Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 08:11 PM
animallover4727 animallover4727 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 5
Anyone on this forum have a dog with or know of Masticatory Muscle Myositis or MMM?

I have written a short explanation of what MMM is at the end of my post

About 2 years ago, My 7 year old mastiff's head caved in on the left side of his face only.

I took him to the vet and we did the antibody blood test which confirms if a dog has Masticatory Muscle Myositis (or MMM for short). My dog's test came back negative. My vet said since he was opening his mouth and acting normal- to just keep an eye on it incase the other side starts to cave in and just leave it at that.

Now, 2 years later, I see a very SMALL difference in the right side of his head which scares me into thinking his other side is getting ready to cave in.

I have a vet appt and a specialist appt BUT my main reason for posting on this forum is the following:

If anyone has dealt with MMM (which i truly believe my dog has because i read online that the test can come back negative) has the prednisone helped or worsened your dog's MMM?

Also if my dog does lose all the muscles on his face, will he ever be able to open and close his mouth or will i need to seriously consider a feeding tube?

Im also obviously going to talk to my vet and specialist about this, but it would be nice if anyone who has experienced this awful illness could weigh in on the matter as well

Thank you!


**MMM is a disease where the immune system in a dog will start attacking the muscle fibers in his/her head because the body starts to think the fibers are bad. (put as plainly as possible). This causes the dog to lose the muscles that help him/her open his/her mouth. Prednisone is the only known cure from standard vets (Ive never looked into homeopathic or alternative medicines) and if the prednisone doesn't help open up the jaw, the dog will usually be on a feeding tube for life.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 2nd, 2018, 09:51 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,400
Welcome to the board, animallover4727. Sorry it is under such worrisome circumstances.

We've had members in the past whose dogs have had this disease--but I'm not sure if any of them are still current.

That being said, there are other reasons for the head muscles to atrophy, and maybe your dog has something other than MMM. I'll cross my fingers that the vets find something other than MMM that's easily treated. Please let us know what the vets say?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 3rd, 2018, 09:35 AM
animallover4727 animallover4727 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Welcome to the board, animallover4727. Sorry it is under such worrisome circumstances.

We've had members in the past whose dogs have had this disease--but I'm not sure if any of them are still current.

That being said, there are other reasons for the head muscles to atrophy, and maybe your dog has something other than MMM. I'll cross my fingers that the vets find something other than MMM that's easily treated. Please let us know what the vets say?

Thank you for welcoming me! After speaking to the vets , they do not want to put my dog on prednisone because they believe he really doesnt have MMM, since the muscle atrophy is only on one side. Instead, they want to see what the specialist says since they think his trigeminal nerve might be the problem. Everything related to that nerve on the internet is very scary.

If it turns out to be a trgeminal nerve tumor, im afraid theres not much anyone will be able to do as they are usually unoperable and dont respond well to chemo

I believe an MRI or CT scan will confirm this after getting the specialist's opinon.

Im very hopeful though, because a nerve tumor usually comes with an array of symptoms and he has absolutely none other than the muscle atrophy. He is eating, playing and acting 100% normal and shows no sign of neurological issues physically.

But only time will tell. I will update if anyone wants one.

Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:47 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,400
Another hopeful sign--it's been 2 yrs since the atrophy. I've known of some dogs with trigeminal nerve tumors and they don't last that long, sad to say. That being said, a friend of mine had a setter that had one-sided atrophy, and it did turn out to be something with the trigeminal nerve, but it was a benign condition. Some sort of nerve damage, but not fatal. Saying a little prayer that your boy's condition is also benign!

And yes, please update as you find the time. And we'd love to see some pics of your boy if you have some to share with us!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 3rd, 2018, 05:56 PM
Winston's Avatar
Winston Winston is offline
Mom of 3 precious Angels
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Posts: 7,230
Welcome to Pets.ca I dont know anything about this condition but would like to say welcome and that although some of us dont know about certain conditions it is a welcoming site even just to chat, vent and bounce ideas around! Hope you can get to the bottom of the issue.
Cindy
__________________
Tabitha April 10, 1995 - August 23, 2013
Bomber April 10, 1995 - July 12, 2010
Winston Nov 15, 1999 - September 15, 2011
Sophie Aug 30, 2011

