Help! feral cat has 3 kittens under my porch

[althe]

Feral cat has been populating the neighborhood for nearly 2 years and she had 3 kittens under my porch who are 1 month old tomorrow (about 18 days old in photo). She used to bolt at first sight of me but now stays in the box when I leave the food. The cardboard box is now too small for their size + mother. Shouldn't I be putting them in a bigger box. She's very protective and has refused to eat the 3 or 4 times that I've examined her babies. Who knows how she'll react to me changing the box. I don't think I'd approach while she's there, I don't trust her not to attack.

How do I proceed to try and save this family? It crossed my mind to try and trap her and then to transfer the family to a room in my basement. This way I'd be fairly sure to save the kittens but I don't honestly know if this is actually a viable option. If she decides to move them, I'd likely lose sight of them which would result in three more unsterilized feral cats in an already overpopulated neighborhood.

I don't have much real life experience with a situation like this. I live in east end Montreal and the pound is a well known high kill place (Berger Blanc) and I don't know if there are, or how to contact, any TNR (catch neuter release) in my area or even if they could help. Advice of members will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Teresa

[Love4himies]

Thank you for caring for these guys . I'm hoping she is only semi-feral, meaning she has had some life exposure to humans and can get used to them again.

The only way to break the cycle is to spay the momma (she will thank you ) and socialize the kittens to be adopted out.

If it was me, I would try to trap the mom, bring her into the house (locked in a room) along with her kittens. It sounds like in time she will get used to humans. I would not, however try to pick her up or the kittens while she is around because she may indeed get angry. How aggressive has she been with you? How close have you gotten to her?

As for the box, can you put out a bigger box beside the used one and put the blanket (and the kittens) in the new box when momma isn't around? Leaving the scent for them is quite important.

Good luck!

[Longblades]

Double Ditto above. I'd try to live trap Mom while the kittens are too small to skitter off and away. You are lucky to find the kittens. I would also guess that the Mom isn't as wild as she lets on, otherwise I doubt she'd have chosen your porch.

[Barkingdog]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

Thank you for caring for these guys . I'm hoping she is only semi-feral, meaning she has had some life exposure to humans and can get used to them again.

The only way to break the cycle is to spay the momma (she will thank you ) and socialize the kittens to be adopted out.

If it was me, I would try to trap the mom, bring her into the house (locked in a room) along with her kittens. It sounds like in time she will get used to humans. I would not, however try to pick her up or the kittens while she is around because she may indeed get angry. How aggressive has she been with you? How close have you gotten to her?

As for the box, can you put out a bigger box beside the used one and put the blanket (and the kittens) in the new box when momma isn't around? Leaving the scent for them is quite important.

Good luck!

I would not touch the kittens , this could made the mother reject them when she smell a human scene on her kittens. The cats could also have a lot fleas and they would get on the OP pets.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Barkingdog

I would not touch the kittens , this could made the mother reject them when she smell a human scene on her kittens. The cats could also have a lot fleas and they would get on the OP pets.

I don't think so.

[Barkingdog]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

I don't think so.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6453197_wo...-kittens_.html




I had rescued homeless cats and they had fleas.

[lindapalm]

I agree that the kittens should be handled by you now, and as often as possible. I don't know if you want to bother with it, but when I would have an adult cat that I trapped, and I wanted him to get used to being touched and I didn't want to get bitten or scratched, I would take a glove and stuff it with kleenex. Make sure the fingers are stuffed, too. Insert a 2-3 foot dowel or stick into the middle finger, and tape the wrist of the glove around the dowel. I left the hand part of the glove in the cage, and the dowel part outside, inbetween the bars. Throughout the day I would go and pet the cat with the glove, starting out VERY slowly. The cat wasn't very happy to start, but I wasn't worried about getting hurt, so I didn't care if he tried to kill the glove. It took awhile, but I really think it safely helped him get used to being touched.

[14+kitties]

Sounds absolutely right to me. Of course mom is stressed. But she is eating, she is using (somewhat) the litter box, she is doing what she can. Can you try putting a few things in the box for her to play with? She may not go near them when you are there but she will likely play with them when it's quiet. She is likely bored out of her skull too. Don't forget before you trapped her she was able to roam and do what she wanted.

Please, please, please play with the kittens. The longer they go without human interaction the harder it is going to be to tame them.They need the touch of humans. (If you are thinking of treating them for fleas please do not use any over the counter flea meds. Especially for tiny babes.)

Love the crate set up. Mine is an L shaped but that's because of the spot it's in. Great job!!

It's stressful trying to do what you think is right. Keep on keeping on. Eventually it becomes so worth it.

Here's some great info for handling feral kittens. They are at the right age for it...
http://www.messybeast.com/feralkit.htm

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Barkingdog

http://www.ehow.com/about_6453197_wo...-kittens_.html




I had rescued homeless cats and they had fleas.

I meant about the mother rejecting the kittens. Not the fleas. Fleas can come into a house on a human's socks.

[cpietra16]

Hi Althe, I just got a pm from L4H and I just wanted to put in my two cents...Everyone here has given you great advise and knowing someone from a rescue is great. I have done a lot of TNR and I only release cats that are extremely timid and will never ever feel safe in a home. I should also say that I re-release them in their own area...so they have a better chance to survive.
As far as how she reacts...it is very normal. I had a few ferals in my home who destroyed the curtains trying to escape thru the window. Your mommy cat is just scared. She has never been inside a home. It would be the same if you were sent to a different country with different customs and a language you never heard of...for a cat it is 10x worse.
These cats can be tamed but it takes years and a lot of patience to do so. I have two feral cats who have lived with me for 4 years...they are both around 7 years old. One is still hissing and the other will rub up to me. They are approachable but only with me and my kids.
I know many will not agree, but If were given the choice of relocating the mom to a different place or euthanize...I would euthanize...it is not fair fo rthe mom to have to try and make it into another colony. Many colonies will fight other cats from coming in. anyway just my two cents.
feel free to PM me and I will give you more info and more names of people who may be able to help mom. good luck

[althe]

Thank you Love4 and Longblades. You've confirmed that my options are limited.

