'm not sure how effective they'd be at removing leaves from trees (defoliation, i think?) but, as far as exfoliators, they do a pretty good job

Oh, yeah...cats are exfoliators... Dogs are defoliators! We thought our trees were being eaten by deer.

How are you doing today, otter and Molly?

[angeldogs]

I'm so sorry to hear about Molly.spoil her rotten and love her everyday and cherish every momment with her.

[bendyfoot]

Just wanted to chime in with a and to tell you breifly about my partner's experience with her first dog, Shaya. Shaya was diagnosed with terminal kidney failure (although never 100% sure, it was presumed to be due to cancer) at the age of 6 and was given about 6 months to live. Although surgery and chemo were not options DW did everything she could think of to prolong her time with her beloved girl, from sub-q fluids to medications, to special diets to constant vet visits and pain killers and...in the end, nothing could be done and her heart was still broken when she finally had to say goodbye. She told me later that, if she had to go through it all again (god forbid), she wouldn't have tried all the "heroic measures" that were offered to her. She just would have enjoyed each day, spoiled Shaya rotten, let her eat anything she wanted, and listened better when Shaya was telling her it was time. 5+ years later, she still holds that view. It's never an easy decision, but sometimes the treatments are harder on our pets than the illness, you know? More s

[sugarcatmom]

Oh otter, I'm sorry to hear about Molly having cancer. I don't have any personal experience dealing with it, but thought you might be interested in some links. There is a wonderful veterinary oncologist (Dr. Alice Villalobos) who coined the concept of Pawspice care. Similar to human hospice, the goal is to make the animal as comfortable as possible in their final days. She also has the best Quality of Life Scale I've seen. Perhaps some of this info will be helpful to you:
http://www.thehealthyplanet.com/oct08_pawspice.htm
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.co...-pet-care.aspx
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.co...-for-pets.aspx

[Adriann27]

I'm so sorry what you're going through!!! I lost my cat to cancer this year.

My prayers are with you.

[krdahmer]

I also have no experience, only with people... but am so sorry to hear that Molly is not well. Me and the gang send our and .

[kandy]

I am so sorry Otter!

My mom's rotti developed bone cancer when she was 10, so while I don't have any experience with this particular type of cancer, I know what it's like to know that your time with them has been cut short. My mom also opted for no treatments other than pain management.

We simply made her as comfortable as possible, spoiled her rotten (which she already was, so that was no change for her..lol) and made the most of the time we had left. It was less than 4 months from diagnosis to her time to cross the bridge. And of course my mom and I held her tight while she made that journey.

Hugs to you and Molly.

[t.pettet]

Although my Annie who I had to pts Nov. 2007 and Teddy who I had to say goodbye to Nov. 2008 didn't have cancer, once they were diagnosed and I was advised of how much longer they would be with me I basically did everything I knew how to spoil them rotten which included fav. food at every meal, lots of private time (slow, quiet, walks, car rides to MacDonalds) lots of converations directed to how much they were loved and what good babies they had been. They were never scolded due to mainly how well behaved they were anyway but they were both given priority treatment (Annie adored being carried around like a baby and Teddy loved to lie beside me on the couch) until the last good-bye. I am sorry for you and your beautiful Molly and what you're both having to endure. Every pet owner should treasure every second their pets are with them for their time with us is way too short.