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Old September 6th, 2012, 04:24 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Wolf Dog Breeds

I wanted to start a thread about a subject that is dear to me but also controversial. I hope to be able to do this in a way that won’t ruffle feathers.

This subject is dear to me because 22 years ago I accidentally bought a low content wolf dog hybrid. When he was six months old he killed some river rats. I stood there in disbelief when my neighbor who was facing the pup playing by the river said “uh your dog just killed a rat.” I told him that my dog must have found it dead. He argued that he had seen him grab it out of the water and shake it to death. On another occasion I let him off his leash after a very long run in the woods. He ran into a large cement pipe that went under the road and by the light of the sewer grate I had to wait till he was done exterminating a family of musk rats. He killed a ground hog on another occasion and then the neighbor’s cat. The cat used to eat with their family dog and was friendly with dogs. One day on our way home I spotted our dog running like a wolf by the side of a cow and jumping at it in exactly the way wolves jump at game. We stopped the car immediately and the farmers were coming out of the barn with pitch forks. We managed to get the dog into the car and an argument ensued with the farmers. They said to my husband “if there is anything wrong with my cow you will pay for her” to which my husband replied ‘no problem, but if I pay for her he will eat her” To my surprise the farmers laughed and the cow seemed to do fine after that. We were however being sued by the cat owners who had been friends and we were no longer able to be insured if we kept the dog. We called the breeder who told us that her line of black huskies had extinguished and she needed him anyways. I cried when we signed his papers back over to her and as I heard him howling as we drove away down the 300 yard driveway.

My husband and I wrote to the owner of Mission Wolf hoping he would allow me to post images directly to this forum and he has agreed.

This is the reply I got from Mission Wolf:

Thanks for your work to help educate others about the reality of owning a wild canine (and for your patience with my reply).

Yes, you are welcome to post any images you like. Please provide copyright credits to M:W and the artist of the image where appropriate.

Have a great year and good luck,
Kent



I was hoping someone could help me make a sticky about this problem. I want to give credit to the photographers but couldn't immediately find their names on the website so for now I will post a link to the website. http://www.missionwolf.com/

Also The Dog Whisperer did an episode on this problem and part of it is on you tube. The head of Mission Wolf is on that episode. I think these groups are doing great work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfpQVjYFcSE

I specifically asked to use the images directly on this website but realized I may not be computer savy enough to do it. I hesitate to copy them to photobucket.

I am looking forward to hearing your opinions on this subject.
  #2  
Old September 6th, 2012, 07:29 PM
Choochi Choochi is offline
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If you do a search this topic was discussed not too long ago.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 08:38 AM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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Contrary to popular belief, wolf hybrids are pretty rare. A wolf doesn't make a good pet and trying to keep one as a house dog is kind of like trying to pretend that a tiger is a house cat.

There are several breeds of dog that are known for their high prey drive and would kill as you have described. Huskies and Malamutes both are known for this - as they are for their tendency to roam if allowed. This is not to say that your dog was not a wolf hybrid, just that there are breeds out there who are capable of doing the kind of damage you are talking about.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 11:50 AM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Originally Posted by LavenderRott View Post
Contrary to popular belief, wolf hybrids are pretty rare. A wolf doesn't make a good pet and trying to keep one as a house dog is kind of like trying to pretend that a tiger is a house cat.

There are several breeds of dog that are known for their high prey drive and would kill as you have described. Huskies and Malamutes both are known for this - as they are for their tendency to roam if allowed. This is not to say that your dog was not a wolf hybrid, just that there are breeds out there who are capable of doing the kind of damage you are talking about.
When I bought my dog from a woman who had the current world champion I was looking for a pure bred Husky. However by walking around the property I seemed to make the breeders nervous. Then from around the corner of the barn I spotted an enclosure. Up until this point I had only seen wolves on TV. Needless to say I must have looked very worried. I asked if they were wolves and in my mind the wheels were turning I had so badly wanted that dog but everything was telling me turn around, forget about it go home. Yet the long wait for the puppies, saving my money. She admitted they were wolves but explained how it was breed-ed in then diluted to the extreme. I guess I really wanted to believe it. This was 25 (sorry I just realized I did the math wrong we got the puppy when my youngest was born and she is 25 now) years ago and was a well known practice at the time. The notion was that the dogs would run harder and longer. My papers however stated that my dog was a purebred husky son of the world champion at the time.

Our vet clued us into certain anatomical features in our dog that were more standard to the wolf than the husky. He was over sized, his teeth were very large, the position of his legs apparently was a telltale sign. Then I met people with purebred huskies from other breeders. Many seemed not to know what I was talking about when I disclosed the problems we were having.

