I need a friend who understands

[momsloopy]

Thank-you so much everyone. I did not know if anyone would post on what I had written. I know this is a pet forum which I love. I don't get to post a whole lot but I catch up when I can. I was just soo in need of someone to talk too and everyone gives such good advice, I thought I would take the chance. Am I ever glad I did

I really was at a low point today and everyone of you that responded have helped pick me up. I work in the pharmacy department of a small hospital and I was luckey to be on my own today becasue after reading all the words of encouragement and advice. The flood gates opened up I still had to go and deliver my medications and it really dosen't look good the person in charge of the drugs with bloodshot eye, If you know what I mean

So I am giving each and everyone of you a great big I had a talk with him tonight and I got him to agree that things need to change. I hope it means a change

[kiara]

You are not wasting out time. I know that it is tough on parents dealing with this disease. Knowledge is power and you could go to your local library and they have medical books there for you to look at. I know only one young person with ADHD and his doctor has put him on Ritalin. I know that this drug is prescribed very freely for this disease to young people. (Here's your prescription and go away, type attitude) And really who knows of the long term side effects for taking this drug? Perhaps going to another Dr. for another opinion would help and also have tests done for food allergies. If your son is eating a lot of processed food, it may be bad for his behavior since there are chemicals and preservatives in this type of foods. If you lived in Montreal I have agreat Dr. to recommend.

[Frenchy]

ahhh Sandman , you're too sweet

[momsloopy]

I live in Ontario in a small town and we r trying right now to get some help and see what we can do. I have never been convinced fully on the ADHd , I do however think they are right about the learning disability.

Unfortunatly living in a small town the resourses are not always available to us and we have to go out of town. Waiting for referalls and of course just the waiting lists seem like they take forever.

I spoke to the person from the childrens agency we are dealing with and she has talked to his teacher about how things are going. The teacher told her that if the Homework was a big deal then not to worry about it at all. I asked her what does that teach him? Other than him learning that if he argues and complains he can get out of his responsibilities I asked her what will happen in highschool in 2 years when there will be lots of homework and she told me the teacher said that he will only ever be able to achevie an applied learning level and in that level there is not much homework
I am so angry at the teacher right now. She has basically written him off and will not even try to help him at all. I know he need s to start helping himself too but to come out right and say he will never amount to much me off!


I have taken everyone's advice and encoragements to renew my fight. Sandman has given me hope and has shown me I can get my son back.


I know I have said it before but I feel I can't say it enough I don't think I can even begin to express how grateful I am

[Schwinn]

Hopefully you're still reading this. I don't get on as much as I'd like, but being an adult with ADD, I wanted to offer my perspective.

There are two issues here...one is the learning disability, and the other is lying. I say this because I've seen so many parents feel helpless because they figure that everything is because of the ADD. Yes and no. He may not be doing his homework because it isn't stimulating enough. I know myself, if I'm not interested, I can find anything more exciting to look at or distract me (which is why Mrs. Schwinn refers to it as my "something shiny disease".) I also know that I couldn't memorize things, I had to learn them. I was diagnosed when I was a child, and treatment was "abandoned" for various reasons (one being a couple of useless teachers and the way I felt). I was "re-diagnosed" in university. The clincher for me was when I was talking to a prof, and I asked if I had to use his formula, and he said no, but it was the easiest way. I said not for me, I figure it out this way. "What, you have a learning disability or something?" He stopped smirking when I said, "So they tell me". What I learned is, it isn't a deficiency in thinking, it's a different way of thinking. The key is to learn how...to learn. It's like getting directions. I can't remember "turn left, turn right, go straight...left, left and another right". I'll usually wind up "turn left, then I think it was...hey, is that a grey squirrel crawling under that...woa! Nice vette! Wait...was I supposed to turn somewhere??" I have to know the land marks, what's in between A and B. Then, when it's time to get there, I might take a different route, but I'll get there. And chances are, I'll remember it longer than someone who memorized it.

It can be tough, though. I barely passed high school (going all the way to grade 14). For me, I didn't accept it until second year of university, after begging to be let back in. It's a long story, but it ends with me getting a university degree, so it is possible. And if I'm not good enough company, how about Albert Einstein? (Though I've been more compared to Robin Williams, another ADD'er, than him).

