Pls look at this and tell me what u think

[Spoiled]

I think the petstores do it because they think that people don't know where else to get pets. This is especialy true with fish. Have you ever seen an add anywhere that says "fish for sale"? I've never seen a thing like it except at a petstore, and there cirtainly aren't fish breeders where I live! If there were, I'd buy from them if they had healthy fish, but you kind of wonder, because if there are fish diseases at the petstores the breeders must have them in their tanks to! It's also horrible that people feed their fish eating fish feeder fish. Why can't they find something else like worms for their fish to eat? I guess its just nature, but still....some of the cutest little fishies get eaten.

On second thought why should big fish eat little fish? Do big dogs eat little dogs? Do big cats eat little cats? Not usualy, and we cirtainly don't give our cats and dogs little cats and dogs for breakfast! There is such a thing as PET FOOD!!!

I notice birds to! I saw one with hardly any feathers left! I guess the poor bird plucked them off because of stress.

[mona_b]

The worse place to buy fish is Wallmart.It is nasty.Dead fish everywhere.And for those who know me,I'm sure you know what came next.YUP,I gave them a piece of my mind.I told the person that this is totaly unexceptable.Kids are coming by to see the fish.And no one takes the dead ones out.This is disgusting.Then I left.Oh,and don't get me started about parents who beat their kids in a mall.Lets just say I speak up.

[melanie]

well spoiled, i guess the shops dont know much about their product, ie putting predatory fish in with dinner (little fish) as with everything within the biosphere, lots of fish have a variety of physical requirements and variety dietary requirements (as im sure you know), but no my dog does not eat other dogs (but who knows what is truly in pet food) but she does eat a range of other animals fish, cows, lamb, poultry ect. It is all the food chain and natural, what is not natural is forcing them into small conditions that do not give the little ones a fighting chance and keeping the poor little buggers in bad conditions and treating them like a product. recent studies ( New Scientist, Nov, 03) have proven that fish feel, yes they have a type nervous system, therefore the fish in the shops are actually suffering physical pain and discomfort, therefore it is not just a matter of selling injured animals ect. but the fish's own physical comfort, and the funny thing is if most people saw a dog in extreme pain they would say something, but we stand by and allow thousands of not so socially 'significant' species die in the most extreme pain and conditions everyday with little thought, strange isnt it.

[Spoiled]

Ewwww I never thought about whats in the dog food! I'm really going to give the petstores a piece of my mind when I go next. I can't stand it. And you say the fish feel? That makes it more horrible. I know they can feel scared, because I used to have a fish that was scared of me coming up to his tank, and I have a very shy snail at the moment. But I wonder what the fish would be "feeling" as a big fish chews them up for his dinner one day? I'm just so mad at the petstores!

[melanie]

the little fish would probably only feel the initial pain of the attack, as the fish would go into shock pretty much immeadiatly after the first attack (but im not a fish so it may be alot more horrific), so it is scientifically proven now that fish feel pain (i will not tell you how they came to this conclusion, it was quite a cruel set of experements, but we would never have known if they wernt done), it just sucks that there are people and business in this society that can happily treat animals this way, it seems though that alot of people only care about the welfare fo those animal we keep as pets, ie fish, dogs, cats, birds ect. and those we see every day, but what about the millions of animals that are slaughtered daily across the globe to provide MEAT products for dinner tables everywhere, the animal we dont see. these animal are treated so terribly, they are treated as meat products and the way they are slaughtered is just disgusting, it is only that a few thousand years ago and more recently in western society, that we chose dogs ect as pets, what if we had chosen cows and pigs as our companions, would it then be the norm to eat dogs and cats instead, think about it, are not all animal equal, so is a pet shop doing any worse than the farmer that supplies dinner???

[chico2]

Actually Melanie,cats and dogs are a regular diet in many countries,mostly Asian.The Chinese(in China)will eat just about anything that moves.Korea,Vietnam not much better..
The latest horror-stories out of China,the cruel killing (electrocution,drowning etc)of 10.000 civetcats,badgers and other animals because they are SUSPECTED to carry the Sars virus is beyond belief.
Blaming the farmer for people craving meat,is hardly fair...cruelty in slaughter-houses,yes it's cruel...the best we as citizens can do,is to press our government to change the 100yr old animal-cruelty law,also stay away from pet-shops.There are pet-food stores that do not sell live animals of any kind.
Even in the States,they punish people more severe than here in Canada,the SPCA in the US has almost police-power.
The one story out of Toronto,where Kensington the cat was tortured to death,made me sick and gave me nightmares,but after hearing the verdict these vermins of humanity got,I lost all faith in our justice-system.Nobody in our courtsystem cared about this poor little cat.

