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Old May 9th, 2007, 05:39 PM
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Limp/any ideas?

Two years ago Streets had a limp in his front leg that would come and go. After about 2 or 3 weeks of this, it finally resulted in him waking up one day in obvious pain and unable to really walk.

At that time we had a whole bunch of x-rays of his front legs, shoulders, neck, etc. taken and all three vets wholooked at them couldn't see a thing. He was given anti-inflammatory, put on restricted excercise for about a month and the problem resolved and never came back.

The last couple of days Streets has again had a slight limp. Like the last time it's not to the degree of holding his leg up or anything, it's just a almost like every few minutes his step gets uneven for a stride or two. It almost looks like if your knee locks for a second when you're walking.

The other similarities to last time, though these may have absolutely nothing to do with it, are a recent change in food, a recent bad bout of colitis and the time of year.

In the time between these two limping episodes, he was on joint support supplements, but was taken off about 2 months ago due to his intestinal issues and trying to figure out a diet that worked, meaning I took him off everything trying to pinpoint the issue.

What I 'm wondering is if a) any of this sounds at all familiar to anyone and b) if it makes sense to go have him x-rayed all over again, or if I should give it a bit of time, restrict excercise and maybe start him on a joint supplement again.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 06:59 PM
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Has he been tested for lyme disease? Intermittent lameness is a symptom.

Is there any way he could go back on the joint supps, if they seemed to help him?
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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:13 PM
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Lyme was ruled out last time, apparently it's pretty rare around here anyways. I'm thinking I should try putting him back on the supplements incase they helped, it just seems odd that, in the words of the vet, all his joints looked "perfect" on the xrays last time.

ETA: This has been happening for 3 days now, and on all 3 days he's totally fine for our morning walk, the evening walk he'll limp, then the late night/before bed walk he seems fine again. It's totally weird.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:39 PM
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If the joints and bone structure look okay on xray, and lyme is ruled out, it could be some sort of soft tissue thing-ligaments, tendons, muscles....it does seem weird that he only limps on one of the walks, is that walk longer than the morning/nighttime ones?

Maybe check for spinal problems if everything else is ruled out. If he has some sort of misalignment, could make his shoulder sore. Can you tell if the pain is in his shoulder, leg, pastern, paw?

Are there any pet physical therapy places near you? They have more experience with limping problems than some vets. They might be able to figure it out and recommend something -massage, stretches, water therapy, acupuncture...

What exactly is in the joint supps? If it helps and you know what the ingredients do specifically...although I think most joint supps have anti-inflammatory properties and that would help a lot of problems, arthritis or injury.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
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Where exactly is the limp (shoulder, neck, elbow, etc)? It seems as though exercise seems to be causing it.

My dog (16 month old golden) has a slight limp in his front left shoulder (although we later found out the problem was in his neck, at his C3/4), and what I found helped me much more than vets, was a chiropractor who works with dogs and horses and treats sports injuries even injurues caused from car accidents. The ONLY thing that seemed to help my dog, is certain stretches and exercises that I do daily, that help with the soft tissue damage and rebuilding the muscle.

Is it possible that your dog may have a similar (old) injury that has just been triggered? My dog's limp seemed to have no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Somedays he would wake up with a limp, and after some running around the limp would be completely gone. Other days, running around seemed to be what caused it. Resting him didnt' help at ALL, and neither did joint suppliments (but I keep him on a maintanence dosage anyway).

Another posibility could be along his spine. Sometimes when we humans have something like a pinched nerve, or if a vertabrae is out of line, we can develop all sorts of problems, weakness in limbs included.

Since you've had x-rays and whatnot, have you seen a chiropractor? Just a suggestion.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:46 PM
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The morning walk and evening walk are basically the same, so the only thing I can think of is that he's fine when he wakes up and the morning walk causes muscle sorness or something that shows up in the eveing.

The thing that strikes me as bizarre is that the same thing would show up two years later without any obvious cause, unless it is somehow linked to the things I mentionned in my first post.

I don't know of any physical therapy places around here, but I'll check around.

When we had xrays taken 2 years ago, they also looked at his spine and again saw nothing.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit View Post
Where exactly is the limp (shoulder, neck, elbow, etc)? It seems as though exercise seems to be causing it.
This is the other weird thing. I can't figure out exactly where the problem is, my normal vet never figured it out, the other two vets I saw spent about an hour trying to pinpoint the issue, with no luck. I move his legs around, put pressure/feel around on his neck, shoulder, elbow, foot and there is no obvious sign of where the issue is (though he is a rather stoic dog).