"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
-Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 5th, 2018, 02:20 AM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 68
My daughters dog developed what the vet said was MMM last August. But his symptoms were very different to your dogs in so far as both sides of his head caved in simultaneously, he had pain that prevented him opening his mouth, he lost weight alarmingly fast, his back from the hips down became very thin very rapidly, he could only walk a few steps before he'd fall over and finally his abdomen swelled up and his breathing became very laboured.
This all happened over the course of just two and a half weeks and, while everything possible was tried, it proved impossible to save him. He was only 9 years old and, prior to this, had been a very healthy and energetic dog.
The vet was so sure that he had MMM that he advised against an autopsy as my daughter and her husband were so distraught when they lost him. However, he did send a blood sample away for testing but the results were deemed inconclusive.
We will never know for sure what caused his issues but the decline was frighteningly rapid. One thing I remember from this awful couple of weeks was the vet saying that the only place to accurately test for MMM was in the States, but I don't recall where. He said that it takes a couple of weeks to get the results back but, by the time they did, it was too late to save our precious boy anyway, even though the results were inconclusive and probably wouldn't have helped.
I will always feel in my heart that there was more going on with him than the vets identified. I don't know if they could have saved him as he was deteriorating on a daily basis, but I can't help but feel that they latched on to MMM and didn't delve any further.
I pray all works out well for your guy. I feel that, if he showed symptoms two years ago but has remained stable until now, your chances of getting to the bottom of the cause of his current symptoms and getting the proper treatment are very good.
Best of luck to you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 5th, 2018, 06:43 PM
animallover4727 animallover4727 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazanne View Post
My daughters dog developed what the vet said was MMM last August. But his symptoms were very different to your dogs in so far as both sides of his head caved in simultaneously, he had pain that prevented him opening his mouth, he lost weight alarmingly fast, his back from the hips down became very thin very rapidly, he could only walk a few steps before he'd fall over and finally his abdomen swelled up and his breathing became very laboured.
This all happened over the course of just two and a half weeks and, while everything possible was tried, it proved impossible to save him. He was only 9 years old and, prior to this, had been a very healthy and energetic dog.
The vet was so sure that he had MMM that he advised against an autopsy as my daughter and her husband were so distraught when they lost him. However, he did send a blood sample away for testing but the results were deemed inconclusive.
We will never know for sure what caused his issues but the decline was frighteningly rapid. One thing I remember from this awful couple of weeks was the vet saying that the only place to accurately test for MMM was in the States, but I don't recall where. He said that it takes a couple of weeks to get the results back but, by the time they did, it was too late to save our precious boy anyway, even though the results were inconclusive and probably wouldn't have helped.
I will always feel in my heart that there was more going on with him than the vets identified. I don't know if they could have saved him as he was deteriorating on a daily basis, but I can't help but feel that they latched on to MMM and didn't delve any further.
I pray all works out well for your guy. I feel that, if he showed symptoms two years ago but has remained stable until now, your chances of getting to the bottom of the cause of his current symptoms and getting the proper treatment are very good.
Best of luck to you.


I believe your daughter's dog did in fact have something other than MMM or a combination of MMM and something else. Since you said he lost weight very fast, it might have been something neurological that caused his muscles to deteriorate maybe?

I believe your vet should have looked at other possible causes because MMM only affects the facial muscle since they are made from different fibers than the body muscles on a dog.

I am so sorry for what happened to your daughter's dog. Its very scary to see your dog fall so ill and waste away so quickly. Its what i fear worst about my dog as well. He is only 7 i really really pray and hope he will make it to at least 10 years. I am just not ready to let go of him, he is a huge part of my life and my daily routine

Last edited by animallover4727; January 5th, 2018 at 09:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 5th, 2018, 06:49 PM
animallover4727 animallover4727 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Another hopeful sign--it's been 2 yrs since the atrophy. I've known of some dogs with trigeminal nerve tumors and they don't last that long, sad to say. That being said, a friend of mine had a setter that had one-sided atrophy, and it did turn out to be something with the trigeminal nerve, but it was a benign condition. Some sort of nerve damage, but not fatal. Saying a little prayer that your boy's condition is also benign!

