sudden agressiveness -- he scared me

[meb999]

ok, so alot of people know that Buster (3 year old Boxer) has dog agression issues. He's never bitten a dog, but has started his fair share of fights. I just avoid contact with other dogs.

But tonight was the first time he's ever shown agression towards a human. I'm trembling, I can't stop shaking, he scared me so bad....

Every now and then, when it's this cold out or when there's a snow storm I let Buster off leash at the park because there aren'T any other dogs around and it gives him a chance to really run around and burn some energy.

People walk by and it's never even made him blink.

So tonight we'Re playing in the park (while I'm keeping an eye out to make sure there aren't any dogs), and as usual people are walking by and Buster is paying no mind.

Until some guy comes running towards us. Buster freaks out and runs toward him barking. He's barked at people before but usually the second I say : 'it's ok' he stops and goes into play-mode. Tonight he was snarling and barking at the guy even after I said ok. So I'm holding him by the collar about to put his leash on when the guy reachs us and says :your dog is handsome' and reaches down to pet him. Buster jumped, he didn'T bite, but I honestly think he was going to.

The guy immediatetly runs off...Buster, wanting to chase him, turns around and bites my hand that was holding his collar (he didn'T bite my hand, but rather pulled off my glove) and started chasing the guy barking. I caught him before he even got close to this guy again.

Is he becoming agressive towards humans? I'm terrified....I was 'calm and assertive' but now that we're home I'm a mess....

Was this a one-time thing? Don't worry -- he'll NEVER be off leash again.

[jiorji]

oh my goodnes Meb...sorry you had to go through that :sad: I hope this was a one time thing

[Byrd]

Perhaps he sensed something bad about the man.

I know that there are certain people that Willow doesn't like, and my Wolf was like that too. There just seems to be a vibe they get from certain people, or perhaps it was just the way the man ran up, maybe he thought the man would hurt you and went into protection mode.

[brandynva]

I would agree. Maybe he just sensed something bad. And then the man reaching for him when he was obviously not happy didn't help I'm sure. If this is not typical behavior I wouldn't stress about it too much. But I can certainly understand your concerns. I'm no expert though!

[jiorji]

Originally Posted by Byrd

Perhaps he sensed something bad about the man.

yeah i would've thought so too...but still it's dangerous that he went off on Meb. who knows what ticked him off?

Meb what was the man's reaction?

[Byrd]

Why would someone try to pet a dog that was barking and snarling at him?

[jiorji]

i don't know...to calm him down?? No idea. I'd stand still.
but some people who have never been around pets all their life just don't know better.

[Byrd]

True. But, man, if a large dog were barking at me, I sure wouldn't go near it, whether I knew anything about dogs, or not.... especially not.

[Prin]

One time thing. The most concern I have is the way he turned back at you... He shouldn't have done that. But the reaction to the man happens sometimes... Boo did it a couple years ago to some random guy in the park too.

[Winston]

You know I honestly think that some dogs have this extra sense of some kind...My dog Winston did this twice to me with a complete strangers in the area?? For some reason he was lunging at these men and the hair on his back was up! If I did not have control I really think he would have went after them for some reason...maybe not to bite but certainly to bark!! and be aggressive... He would not stop until on both occasions the person was completely out of site! He has a wonderful lab spirit but something was just not right! I was terrified myself thinking what could have happened if I lost control of the situation....I am thinking of you! I sort of know how you feel..

I think we all know our animals pretty well....I would think of it being more of a fear bite...or a reaction to fear!

Hope you feel better!

[Smiley14]

Oh Meb, I'm so sorry. I actually know exactly what you're going through. The same thing happened with my previous dog, Max. He was a Border Collie/Springer mix and was sweet as pie to everything and everyone the first two years I had him. I got him as a rescue when he was two years old. Around four years old, he suddenly started trying to attack people. It started one day when a friend of mine rang the doorbell. I was holding onto his collar while talking to her in the doorway and he suddenly lunged up and bit on her glove and yanked it off. He didn't get her fingers by some miracle. He had never shown any aggression prior to this and had even met my friend several times prior, so we were shocked. He seemed to be "normal" again after that and seemed just fine around people again, so while it made me nervous and I kept a closer eye on him, it didn't trigger a full alarm for me. A few months went by, we were at a doggie cafe when a toddler came through the front door. He was loose in the back play area and again, without warning, suddenly lunged. Fortunately, I caught him and nothing happened, but it scared me to death. He was never again off leash after that.

I worked with several animal behavorists and actually drove him around to some in different states even, trying to find help. I was told to put him down by most of them. I found one wonderful woman in Wisconsin who came all the way to MN to make house calls and she worked with us. She diagnosed him with fearful aggression. It was NEVER aimed at me, but he continued to get progressively worse to the point he would want to attack anyone outside my immediate family. We never did get a cause or find out what triggered it suddenly after two perfect years. They did not think it was springer rage, but just from his body language and nervousness, and from analyziing him in several different environments and situations, she and the vets finally diagnosed him with fearful aggression. He was put on zoloft and it helped calm him, but did not stop him from trying to attack people.