Our neighbors had nicknamed the dog Houdini for his amazing escapes, eating through a door, jumping over a eight foot enclosure somehow ect.

Others did not have the problems I was having. I am sure other huskies may have been just like my dog. His lineage is strong in Canada. I got my husky when he was a pup and all of his brothers died of rabies. The breeder sold many dogs in France as well. This is the reason she was eager to take him back. I can't complain about the breeder because in my opinion she was extraordinary building world champions. However the guilt of having to abandon a dog because of the lawsuit by a neighbor and my inability to contain him properly has stayed with me. When I hear about the plight of wolf hybrids Kim comes to mind. He was beautiful and loyal and probably my best friend and yet I could not because of money find a way to keep him. I always hope it ended well for him but I will always be haunted by his howling as I abandoned him back to the breeder when he was six. Weather any of the wolves in the enclosure were distant relatives of his I will never really know.

I feel strongly about the fate of so many animals that end up in shelters weather they be dog, wolf or whatever. The reason always seems to be our lack of understanding and preparation or sometimes a child is allergic.

I am glad this subject was brought up however did not see a sticky so the site can give a strong opinion on this subject as they do about unnecessary breeding. I have seen forums encouraging sixteen year olds to do breeding of birds even though they don't know who would pay for the vet in the case of an emergency.

I am very appreciative of the responses and hope I can avoid one person from having to abandon a lovely animal like Kim.


To this day these pictures are of the saddest day of my life. I Took them so I could remember him, also a drawing in aquarable crayons was done during the trip. It is in my album on this site.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Choochi Choochi is offline
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Originally Posted by kittiesandbirds View Post


To this day these pictures are of the saddest day of my life. I Took them so I could remember him, also a drawing in aquarable crayons was done during the trip. It is in my album on this site.

Actually in those pictures your dog looks perfectly like a show line husky and not a thing like any thing resembling a wolf. And yes, the type of behaviour you are describing would also be very fitting of many huskies.

And BTW I would be taking with a grain of salt any information coming from a woman who without much thought hands you forged papers. Either that or she saw an opportunity to sell some one a "wolf dog" to seal the deal and you still only had just a husky pup and the papers were correct but you were led to believe some thing else. Either way, shady.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:27 PM
kittiesandbirds kittiesandbirds is offline
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Originally Posted by Barkingdog View Post
I knew a woman that had a coyote/dog . She was very sweet but she had a very hard adjusting when her owner moved to a new house. The coyote/dog kept going back to her old house , she just could not get use to be moved around like a pet. I felt bad for the coyote/dog as the owner was trying to treat her as if she was a dog and the owner was always getting mad at the poor thing for not behaving like a 'dog'. There is no needs to breed dogs with wolves , it not fair for the animal, wolves are wild animals and their traits will show up in the mix breed. If it should attack another dog or person the first thing people will do is to blame the wolf part of the breed. Please go to a shelter and you'll find all kind of dogs that need a forever home . Why do want a wolf/dog anyway?? I think it is very selfish to try and made a pet out of a wild animal.
Thank you I agree totally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Choochi View Post
Actually in those pictures your dog looks perfectly like a show line husky and not a thing like any thing resembling a wolf. And yes, the type of behaviour you are describing would also be very fitting of many huskies.

And BTW I would be taking with a grain of salt any information coming from a woman who without much thought hands you forged papers. Either that or she saw an opportunity to sell some one a "wolf dog" to seal the deal and you still only had just a husky pup and the papers were correct but you were led to believe some thing else. Either way, shady.
She sold him to us as a pure bred husky. My vet had problems with his size among other things she spoke of his angular eyes. Also we could not show him because of his size even though we paid for breeding rights he was never bred but not for this reason. At any rate the breeder told us that the wolves were breeded in and diluted to the maximum. I was a bit overwhelmed and didn't ask any of the right questions. I did not ask if he had any wolf in his ancestry. As an artist I can not help but notice that his eyes are way more angular than many of the huskies I encounter. But weather he have wolf or none is not my concern because the people with wolf hybrids have the same problems. I will never know if any of the wolf blood coursed through his veins but I did see them on the property. I have no idea if it was legal at the time.

The reason I respect the breeder is because the area photographed is where she had her dogs. She did sledding and knew how to raise these dogs. The only thing I don't like is having seen the wolves enclosure, I always felt bad about that. I did not respect that part of it. The point I want to make is that wolves and dogs should not be bred together. She did admit to having some problems with her neighbors however being a famous breeder things worked themselves out.

