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  #1  
Old September 10th, 2018, 11:29 PM
Adventure_Me Adventure_Me is offline
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Rabies Vaccine - Vet is Fear Mongering

I am very upset with my cat's vet clinic and need some advice/opinions. My cat suffers from a condition that makes her constantly twitch and is on medication for life. She is aggressive at the vet clinic because she doesn't like to be touched so they have to sedate her to do blood work and then reverse the sedation. On top of all this, they also give her the rabies vaccine. I am very upset that they insist on the vaccine, even going as far as threatening that if I refuse the vaccine, that my cat may be contained and put down! I was in tears after hearing this. They are well aware of the fact that my cat never goes outside and we live in a high-rise apartment with absolutely no chance of any animal rabid or not coming into the apartment. They keep citing the laws and Vicarious Liability.

I have read hundreds of stories from pet owners who have had their animals die after being vaccinated. Why do vets push this vaccine on UNHEALTHY animals? They threaten that they will not refill my cat's prescription if I don't have her in annually for the blood work and rabies vaccine.

When an animal has been vaccinated for rabies every year for the last 5 years, you would think they have enough antibodies built up in their system and would not require to be vaccinated again.

If anyone knows of a vet clinic in Toronto holistic or not that does not push this vaccine on unwell animals that are on life long meds, please pm me. Thank you.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 10:52 AM
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Sorry you're going through this Adventure_me and I'm not from Toronto unfortunately
But - This type of attitude from the vet seems surprising to me given the indoor nature of the cat. Here in Mtl my indoor cats have not required a rabies vaccine.

Hopefully someone here can recommend or suggest another vet. fro T.O....or shine light on this 'mandatory practise'

Can we ask what twitching condition does your cat suffer from?
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  #3  
Old September 11th, 2018, 04:35 PM
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So sorry your going through this. Most vets are reasonable about rabies when it comes to the age of the pet but not really until they are older.

I cant suggest one vet in Toronto but if your willing to drive to Hamilton I would urge you to consult with the Cat Clinic on Concession Street Hamilton. The vet Liz OBrien is a feline specialist who is extremely knowledgeable. She is one of 4 feline specialists in the world. You can google it as well.

In Ontario its the law to vaccinate against rabies regardless of where your cat lives unfortunatly

Best of Luck with your kittie....
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Old September 11th, 2018, 07:25 PM
Adventure_Me Adventure_Me is offline
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Rabies Vaccine

Thank you Marko and Winston for your replies. The vet classified my cat as having environmental allergies. He said the condition she suffers from is a grey area in veterinarian practice and that they don't know what causes it. When I first took her to the clinic regarding her condition, the vet gave me the option to have her referred to a specialist, however, he said it would be expensive and that in the end, my cat would need to be on medication for life to control her spasms.

I wonder if it's a form of Epilepsy that she suffers from but they feel it's a behavioural type of condition. After she had her first shots as a kitten and then 2 months later was spayed, she became aggressive and started acting up. This was not how she was before the spay. I wonder if her system just couldn't handle all the things that she was being injected with at such a young age.

Winston, I don't drive so Hamilton would not be an option unfortunately. If you can please give me the name of someone in Toronto, I would be forever grateful. Thank you both so much for your help.
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Old September 11th, 2018, 11:22 PM
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Just a thought--if you call the Cat Clinic in Hamilton, they might be able to give you the name of a feline-knowledgeable vet in Toronto.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 01:24 PM
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Hi Adventure Me !

It's almost beyond belief that this 'crowd' would dare to threaten confiscation and euthanasia of anyone's cat.

hazelrunpack's suggestion might just work.

If not, The American Association of Feline Practitioners (AAFP) has two cat-only member clinics in Toronto. 'Simple' membership in the AAFP doesn't guarantee quality/competent/consummate Vets....I find that it does make for a good place to start a search, though.