In my house, even though it was recognized I had this "issue", I still had to follow the rules. I was grounded for disobeying, and lying was not accepted. Didn't matter the reason, ADD didn't become an excuse. My advice? If you set down a rule, and he disobeys, then there needs to be consequences...and sometimes with the ADD child, it's even more important. The key is to be understanding, fair, but also firm. I've written several papers on it, and lots of studying, and one thing I found was that people don't really grow out of it, they just figure out how to work with it. Mrs. Schwinn often says it's one of the things she most enjoys about me. Successful ADD'ers often say that it's the one thing that makes them most unique, and can be used to their advantage. But to get to that point, he has to learn how to live among the "normals". And the only way to do that, is to learn that there are rules. I missed out on a few pizza parties, trips, big games etc growing up...and I learned that, whatever my issue was, when I get out in the real world, my boss doesn't care why I show up late to the meeting, or didn't get my project done. I'm glad I suffered the consequences at home, before I was on my own.

I'd also suggest finding something that does interest him. My mom talks about how I could take hours to do an assignment that should have taken 10 minutes (and Mrs. Schwinn talks about home projects that have taken months instead of a couple of weekends!), but if you set me down in front of a car model, I'd sit there until it was completely built in a few hours. Or how I'd bounce from one activity to another around the house, but if I got on my bike, I'd ride for hours and hours. Having something like this to focus on helped calm me down, keep me focused. Gave me something to burn off my excess energy.

As for the diagnosis, what I found, at least in Ontario, it was difficult to be diagnosed. Most professionals were skeptical. It was the academic councillor who said, when I told him I was told I had it, who said, "I doubt it, but I'll send you to the school councillor", who said, "I doubt it, but I'll send you to be evaluated by a psychiatrist who specializes in ADD", who said, "I doubt it, but I'll run these tests." Then, after the tests, everyone down the line went, "Hey, you've really got it." Ironically, I said, "I doubt it, I just want back into school".

The best advice I can give on the diagnosis is to talk to someone who specializes in it. Feel free to PM me, and I can check some of my resources to see if I can find a local person for you. The tests should include a questionnaire (based on the DVM-IV) as well as a cat scan, amongst other things. The biggest problem with ADD is everyone is "a little ADD" at some time or another. ADD is all the time, over most of your life. You need to be an advocate for your son, and he needs to learn how to be one himself. I've run into so many people who say, "Oh, I've got that. No, I've never been actually diagnosed, but I know I have it." and then use that as an excuse. Or the other side, "There's really no such thing, you're just lazy". Well, I can tell you, there is. I remember I had a "friend" who claimed it didn't exist, and I was just lazy. I told him, "If that were true, if the meds just gave me an unfair advantage, I'd stop now. I wish I knew how they'd affect someone who didn't have it." Unfortunatly, this while I was in university, and after a number of beers. My other friend piped up, "I'll try it". Fast forward to 5 am, and finding my friend just wired on the balcony outside my window where I was sleeping. "Dude..." "WHAT!?!!" "What are you doing?" "NOTHING!! JUST LOOKING!!" He tells me he finally slept two days later...I've never done illicit drugs, but I've read and heard enough to know, he looked like he was coked out. I've since learned that a lot of people with ADD self medicate with drugs, coke being the big one. That was Robin Williams drug of choice, and he often said that it calmed him down. And that's exactly what the medication did for me, it made me more calm, unlike my wired and sleep deprived buddy...

I actually haven't been taking medication for several years now, and I'm struggling in a lot of aspects of my job. One of the main reasons, I REALLY don't like what I do, and suddenly I'm back in high school, struggling to stay focused. But that's a whole other story...

Don't know if any of this helped, I've been interupted by the 3 yr old with nightmares a couple of times, so I apologize if it seems a little disjointed. I don't really talk about ADD, but I remember struggling with the diagnosis for years, and promised I'd always speak out if someone had an issue. If you want an adult's view on it, feel free to ask, or even PM me.