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Originally Posted by Spirit View Post
Since you've had x-rays and whatnot, have you seen a chiropractor? Just a suggestion.
This is going to sound really, really silly, but I have a total fear of chiropractors. I feel like if they do one thing wrong they'll cause some insane amount of damage that can't be undone. That said, please tell me I'm being crazy, because I'm sure I am....

Last edited by pitgrrl; May 9th, 2007 at 07:56 PM.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 08:06 PM
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Risk of permanent damage from a chiropractic adjustment is very small.
Quote:
Is chiropractic treatment safe?
Chiropractic is widely recognized as one of the safest drug-free, non-invasive therapies available for the treatment of neuromusculoskeletal complaints. Although chiropractic has an excellent safety record, no health treatment is completely free of potential adverse effects.

The risks associated with chiropractic, however, are very small. Many patients feel immediate relief following chiropractic treatment, but some may experience mild soreness or aching, just as they do after some forms of exercise. Current literature shows that minor discomfort or soreness following spinal manipulation typically fades within 24 hours.
......
Neck manipulation is a remarkably safe procedure. While some reports have associated upper high-velocity neck manipulation with a certain kind of stroke, or vertebral artery dissection, there is not yet a clear understanding of the connection. The occurrence appears to be very rare—1 in 5.85 million manipulations— based on the clinical reports and scientific studies to date.
That's from the American Chiropractic Association.

Is the dog a pit bull? (Just guessing, based on your name!) They are impossible when you have to elicit a pain response to pinpoint a problem. They just stand there and don't react.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 08:10 PM
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A friend's dog limped when she ate Eukanuba. She got xrays and MRIs and everything on her shoulder and it was the food. It's definitely a possibility.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitgrrl View Post
This is the other weird thing. I can't figure out exactly where the problem is, my normal vet never figured it out, the other two vets I saw spent about an hour trying to pinpoint the issue, with no luck. I move his legs around, put pressure/feel around on his neck, shoulder, elbow, foot and there is no obvious sign of where the issue is (though he is a rather stoic dog).
I did the same thing, and it even took the doctor about 10 minutes to pinpoint exactly where the sore spot was, but when she found it, BOY did he let her know.

In my case, she didn't actually adjust anything, but she did suggest the stretching exercises, and his flexibility has improved something drastic. At our last visit, she told me that his range of motion far exceeded even your average canine athelete. He's come a LONG way since I first brought him there.

His injury stemmed from birth (stuck in the birth canal and was pulled out), and was triggered by a jump, and landing on the weaker leg when he was 5 months old. As he grew, he compensated by shifting his weight onto his stronger leg, and so now if he lands the wrong way on the weak one (his left leg), the limp returns. Thankfully, to the proper combination of rest, exercise, and "doggy yoga" (stretching lol), his limp is near gone. And all it cost me was $75 CAD.

SableCollie is right though, if your dog is a pitbull. Locating an injury yourself can be more painful for you.

If you're really nervous about chiropractic care, see if you can find "Chiropractic care for the pet lovers soul" (I think it's called). There's a short short in there about a dog who had horrific seizures and couldn't walk.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 08:54 PM
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Just a thought... There are other tick-borne diseases that can cause intermittent limps. Has Streets been checked for anaplasmosis, ehrlichiosis or babiesiosis (not sure of the spelling on that last one)?
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Old May 9th, 2007, 08:57 PM
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It's totally the pit bull curse of ignoring pain. The vet loves my dogs when she's sticking needles in them and all they do is kiss her, but trying to figure out what's wrong is near impossible.

Prin, I did suspect food the last time this happened, as it came so soon after a change in food, but he stayed on the same diet and was fine until recently when we switched to a grain free food.

I suppose it's possible that it's an old injury that has been triggered by something, the day before this started was pretty active with extra walks and lots of jumping an running around, but these are pretty toughly built dogs and we weren't climbing a mountain or anything extreme.