He was kept on a gentle leader or muzzle for all walks, could never go off leash ever again, and had to be locked away in a bedroom with the door actually locked whenever anyone came to the house. I ahd a cedar fence installed around the back fence to protect the neighborhood children as well and he was never outside unattended. I was EXTREMELY careful with him and we managed to find a way to live with it. It broke my heart because he was my baby, and was so perfect with me. No one else got to see him like I did. I got Petey after he passed away and I had some scars I didn't even realize I had, they had developed into such deep seeded instinct for me. It took me a good year to adjust to life with a non-aggressive dog again.

Hopefully your situation is entirely different, but it might be worth while to work with an animal behavorist just in case. I just know that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when something like that happens. I do think you are right to be cautious just in case though. And hopefully it was just something with that particular man, as others have suggested. I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this!

[meb999]

Originally Posted by Prin

One time thing. The most concern I have is the way he turned back at you...

He's never ever done that before. EVER. The whole way home he had his little bum all tucked in, and he's been showing me his belly all night (everytime I walk next to him)....

I had this vision of him biting the guy...just running up to him and bitting his neck.....

Meb what was the man's reaction?

It was so weird Jiroji...like out of a movie, the man was completely oblivious to Buster's warning signs (I think he thought Buster wanted to play...) He didn't seem phased by any of it...

[Skryker]

meb! It sounds like a one time thing-maybe Buster just really didn't like this guy or sensed the guy had bad intentions towards you. If Buster just pulled your glove off, maybe he wasn't even trying to bite you at all.

[jiorji]

Originally Posted by meb999

The whole way home he had his little bum all tucked in, and he's been showing me his belly all night (everytime I walk next to him)....

awwww that makes me sad :sad: he knows he was wrong

[Skryker]

Originally Posted by meb999

He's never ever done that before. EVER. The whole way home he had his little bum all tucked in, and he's been showing me his belly all night (everytime I walk next to him)....

I had this vision of him biting the guy...just running up to him and bitting his neck.....



It was so weird Jiroji...like out of a movie, the man was completely oblivious to Buster's warning signs (I think he thought Buster wanted to play...) He didn't seem phased by any of it...

Years ago, I had a similiar thing happen when I was walking 2 Dobes. This guy came up and tried to pet them, even though they were both growling and showing teeth, hackles up. It was strange, like the guy had no clue the dogs were in full-on protective mode. Freaked me out, because I'd never seen either dog do that with anyone before. I'm convinced the guy was a total creep and the dogs picked up on it.

[technodoll]

yeah i tend to agree with the others on this one... buster probably sensed something about this person, his "smell" or "aura" wasn't right... he was just doing his job. BUT the snapping around to make you let go of him... that's not right. no matter the situation, the alpha is *always* in control and is the boss, a dog who knows that wouldn't even try to challenge that. some dogs do get so intense though, they lose that sense of "right vs wrong" and that, IMO, is a sign that Boot Camp may be in order...

i wouldn't be so drastic as to "never let him off leash again", that is akin to jail-time specially for an active physical breed like boxers. they need to run, they need to let loose once in a while. don't let one situation ruin what you have now... just focus on some new training, reinforce good behaviors and your alpha status, etc. be safe and choose times like tonight to let him run loose and practice recall to death for those "in case" situations....

but yeah. so much easier to dispense advice when it's not happening to you... i suggest a stiff drink for tonight and tomorrow is another day!

[Prin]

I'm glad he's feeling guilty.. Honestly, he probably thought you were in super danger and it was worth it. (Just my optimistic analysis...)

[Byrd]

I agree there, I believe that he truly sensed danger and was protecting, but I agree with TD that re-establishing dominance is probably a good thing right now. Protecting is one thing, making you let him go is another.

My obedience instructor has a nice simple way of doing this.... sit on the floor and tell him 'down'. Have him stay down for 30 minutes. Don't talk to him, don't touch him. If he tries to get up simply put him back down, without saying anything. After the 30 minutes release him, even if he falls asleep wake him up to release him. After the first week, move a bit further away, then further, and further until you are across the room or can even move around with him in a 30 minute down. It really does work.

[meb999]

thanks guys...I keep reading other threads, but I can't even post in any of them. I'm surprisingly shaken up. I had such a BAD feeling...I've never not trusted him before with humans....

He's being so submissive tonight. But he's going on a strict NILIF for awhile. And I think a call to trainer will be made tomorow (now I just have to find one I like.... )

You guys are really helping calm my nerves though...thanks

[Smiley14]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all negative, I would just caution you to be careful, just in case. I truly, truly hope he just sensed something awful in that man and was in protective mode. And nine times out of ten, that is exactly as it is. But just speaking as someone who was that one time percentage, Max would also go from being happy-go-lucky, to attack mode, to "guilty" mode where he would whine and tuck in his tail and show me his belly, all in a matter of a few quick minutes. It was such a fast and weird range of emotions without any warning whatsoever. It was like he knew he was wrong, but couldn't seem to help himself.