(By the way, did I mention that a lot of ADD'ers tend to talk [type] a lot? )

[kiara]

Robin Williams self-medicating with cocaine, since it made him calmer, are you kidding me? Another reason these "stars" give us bad examples as to HOW NOT TO LIVE OUR LIVES. These people have a lot of money, fame and everything but they lack brains as to their health. They have access to the best Dr's. and treatments. Unfortunately ADHD can make you prone to commiting crimes and it has been very well documented. Like any disease you have to get to know all the facts, get treatments and ask other people with the same ailment as to what they are doing. What drugs are they taking and what dosage. Getting a second opinion from another dr. can be reassuring. You can take all the tests with you or have them faxed. As far as I know this is a disease for life and you have to learn how to deal with it, the best way you can. The best of luck for your family.

[momsloopy]

That is another thing I worry about so much is drugs and alcohol. I really hope he dosen't turn to them to help him hide his feelings.

I wish I had a better update then I do. He continues to be very confrontational and I am trying to not yell and stay calm.

I am being very firm and following through with my consequenses, but he tells me that he won't do anything for me untill I give him his things back.


I haven't given up yet

[luckypenny]

Stick to your guns, momsloopy. Seth is going to have to learn that what's expected of him is non-negotiable. At the moment, Sandman is actually waiting to get his laptop back but still hasn't done what I've asked of him yesterday.

Your post of Jan. 9th...you mention waiting for referrals. At the larger hospitals, all you have to do is ask for an intake worker and refer yourself. More often than not, it's accepted to go about it that way.

And Schwinn, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us.

Originally Posted by Schwinn

What I learned is, it isn't a deficiency in thinking, it's a different way of thinking. The key is to learn how...to learn.

Originally Posted by Schwinn

...and I learned that, whatever my issue was, when I get out in the real world, my boss doesn't care why I show up late to the meeting, or didn't get my project done. I'm glad I suffered the consequences at home, before I was on my own.

Excellent points. As parents, we sometimes don't help the situation by making excuses for our children. I was very guilty of that until I learned that I was actually making things worse .

[Schwinn]

Originally Posted by kiara

Robin Williams self-medicating with cocaine, since it made him calmer, are you kidding me? Another reason these "stars" give us bad examples as to HOW NOT TO LIVE OUR LIVES. These people have a lot of money, fame and everything but they lack brains as to their health. They have access to the best Dr's. and treatments.

He wasn't self-medicating as in "I have ADD, so I'll take this for it". Self-medicating is what is referred to when people become drug or alcohol addicts because it makes them feel better when they do, perhaps because of depression or some other issue. In his case, he tried it with his friend John Belushi, and liked how he felt. He also quit the day Belushi died and never did it again. The point was that for many with ADD, cocaine has the opposite effect. While non-ADD addicts take it for the rush, most with ADD find it makes them more calm, helps alleviate that "always on" feeling.

Originally Posted by kiara

Unfortunately ADHD can make you prone to commiting crimes and it has been very well documented.

Umm...no. Either the documents are mis-interpreted, or crap. ADD (ADHD and ADD are considered one in the same) has no bearing on moral compass. While there is a factor with impulsivity, causing people to do things without thinking (might explain some of my mountain bike scars), it will not make someone break the law unless they are inclined to. ADD does not blur your vision of right and wrong, or destroy a person's conscience. Again, you have to be inclined for that behaviour to act impulsivly. Being a mountain biker, I've had my share of "OOOH! I should ride down that!" moments, but knowing that, for example, theft is wrong, I've never walked by a bicycle and said, "OOOH! I like that, I should take it!". I'm sure my employers at the bank where I'm an account manager would have issue, and, being someone who's been through the process, I know for a fact that the high-ratio of cops with ADD would not be on the force if that were true. If you can't get on the force because you're mother's brother's best friend happens to be a Hell's Angel who shows up at family barbecues (this has happened), then they would certainly disqualify you if you "were prone to committing crimes". I have seen this hypothesis in my research, both for me personally, and in several papers I wrote while majoring in Sociology, and it's all based on faulty logic, usually on the same lines as "There are a high incidence of African American's in jail, ergo, African Americans are prone to commit criminal behaviour".

Originally Posted by momsloopy

That is another thing I worry about so much is drugs and alcohol. I really hope he dosen't turn to them to help him hide his feelings.