Perhaps I'll go try and find a chiro in Montreal, unless nayone has any suggestions.
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Old May 9th, 2007, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Just a thought... There are other tick-borne diseases that can cause intermittent limps. Has Streets been checked for anaplasmosis, ehrlichiosis or babiesiosis (not sure of the spelling on that last one)?
The thing is, I live in downtown Montreal. Between being surrounded in concrete and having dog's with grass allergies, we spend 99% of our time away from any sort of actual nature
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Old May 9th, 2007, 09:01 PM
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The thing is, I live in downtown Montreal. Between being surrounded in concrete and having dog's with grass allergies, we spend 99% of our time away from any sort of actual nature
That's a blessing! sort of, I guess!

I guess I'm just tick paranoid these days since we're in the middle of the Icky Tick season.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:44 AM
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So I took Streets on a very short walk this morning, but if he walks faster than a very slow pace, his gait gets wierd. I'm hesitant to even call it a limp, it's more like a slight skip in his step or something. I still can't tell exactly where the problem is, though when I bend one of his elbows there seems to a tiny click or pop.

Arrrgh, I also can't find a vet chiro in Montreal, only acupunture/pressure and I really, really don't want the vet to put him on anti-inflammartories again since every single thing that ever gets put into this dog causes total GI chaos, which I just got back into shape.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by pitgrrl View Post
So I took Streets on a very short walk this morning, but if he walks faster than a very slow pace, his gait gets wierd. I'm hesitant to even call it a limp, it's more like a slight skip in his step or something. I still can't tell exactly where the problem is, though when I bend one of his elbows there seems to a tiny click or pop.
By any chance do you know someone who has a show dog or does agility? The reason I ask is because handlers can often predict something is wrong by the way the dog stands or walks ala 'show ring strut' (gait). We've seen a few dogs who 'skip' or kick their legs out when the pace speeds up, and although they failed their hip exams, none of them were dysplastic. If you know what you're looking at, it can be pretty easy to guess what's wrong (although nothing can tell you without x-rays).

If you can find a handler, it won't give you an answer to your problem, but it might put your mind at ease. The elbow pop concerns me a little though. Is there a history of dysplasia in the line?
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Old May 10th, 2007, 11:02 AM
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The line is "tied to a tree on a street corner as puppies", so I don't know anything about their breeding besides the fact that it was likely some backyard pit bull experiment that got old when the dogs hit adolesance.

I wish I knew someone involved in agility or had a lot of experience to draw from, I suspect I might get some better insights if I did, but I wouldn't even know where to find such a person.

If there was elbow dysplacia though, would that not have shown up on xrays last time? He was already 3 years old when they were taken, would something like that not be apparent to atleast one of three vets who took at look at the xrays?

Clearly I should probably just make him take it easy for a couple of days before I panic and go running off to the vet, but I would just absolutely hate to see it get to the point where he's in intense pain again.
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Old May 10th, 2007, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pitgrrl View Post
If there was elbow dysplacia though, would that not have shown up on xrays last time? He was already 3 years old when they were taken, would something like that not be apparent to atleast one of three vets who took at look at the xrays?
It's likely that it would, but it really depends on who took the x-rays (positioning is crucial), and how severe the problem is. It's also been known (though less commone) for symptoms to not show up until the dog is 7 or 8. I knew a police dog whos x-rays showed up with no problems, but began to show signs at age 9, and x-rays confirmed it wasn't arthitis.

Maybe keeping a log might help... write down what his activity level was before, and after activities, what it was like in the morning, late at night... etc. And definitely keep looking for some sort of pro help.

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Old May 12th, 2007, 07:53 PM
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I've been restricting Streets' walks the last few day, taking only short, slow outingings and generally making the dogs hate my guts

He hasn't actually limped in the last couple of days, though he seems inclined to walk slower than normal after a bit. Trying to keep him from leaping off furniture or jumping around with his toys is another story all together......

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestion of how long I keep this up though. Is a few days enough or should I keep him on restricted excersise for a week? More? Streets isn't necessarily going to show me if anything is wrong, so I can't really go by what he wants to do.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 10:51 AM
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If the limp is gone, I would try to see if I can pinpoint what causes it to come back. If you can find a trigger, maybe it would give you some answers as to what could be wrong internally.

The funny thing about Ben's limp is that nothing seemed to trigger it when he was younger (and exercise sometimes seemed to make it better). But now that it's come and gone so many times, I can tell that it only bothers him when he gets the zoomies in small spaces. Turning corners (counter clockwise) at high speeds can trigger it. It's all about the way he uses that muscle/joint/tendons in that left shoulder (the angle, pressure, etc).
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