And yes, please update as you find the time. And we'd love to see some pics of your boy if you have some to share with us!
After going through old pictures of my dog from when he was 3 years old and up, i realized the side of his head i thought was starting to cave in has always been that way! i compared a picture from today to a picture from 5 years ago- and its the same head on the right side! this makes me very hopeful! I guess because his left side is so caved in, it made the right side look a little wonky too.


This does not mean that Im going to give up figuring out what is wrong with his left side. I have decided before seeing the specialist who is going to charge hundreds just to do the initial consult, I will be asking my vet to do x-rays on my dog. They are relatively cheaper than MRIS and CT scans so if they show something, then whats the harm? if they don't, well then it was worth a try for a couple hundred dollars! I love my dog and if the x rays show nothing, I will pay the specialist and do whatever they think is best. He is a family member and I refuse to lose him!

Last edited by animallover4727; January 5th, 2018 at 09:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 5th, 2018, 10:02 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,400
It's so frustrating when you can't get any answers. I remember with Evan, before they finally diagnosed his inflammatory bowel disease, we went through test after expensive test and all the results were inconclusive. We finally got some answers at a veterinary teaching college about 2 hours from where we lived. They ran a few tests, too, but they see so many difficult cases that they could narrow things down very quickly and knew which tests would best lead to a diagnosis. You wouldn't happen to be near a veterinary teaching college would you? Might be worth a try if you are.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 5th, 2018, 11:01 PM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by animallover4727 View Post
I believe your daughter's dog did in fact have something other than MMM or a combination of MMM and something else. Since you said he lost weight very fast, it might have been something neurological that caused his muscles to deteriorate maybe?

I believe your vet should have looked at other possible causes because MMM only affects the facial muscle since they are made from different fibers than the body muscles on a dog.

I am so sorry for what happened to your daughter's dog. Its very scary to see your dog fall so ill and waste away so quickly. Its what i fear worst about my dog as well. He is only 7 i really really pray and hope he will make it to at least 10 years. I am just not ready to let go of him, he is a huge part of my life and my daily routine
I feel you're right - I think he did have a lot more going on. He was the sweetest little guy and such a huge loss to my daughter as she loved him so very much.
I will keep your dog in my prayers and I'm happy to note from your updated post that you got some relief in discovering that the 'new symptom' may not be a sign of any major issue but something that has been there normally for a while.
You are an excellent pet parent to follow this through either way and I wish the very best and happiest of outcomes for both you and your dog.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old January 31st, 2018, 05:23 PM
animallover4727 animallover4727 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
It's so frustrating when you can't get any answers. I remember with Evan, before they finally diagnosed his inflammatory bowel disease, we went through test after expensive test and all the results were inconclusive. We finally got some answers at a veterinary teaching college about 2 hours from where we lived. They ran a few tests, too, but they see so many difficult cases that they could narrow things down very quickly and knew which tests would best lead to a diagnosis. You wouldn't happen to be near a veterinary teaching college would you? Might be worth a try if you are.
Hi sorry for the late reply! Last few weeks have been hectic but we finally figured out what is wrong with my dog!

I went to a doctor who used to work with a neurologist specialist and he took one look at my dog and told me exactly what is wrong with him. He said damage to his cervical column (spine at the neck) caused one of his nerves to compress hence the facial deterioration.

He was also shocked at how so many vets were mis diagnosing my dog as one look at him by a well trained vet could tell me it was a neurological issue due to nerve compression in his neck and spine.

We are going to do a ct scan at a neurologists office but the prognosis looks good. He has no symptoms of a tumor or anythig of that kind.

He will no longer be vaccinated, he will be wearing a harness and never a normal collar again and he is being switched to a fully raw diet.

He will also be getting a course of prednisone to help with the inflammation in his body.

Since he doesnt need surgery, he will be getting therapy to stimulate his neck, decompress the nerve and stimulate the nerves.

Thank you for reading, i hope anyone who comes across my thread and has the same issues as my dog goes to see a doctor who is well trained at aeeing the signs of neurological damage in dogs
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old January 31st, 2018, 09:28 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,400
Awesome news, animallover! Such a wonderful update!

He's quite the lucky boy to have a family that will go the distance for him.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
atrophy, head trauma, mastiff, muscle, prednisone

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 AM.