By the way my husband is six feet three and my youngest is six in the picture but now just shy of six feet. I don't know myself how typical his size was of a wolf but was just told this by the vet.

I would not have bought the puppy if he had given off a strong indication of having wolf. I too was sure he was 100% husky till the vet pointed out certain things. I guess I will never know. Still his plight aligns with theirs.

By the way I mentioned my experience with Kim because people who buy a wolf hybrid may have the same heartache. I don't want to make the thread about kim though. I would rather discuss the problem of wolf hybridism and selling as pets. The owner of Mission wolf has to turn dogs away every year because he can not take them all in. I find this sad. These animals are destroyed and that could have been a possibility for Kim. Education can save these dogs before they are born I believe.

Last edited by kittiesandbirds; September 7th, 2012 at 12:49 PM.
  #7  
Old September 7th, 2012, 12:16 PM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittiesandbirds View Post

I can't complain about the breeder because in my opinion she was extraordinary building world champions.
If she sold you a dog that was a wolf hybrid (and the dog in the pictures look like a well bred husky) and gave you papers that said the dog was a purebred husky - she either lied to you about there being wolf in your dog (which I suspect is true, based on the photos) or she was lying to others by selling them dogs that were not purebred. Either way, there is nothing extraordinary about it and such practices would get her kicked out of either the AKC or the CKC now.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 11:50 AM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Originally Posted by kittiesandbirds View Post
I wanted to start a thread about a subject that is dear to me but also controversial. I hope to be able to do this in a way that won’t ruffle feathers.

This subject is dear to me because 22 years ago I accidentally bought a low content wolf dog hybrid. When he was six months old he killed some river rats. I stood there in disbelief when my neighbor who was facing the pup playing by the river said “uh your dog just killed a rat.” I told him that my dog must have found it dead. He argued that he had seen him grab it out of the water and shake it to death. On another occasion I let him off his leash after a very long run in the woods. He ran into a large cement pipe that went under the road and by the light of the sewer grate I had to wait till he was done exterminating a family of musk rats. He killed a ground hog on another occasion and then the neighbor’s cat. The cat used to eat with their family dog and was friendly with dogs. One day on our way home I spotted our dog running like a wolf by the side of a cow and jumping at it in exactly the way wolves jump at game. We stopped the car immediately and the farmers were coming out of the barn with pitch forks. We managed to get the dog into the car and an argument ensued with the farmers. They said to my husband “if there is anything wrong with my cow you will pay for her” to which my husband replied ‘no problem, but if I pay for her he will eat her” To my surprise the farmers laughed and the cow seemed to do fine after that. We were however being sued by the cat owners who had been friends and we were no longer able to be insured if we kept the dog. We called the breeder who told us that her line of black huskies had extinguished and she needed him anyways. I cried when we signed his papers back over to her and as I heard him howling as we drove away down the 300 yard driveway.

My husband and I wrote to the owner of Mission Wolf hoping he would allow me to post images directly to this forum and he has agreed.

This is the reply I got from Mission Wolf:

Thanks for your work to help educate others about the reality of owning a wild canine (and for your patience with my reply).

Yes, you are welcome to post any images you like. Please provide copyright credits to M:W and the artist of the image where appropriate.

Have a great year and good luck,
Kent



I was hoping someone could help me make a sticky about this problem. I want to give credit to the photographers but couldn't immediately find their names on the website so for now I will post a link to the website. http://www.missionwolf.com/

Also The Dog Whisperer did an episode on this problem and part of it is on you tube. The head of Mission Wolf is on that episode. I think these groups are doing great work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfpQVjYFcSE

I specifically asked to use the images directly on this website but realized I may not be computer savy enough to do it. I hesitate to copy them to photobucket.

I am looking forward to hearing your opinions on this subject.
I knew a woman that had a coyote/dog . She was very sweet but she had a very hard adjusting when her owner moved to a new house. The coyote/dog kept going back to her old house , she just could not get use to be moved around like a pet. I felt bad for the coyote/dog as the owner was trying to treat her as if she was a dog and the owner was always getting mad at the poor thing for not behaving like a 'dog'. There is no needs to breed dogs with wolves , it not fair for the animal, wolves are wild animals and their traits will show up in the mix breed. If it should attack another dog or person the first thing people will do is to blame the wolf part of the breed. Please go to a shelter and you'll find all kind of dogs that need a forever home . Why do want a wolf/dog anyway?? I think it is very selfish to try and made a pet out of a wild animal.
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