Just keep in mind that he has two things going against him in this regard, the other being, he's about to be a teenager. Teenagers experiment. The chances of it happening without ADD are high (no pun intended). The key, though, is getting him to learn how to cope with his feelings before he goes that route. The best thing you can do there is keep the lines of communication open on your side, and not allow him to use ADD as an excuse.

Originally Posted by momsloopy

I wish I had a better update then I do. He continues to be very confrontational and I am trying to not yell and stay calm.

Best thing you can do, stay calm...for your sanity and his. Just remember, again, some of this is "life with a teenager". Don't treat him with kid gloves everytime because he has this "thing". Again, he has to learn now, before he gets in the real world. There are a lot of extremely successful people with ADD, and most of them got there because they had to learn how to operate by the same rules as everyone else. You might be more understanding as to why he's lashing out, possibly more forgiving, but he still needs consequences like everyone else. Understanding behaviour isn't the same as excusing it.

Originally Posted by momsloopy

I am being very firm and following through with my consequenses, but he tells me that he won't do anything for me untill I give him his things back.

Best thing you can do. Now it's a test of wills. He won't do anything for you? That's fine. You were probably doing those same things yourself before he came around, you can do them again. Or if they can wait, they wait. How long can he go without his things? At some point, he's going to try and talk to you about it, even if it's just to get his stuff back. And if that means it doesn't happen until you've got a closet of his stuff, and he's in a room with a mattress and a blanket, so be it. In the end, you'll both be better for it.

Originally Posted by momsloopy

I haven't given up yet

Hang in there, it'll get better. I know it's trying (both my mom and Mrs. Schwinn have told me so), but it will work out if you stick to your guns, and make sure he knows you love him.

[badger]

Brilliant, Schwinn.
But very respectfully, do you really think being left with a mattress and blanket has any value?

[aslan]

momsloopy, i had a 12yr old brother inlaw also miss diagnosed with adhd and watched how the medication turned him into a complete freak. I think the two teenagers gave some excellent input.LP the fact Sandman was willing to share in here is testimony of what a good mom you are, and having spent time with him online, i can vouche for what a good and polite young man he has become. Babymomma also has some good insight.

There is a huge psychiatric hospital here in toronto i can get you the info for if you'd like and see what info they can give you.

One of my first thoughts was possible drug use, as a recovering drug addict some of the symptoms sound the same. If it's truly a concern i can give you some information on what to look for depending on what drug.

Oh and Schwinn thank you for your excellent post on the info about yourself, and your response to the Robin Williams comment. I worked for the man for 6mths and he is an excellent human being and didn't deserve the comments made about him.

[Dog Dancer]

Momsloopy, I'm sorry I haven't logged into this thread before, and have had a good long read today. I have nothing at all to offer you, as I was among the blessed with my teenaged boy and never had any issues (beyond the normal teen stuff). But I wanted to say bless you for not giving up on your son. Sandman sounds like such a great boy and will probably be able to give you lots of advice. Maybe Seth would like to talk to Sandman directly by pm if they're both open to it. And Babymomma can also offer more advice if you pm her, she has the youth perspective still. So many people have taken the time to write you great helpful responses I won't list them, just thank them for caring so much.

Of course you care for Seth, but many would give up. I don't blame you for being mad at his teacher, I would be too! In fact I'd go above her head. Again, bless you for caring so much and being so strong. You are so not wasting anybodies time here. I really wish you strength and luck in resolving this to help your son.

[allymack]

Originally Posted by Dog Dancer

Maybe Seth would like to talk to Sandman directly by pm if they're both open to it. And Babymomma can also offer more advice if you pm her, she has the youth perspective still.

thats a good idea DD, i have a niece who went through these kind of things too, not too long ago, if you think talking to someone his own age would help i could ask her if she could get an account here and they could pm, just a thought..

[momsloopy]

I just want to let everyone know that I am still reading this post and that every bit of advice and encourgement I have taken in.

If I have not responded back to you personally. Please do not take it as a slight. I just do not always have the time to come back to the forum everyday.

I do want you all to know that when I am having a very frustrating night with my Seth , that I come back to this post and it helps me to stay calm and focuss on the big picture and that is to help my son and my family.

I love my son and my family and I want us to be happy agian.


Thank-you