Here they are:

Dr. Melanie Bonder
Downtown Toronto Cat Clinic
739 Bloor Street West
Toronto ON M6G IL6
Phone: (416) 479-0142
Fax: (647) 476-7023
Practice Type: Feline Only
https://www.torontocatclinic.com/


Dr. Julia Hammond
Guildcrest Cat Hospital
2452 Kingston Rd.
Toronto ON M1N 1V3
Phone: (416) 267-4697
Fax: (416) 267-4930
Practice Type: Feline Only
https://guildcrestcathospital.ca/

Hope this may help....let us know how your search works out!
.
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Old September 12th, 2018, 07:21 PM
Adventure_Me Adventure_Me is offline
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Rabies Vaccine

Thank you everyone for all your help - I can't express enough how much it means to me and my sweet girl. I will let you know how things work out.
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  #8  
Old September 13th, 2018, 12:06 AM
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Hi Adventure Me:

Welcome to the forum. Hopefully some of the ideas that we're coming up
with will be of benefit to you.

I have some ideas that might be of interest to you as well. I see
that you have had vaccines every year for the past five years. The
pharmaceutical industry does not make an annual vaccine anymore.
Today's vaccines whether administered once a year or every three years
is a three-year prescription. So it might be worthwhile to check your
local bylaw enforcement people to see if their by laws have been
updated to correspond with the 3 year vaccines. The annual rabies vaccine in a
lot of instances is being used as a moneymaker. It is one way to make
sure that people come into the office for an annual checkup, and the
rabies vaccine injection is an extra bonus.

I think if I were in your shoes I would be looking for a new Vet . As
far as the threat goes, I don't think the Vet is following the
Principles of the Veterinary Medical Ethics of the CVMA, but I
haven't read through them as yet.

Maybe it might be an idea to follow up on Dr. Liz O'Brien in
Hamilton, and see if she does online consultations. If not maybe you
can follow Hazelrunpack's suggestion.

I don't know whether you've got copies of all the medical reports
that the Vet did or not, but I have found in the past that it is a
wise thing to do in case for some reason you have to find another Vet.
It might be wise to see if you can get these reports. It might save you the cost of running further tests, or at least give the new vet an idea what the other Vet had seen. It also relieves the cat of further stress from further bloodwork.

The addresses that Rusty cat has supplied look interesting I think I
would also be giving them a call and find out what the protocol is on
vaccines especially for a cat who appears to be having an immune or
neurological problems.

I hope this gives you some food for thought. Do keep us informed on
how you're making out .

Best of luck.
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Old September 14th, 2018, 09:34 PM
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Question & More Information

Hi Reg,

Thank you so much for your very informative post! I have a few questions….

The Rabies Vaccine in Ontario, is there a difference in the formulation between the 1 year and 3 year vaccine? I would assume that the 3 year one must provide longer protection than the 1 year correct? If not, why would pharmaceuticals companies make a 1 year vaccine if it protects for 3 years? Also, why would veterinarians not suggest the 3 year?

I am certain that if I call my vet clinic, they will tell me that I need to use the 1 year on an annual basis. I believe that they are coming out with a new protocol for the Rabies Vaccine in November, however, I have to take my cat in to the vet at the end of September for her geriatric blood panel and if they make me, the rabies vaccine.

I have been fear mongered at this clinic several times. Once when I asked the vet if I could have my cat’s prescription filled at a Shopper’s Drug Mart close to where I live instead of through their clinic, the vet said I could however, he cautioned me on doing this as he had a dog patient that was given the wrong medication by a drug mart pharmacy and the dog died.

Another time when I had taken my cat in for her first annual blood work the year after she developed her condition, they waited until she was sedated and called me to say they wanted my permission to give her the rabies vaccine but that I had to tell them on the spot because they only had a limited amount of time to inject her. I agreed because I felt pressured and from then on she was given the vaccine.

In addition, she has come out of the clinic with a bump on her nose one time and 2 front claws bleeding another time because they said they had a hard time getting her back into her carrier cage.

If she wasn’t dependent on the Xanax to control her condition, I would not even be taking her in on an annual basis. I am waiting to hear back from another vet clinic that I called 2 days ago who has excellent reviews online. Time is of the essence here so I need to find a good clinic soon and one that will not make me vaccinate my unwell cat.