[Luba]

chico

I'm well aware of the Kensington cat situation
They're actually selling tshirts now to raise money to help
stop this type of thing

Know exactly what ur talkin bout

[chico2]

Hi Luba.
Not living in Toronto I have not heard of any T-shirt sale or any other action in the memory of poor Kensington.
Unfortunately if you care about the treatment of animals,be it live-stock,cats or dogs or wild animals,you are labeled a"crazed activist".
I know a man(former column writer in the Star)Barry Kent McKay,a naturalist,wild-life artist etc...he is giving me horrific examples of animal-cruelty across the globe,his latest challenge is to try to stop the slaughter of thousands of un-wanted horses.He has also been involved in trying to stop slaughter-house atrocities,but in our society the mighty $$$$ speaks the loudest.
I have been told I am a bit of a"nut-case"will not go into a store that sell live lobster or trout the thought that the lobsters are just existing to be boiled alive makes me sick,oh well,you be the judge!
I was unaware of what went on in China until maybe 10 yrs ago,when I by accident saw this horrific clip ,where a man laughingly threw a live cat into boiling water to have him skinned easier..and later become lunch.The wild markets in China(and other Asian countries)show stacks of cages with live cats,dogs,civetcats,monkeys and anything else live.Well,I better stop while I'm ahead,because there is not a darned thing we can do about it,Brigitte Bardot is the only one who raised her voice. No country in the world should deal with China until they improve their Human Rights and their eating-habits,but of course,the mighty $$$$ again has most power.

[wAggie]

I don't want to seem to harsh, but who's to dictate which animal is edible and which should be held sacred and kept as part of a family residing in a house?

each culture is different. we do not have to agree with it, and they will continue to exist.

I doubt most of you are strict vegetarians as well...

so put that sock back in your mouths, ppl... shesh.


how many of us really pray after we sacrifice an animal to eat before it is killed and cooked like the natives did back in the day...


my 2 cents...

[Luba]

Chico you aren't a nutcase, the people who do this to animals are!

The lobster thing always gets me. People go into a restaurant pick a live lobster from the tank AND some restaurants even let you put it in the boiling water yourself.

SMH

I was just going to have breakfast before I read your post Chico, about the cat and I'm not so hungry right now.


Regardless of culture and beliefs. If you are to slaughter an animal for human consumption, then it should be done painlessly.

I don't bash people from other countries for what they consume as food, because those countries are for the most part poor and borderline or fully third world. If one does not have enough food, then you resort to things to keep you and your family alive. This is just part of life.

What I disagree with is the inhumane conditions some of them keep the animals in, and how they kill them before consumption.

Humbly, I respect and admire those that do whatever they can for survival purposes.

Yet strangely, we would look differently at a homeless person in Toronto striking up a pit fire on the sidewalk of Bay street and putting a cat on an open fire.

Something to ponder and think about! Sorry for the visual graphic.

[chico2]

wAggie! I understand your reasoning and people starving in the third World will and must eat anything to survive.
Such is however not the case in China,the delicasies like civet-cat,badgers and rats are served in exclusive restaurants...
What bothers me most,is the total disregard for a creature feeling pain,all creatures deserve to be treated with care,even the ones being slaughtered.
This debate could go on and on,but culture should not be an excuse in 2004,events like bull-fighting,the running of the bulls in Pamplona should also be banned..the excuse of culture should not include torturing an animal.
Because the Chinese have no feeling for their wildlife,except the profitable Panda,does not mean the rest of the world has to accept it and don't think the Chinese government does not have the money to euthanise 10.000 civet-cats,badgers humanely, they do.
There were maybe 3 civet-cats to a cage,first dipped in disinfectant,then drowned and burned...it takes about 5 minutes to die by drowning,or they put electric rods to the cage and electricuted them and that has nothing to do with culture.Also wAggie I actually am vegetarian,after reading the horrid stories from slaughter-houses.

[melanie]

the best thing out of this post is that you are all showing concern and respect for animals and the discussion that has been generated, at least we can all see that we are really a bunch of thinkers, if only there were alot more people out there like us. oh and go chico2 i totally agree, my country's government is in bed with china and it infuriates me, hey, boycot the olympics until they pick up their standards. But let me make clear i would not begrudge a person eating meat anywhere, there are people starving everywhere, I just don't like it. yup waggie, i am a very strict vegetarian, i will not eat anything with animal products in it and i have not since i was a very small child, i would never eat flesh or anything that has ever had a heart beat, i will not even eat eggs, and yes i am the biggest pain at dinner parties and often go unfed