But anyway, I'm sorry again, I don't mean to be negative. I just think it's better to be safe than sorry. It's just the intensity you describe, where in that split second moment he doesn't even seem to recognize you or your authority and turns back on your glove for a quick second before suddenly being "normal" again, sounds painfully familiar. Perhaps as TD suggested and some boot camp type training to reinforce what he already knows? But anyway, you know your baby best, so whatever you do, it will be the right thing!

[Prin]

Here meb: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15712

[meb999]

Originally Posted by Smiley14

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be all negative, I would just caution you to be careful, just in case. I truly, truly hope he just sensed something awful in that man and was in protective mode. And nine times out of ten, that is exactly as it is. But just speaking as someone who was that one time percentage, Max would also go from being happy-go-lucky, to attack mode, to "guilty" mode where he would whine and tuck in his tail and show me his belly, all in a matter of a few quick minutes. It was such a fast and weird range of emotions without any warning whatsoever. It was like he knew he was wrong, but couldn't seem to help himself.

But anyway, I'm sorry again, I don't mean to be negative. I just think it's better to be safe than sorry. It's just the intensity you describe, where in that split second moment he doesn't even seem to recognize you or your authority and turns back on your glove for a quick second before suddenly being "normal" again, sounds painfully familiar. Perhaps as TD suggested and some boot camp type training to reinforce what he already knows? But anyway, you know your baby best, so whatever you do, it will be the right thing!

please don't be sorry....I'm glad you posted your story, and that's the reason I'd like to find a trainer - - the sooner the better....I want to nip this in the bud.

[jiorji]

i think not letting him off leash again is the right thing to do.
Not to sound harsh, but Meb you're lucky that man didn't flip out. Other dog haters would've and it could've ended in more trouble, poor Buster :sad:

[meb999]

Originally Posted by Prin

Here meb: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15712

hey I REMEMBER that thread!

Again, thanks everyone

[meb999]

Originally Posted by jiorji

i think not letting him off leash again is the right thing to do.
Not to sound harsh, but Meb you're lucky that man didn't flip out. Other dog haters would've and it could've ended in more trouble, poor Buster :sad:

For awhile, no more offleash...luckily we have a backyard, so I can play with him and let him run out there....As long as I stay out with him to play, he usually gets a good run out back....
I don't feel like I can trust him, and I'm sure he'll sense that off me and it'll make everything worse.

[technodoll]

Meb, perhaps call Isabelle from www.academichien.com... she's awesome.

[meb999]

thanks techno

[erykah1310]

MEB I can completely understand your fear right now... the "what if...what if" s running throught your head....
Definately call a trainer... and I do believe that he didnt like something about that guy... ( but the obvious question to me is.. how many other people may he react this way too?) I wouldnt ignore what happened by all means, but I really wouldnt focus too much on it either,
I think ( and this is just My Opinion here) Buster shouldnt be trusted like all is fine for a while, but his training backed up, in a sence, to help ensure this doesnt escallate and become something else...

Yes it happens when dogs just "lose it" Meik has done it many of times, my Max did it a few times too. I still left off leash afterwards, but it took a while for me to have faith in them again.

Im starting to think im rambling and prolly not making a whole lot of sence so im just gonna give another and stop now...

[pitgrrl]

Originally Posted by Smiley14

It's just the intensity you describe, where in that split second moment he doesn't even seem to recognize you or your authority and turns back on your glove for a quick second before suddenly being "normal" again, sounds painfully familiar. Perhaps as TD suggested and some boot camp type training to reinforce what he already knows? But anyway, you know your baby best, so whatever you do, it will be the right thing!

I've never personally dealt with this, but doesn't the turning back and biting the glove sound much more like re-direction than an issue of not understanding who the boss is?

As for the whole incident, if it were my dog I would keep a close eye on his behavior and try not to be either overly paranoid or excuse sketchy behavior, but that said, it might really be a one time thing, only time will tell.

[Spirit]

Did you analize the situation? What was the environment like? Was it daytime, nighttime, foggy, a new area, was there construction or something different in the area that would be new to the dog, how did the man approach the dog (was was his body language saying)? I wouldn't blow this off as a "one time only thing", but instead, try to get to the root of why it happened in the first place.

It doesn't take much to throw a dog off, and this could have just been one of those things that triggered your dog to go into protect mode. I wouldn't at all say that he's becoming aggressive towards humans (in general), but something told him to become aggressive towards thisman. And that gave him power, so it's likely to happen again... and next time it will probably happen a lot quicker as your dog likely gained confidence from this experience. Especially if he thinks he was protecting you, or his "space".

What was YOUR body language saying? How did you react to your dog? Did your energy level rise into a panic mode, or did you remain calm and assertive? A lot of how your dog acts (or reacts) will also be a result of your actions (conscious or not), or if your dog is an alpha type... in which case you have bigger problems on your hand.

Sorry, I didn't read this entire thread, but I did skim through it and no clear answer really stood out to me, so I hope my reply helps somewhat.