Thank you for advising on getting her medical records. I only have copies of her annual blood work.
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Old September 15th, 2018, 03:35 PM
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Hello Advemture_Me:

Hopefully I can give you some ideas of what's happening.

Some years ago, the vet we had - who was an integrative vet - when questioned about the use of vaccines, he informed me that they did not make the 1 year vaccine. It wasn't till later that I found out that the 3 year vaccine carries a one year label. In other words, the 3 year vaccine is used under a separate label. And the protocol in regards to administration is different than the 3 year.

In a lot of instances, the one year vaccine is used to entice the people to come back in annually for checkup and vaccine shots. The reason for this is - if it was administered for 3 years, people wouldn't bring their animals for an annual checkup, and that would cause the loss of revenues.

As far as taking a prescription to a pharmacist for filling - if the pharmacist has had training in animal pharmacy, they would know. We have had 2 pharmacists in the one shop that we used to frequent, that were trained - one in large animals and one in small animals.

From what I gather in talking to these pharmacists, the art is to fill the prescription to the letter that the vet had prescribed. With doing human pharmacy, if the druggist is out of one of the particular brand of medication, they usually have a backup to substitute. If the pharmacist does the same thing with a vet's prescription, this could have devastating consequences. As the pharmacist told me, if they run into this problem, they contact the vet who wrote the prescription to find out if there is an alternate, rather than taking it on their own owness.

As far as this type of harrassment, I'm sorry but if it was me that was getting it, I'd be long gone. I had a vet that was in the same boat as you are experiencing.

It sounds too as though your cat's immune system has been compromised and shouldn't be getting annual vaccines. When was your cat diagnosed with the condition she has? and was it any time around the time of vaccinations? I gather your kitty is a spayed female - how close to that procedure was there vaccine medications administered? We had one kitten who was given the full range of vaccines and 48 hours later she was spayed. This set up for a life time of issues with her.

I am including a couple of web sites for you to check out. The rabies challenge web site was given to me by my integrative vet mentioned above - and the 2nd one is a letter put out by the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association in regards to changing the label on the rabies vaccine.


https://www.rabieschallengefund.org/


https://www.canadianveterinarians.ne...-be-phased-out


I think I would be trying to contact the vet in Hamilton and see if it's possible to have an online or telephone consultation? Or could they suggest a vet that is accessible for you in the Toronto area, that you can consult with by phone.

One other thing - every city, town, and township and county in the province, has By-laws regarding vaccines that could differ from one another. It might be wise to get in touch with the powers that be and find out exactly what the By-law is where you live so you know exactly what you can and cannot do and where the vet is coming from with his harassment.

Where we live we just have to deal with the Provincial Department of Health law re vaccination. And that is "they will be vaccinated"......done......there are no other timelines.

Sorry about the ramble on. Best of luck.
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Old September 16th, 2018, 05:49 PM
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Interesting Information Received

Interesting information I received after speaking with a veterinarian from another clinic. It is not mandatory that my cat needs to have blood work done annually from the clinic she has been going to for the past 6 years, in order for me to receive refills of the medication she is on. WOW I had no idea! I wonder if it has to do with the fact that I get them refilled at Shoppers Drug Mart who require a prescription from the clinic and whether it’s the pharmacists at Shoppers Drug Mart that insist on the annual blood work because her medication is deemed as a “controlled substance” (Xanax). So if I go back to getting the prescription filled through her clinic, I don’t need to get the blood work done annually. Can anyone out here verify this?

Also the vet I spoke with confirmed that the Rabies Vaccine whether 1 year or 3 year vaccine is the same. The 1 year still provides protection for 3 years!!! Thank god for Reg for pointing this out or I would have never known. Why my cat’s vet is not suggesting this to me is alarming to say the least, especially when she is being injected with so many different toxins from the sedation, reversal, blood draw and Rabies Vaccine every year when I have already raised concerns.

I understand the importance of preventative pet health and having your pet taken in for a check over, especially when they are on any medication, however, when you are not getting all the information upfront so you can make the right decision for your animal, it’s just not right in my opinion. When my cat reaches 10 or 11 years old, I will take her in more frequently unless of course I notice any further issues in her health.

I also asked about getting an exemption for the Rabies Shot due to her condition and was told by this other vet that it’s very rare they give them. It’s usually only given for animals that are very ill with say cancer - going through chemotherapy etc….and by giving the vaccine could put the animal at risk.

So, I will call my cat’s clinic tomorrow and try to speak with the vet to see where they stand. If they refuse again to give her any further refills for her meds unless she has her annual work done, then I will tell them to send over all her medical records and will go to the other vet I spoke with.

Thank you all again for your help.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 12:00 AM
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Hi again:

Before we go any further, is there any chance of you posting a picture of your kitty cat and what is her name?

Glad to see that you are starting to get some satisfaction from your queries. I think, if I were you, I would be tempted to get hold of the drug store where you have been having the prescription filled, and ask them if blood work is needed in order to fill the prescription. And I would be very surprised if they said "yes". I can understand needing the prescription, but can't understand the need for blood work.

I did some reading on the Veterinary Medical Ethics in regards to your situation, and it leaves me kind of skeptical of the clinic.

They should not have put you in a bind asking for your permission over the phone to do a procedure. This should have been discussed ahead of time, if they knew what they were doing.

Best of luck tomorrow.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 07:30 PM
Adventure_Me Adventure_Me is offline
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Called Shoppers Drug Mart

Hi Reg,

Thank you for taking the time to read up on the ethnics issue. I have included a picture of my cat Binky. She is 8 1/2 years old.

I called Shoppers Drug Mart yesterday and spoke with the pharmacist who confirmed that they do not require blood work in order to fill a prescription.

I also called the Ontario Medical Veterinarian Association today and they informed me that it's up to the vet at the clinic whether they require annual blood work in order to refill prescriptions. It's due to liability issues if something i guess were to happen to my cat if I refused annual blood work.

I called my cat's vet clinic today and requested a copy of her medical records, which they will send me shortly and asked to have the owner of the clinic call me.

Now I just need to prepare myself with questions for the owner. I will speak with them tomorrow.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 08:21 PM
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Binky's adorable I've been keeping up with your thread, I'm in BC so can't offer any suggestions for Clinics in your area. BC doesn't have a rabies epidemic like in the East, in fact the last documented case in a domestic animal was 2007 when a cat was suspected to have been bitten by a bat, that was the first case since 1969. Bats are the only animal in BC that carry rabies approx 0.5% of bats in BC carry Rabies. I'm lucky to have a good relationship with my vets and they are respectful of my wishes not to vaccinate. My clinic also know I still bring my 2 indoor only cats in for an annual check up, they always ask/offer vaccines but never give a hard time when I refuse, nor have they ever refused treatment to my unvaccinated cats.

I do hope you can find a good vet willing to work with you.

Have you had any allergy testing done to find out specifically what environmental allergens she's reactive to?

One of my cats is food allergy reactive to various proteins and when she started coughing this summer one of the vets though she might have environmental triggers as well, turns out it might have been the corn litter, her coughing cleared up but she was still itchy until I switched litters.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 11:41 PM
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Thank you for the picture of Binky...........she's a great looking cat, to be very proud of...........

I can understand where the Veterinary Association is coming from -----that the vets have to protect their backs------but the problem is the vet clinic needs to be more open and explain these types of problems to their clients up front. This way, a well educated decision can be made by the client and possibly a form that the client can sign exempting the clinic if there is a problem. Even when humans go to hospital or clinics, they are required to sign forms giving permission or exemptions for any procedures that are required to be done.

Hopefully you will get a chance to write your questions down before the owner of the vet clinic phones tomorrow.

Best of luck.
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Old September 23rd, 2018, 09:29 AM
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My understanding of the biggest difference between the 1 na 3 year vaccine for any animal is the amount of adjuvant in it and that's a key ingredient for some some pets, especially cats, they react to it. There IS now a 3 year for cats which is deemed safer.

You need a new Vet. My VEt would never say that but I am not near you. You might try the Vet rating website to comment on your own Vet and see what other say about their Vet, might help you find a new one.

https://www.vetratingz.com/searchRes...zip=&radius=10
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Old September 23rd, 2018, 05:59 PM
Adventure_Me Adventure_Me is offline
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Spoke to Vet - Update

I received my cat’s medical records and it is very hard to read without crying. Throughout the report it states: defacating and urinating when trying to restrain for sedation followed by HEAVY sedation used. What my poor girl went through all these years and I had no idea until now.

I spoke with her vet and they would not give me a direct answer when I asked about the 1 year versus 3 year Rabies Vaccine for cats. All I could get out of them was that their clinic is using the 1 year vaccine for cats that needs to be given on an annual basis. However, they mentioned that there is a 3 year one that has been out for a few years but they wanted to wait to see how it performed (my words) before introducing it at their clinic. It will be available soon is all I got.

I just read up about this on the Canadian Veterinarian Medical Association, which states:

CFIA – ONE-YEAR INACTIVATED RABIES VACCINES FOR DOGS AND
CATS TO BE PHASED OUT
January 8, 2018
Canadian importers of rabies vaccines will be phasing out the importation of the “1-year”
labelled inactivated rabies vaccines (i.e. rabies vaccines with a one-year DOI claim and an
annual revaccination label recommendation for dogs and cats).
These vaccines will no longer be offered for sale in Canada after March 31, 2019.
The Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) sent a letter to inform provincial and territorial
Chief Veterinary Officers (CVOS) of this change.
All inactivated rabies vaccines licensed for use in Canada are manufactured in the United
States, and imported into Canada by a few Canadian importers.
Currently, rabies vaccines in Canada carry either a one-year or a three-year duration of
immunity (DOI) claim and revaccination recommendations for dogs and cats.

We also discussed my concerns about the need to have my cat come in annually for blood work in order to have her life long medication filled, which was a huge concern because of the stress she endures with having to be sedated. I requested that she only have to come in every few years (same time she would need her Rabies Vaccine). Vet was open to working something out but they have to contact the College that governs them to inquire about this so that they can document it in their files. Really? You’ve been in practise for how many years and you don’t know that this is not mandatory when you’ve been seeing my cat for over 6 years? Not to mention, I can’t be the first client who has requested this, you should know as a vet what the rules/legislation is. We left it off that the vet will call me this week to work out a plan for what’s best for my cat.
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Old September 24th, 2018, 05:01 PM
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Glad to read that you were successful in getting your paperwork. It is something that is handy to have in case of any disagreements with vets.

I think after reading your report of what Binky went through it's no wonder you're having such difficulties with her. Cats have an extremely good memory and especially for treatment that she was subjected to. It's no wonder they had trouble.

I think if I was in your place I would be looking for an Integrative vet to get a 2nd opinion. I have been fortunate enough to have had 3 of them over the years and have had good success with all of them.

These were vets who had done the conventional route for years and were not satisfied with results. They decided to "step outside the box" and follow alternative medicines due to the fact that the normal was not working to their satisfaction.

As I already mentioned in a previous post, perhaps you should consider Winston's advice and contact the Dr. O'Brien's office in Hamilton and ask if they can recommend a vet near you.

Try to find a vet that you are comfortable with communicating with.

Thanks for keeping us up to date. Let us know how things progress.
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Old September 25th, 2018, 04:27 PM
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Winston Winston is offline
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I didnt realize until recently that my Vets Office (The Cat Clinic)makes house calls.
I know your not near Hamilton but it is something worthwhile knowing.
They do have a secondary location in Ancaster which may or may not be closer to you.
Here is a link to their website:
http://www.thecatclinic.ca


Here is the Ancaster website:
http://www.villagecatclinic.ca
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