Only once did I go to within 4 feet from her when she was in the box and at that range I felt like she might lunge at me. She stiffened and raised her head out and hissed and she was Wide-eyed and yep a bit scary. I've never gotten within 10 yards of her the times that I've seen her crossing through the yard. She takes off like a bat outta hell, but she stops once or twice to look straight at me and hiss. I’d be more than happy to keep her if she’d let me.

The weather was very cold and wet when she had them, which was extra incentive for her to use the box which was under the porch. There's also only one small opening through the trellis side panels to get under there.

I'll start making calls tomorrow to try and find an appropriate cage and cross my fingers this works. If she doesn't become a bit less fearful, socializing the kittens and trapping her a 2nd time after keeping her in the basement could also be difficult. We're moving in August so I won't get another chance to do this. I really hope it works.

Teresa

[Koteburo]

Thank you for caring for this little family!
Please let us know what happened if you caught her.
I'd do the same as adviced. Capture the mom and put her with her babies in a room until things are good enough to proceed and spay her and socialize the kittens to find homes for them.
And again: Thank you and keep us updated please

[Love4himies]

Good luck!

[marko]

Any updates on this? Thanks and good luck!!

[Edenca]

Have you tried to research other rescue groups in Montreal? I'm sure there must be a few who would be willing to offer some suggestions. I live in a city of 350,000 and there are at least 8 different groups.

[Barkingdog]

Originally Posted by althe

Feral cat has been populating the neighborhood for nearly 2 years and she had 3 kittens under my porch who are 1 month old tomorrow (about 18 days old in photo). She used to bolt at first sight of me but now stays in the box when I leave the food. The cardboard box is now too small for their size + mother. Shouldn't I be putting them in a bigger box. She's very protective and has refused to eat the 3 or 4 times that I've examined her babies. Who knows how she'll react to me changing the box. I don't think I'd approach while she's there, I don't trust her not to attack.

How do I proceed to try and save this family? It crossed my mind to try and trap her and then to transfer the family to a room in my basement. This way I'd be fairly sure to save the kittens but I don't honestly know if this is actually a viable option. If she decides to move them, I'd likely lose sight of them which would result in three more unsterilized feral cats in an already overpopulated neighborhood.

I don't have much real life experience with a situation like this. I live in east end Montreal and the pound is a well known high kill place (Berger Blanc) and I don't know if there are, or how to contact, any TNR (catch neuter release) in my area or even if they could help. Advice of members will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Teresa

I was thinking if you could put a pill in the cat food to made the mother relax a little and got some good heavy gloves and another person to help you put the mother in a crate. Then you would be able to bring them all to no kill a shelter. Does this sound too crazy??

[althe]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share recent developments with you all. I’m attaching a photo of the two dog crates we have joined together for this feral mom and her 3 kittens.

This cat is not just a bit feral, she’s feral period and shows no signs at all of ever having had any human contact. She growls and hisses and is threatening and she has lunged at me through the crate a couple times. I approach with extreme caution only to clean litter and leave food.

The feral mother has been inside this crate/housing for 5-6 days now and she is clearly very stressed. She has destroyed all the strips of cardboard we had tied around the bottom of crates simply to protect kittens from larger openings and she has been gradually destroying the very sturdy cardboard box the kittens were born in which we had placed inside the crate. This entire housing unit has been covered over with blankets; it’s placed in a workshop area behind the garage where there’s almost no noise or traffic. She does not use the litter box normally like a domesticated cat; a few times she has done her business outside the box and then emptied the litter box to cover her mess. Several times I found the litter box had been completely emptied it I could find no evidence that she had peed/pooed; she had just emptied the box. Maybe this is also a sign of stress. She eats the food I leave her.

The kittens are 5 weeks old this week. One of the 3 started exploring around the crate-housing 48 hours ago and started nibbling on the wet cat food. The other 2 only started this morning. I don’t spend any time with them, I don’t handle them. They will stay with their mother until at least 8 weeks old (approx. June 18). I’ve found a family for 1 kitten and still have to find homes for the other 2.

I’ve spoken with someone who’s involved in a local csr/tnr program. Thank god I have this person’s support and help because there’s no way I would have known how to proceed from this point onward. I’ve been given a lot of information about how to deal with a feral cat in this situation, which is not easy, fairly complicated, and sadly, does not always have a positive outcome.

If I have correctly understood, this is how it will unfold: After the kittens are separated from mother, I will transport her to a clinic where she’ll be tested for feline aids/leukemia. If she tests positive for either of these diseases, she’ll be euthanized. If she tests negative, she’ll be spayed. She will not be released back into my [her] neighborhood because I have immediate neighbors who have told me they would kill her, and this is the general point of view of many people around here. She will therefore have to be relocated to a new environment, and this will be the most difficult part of this whole experience.

I’ve been told that, based on the past experiences of relocating feral cats, approximately 40% have been lost; they simply disappeared so were possibly killed by vehicles or starved for lack of finding a food source. These ferals simply don’t successfully root to their new environment despite the work that dedicated people do to carefully and gradually try to acclimate them to the new environment before completely releasing them.

I had no idea what I was getting into. I will be moving away in a couple months and after watching this cat for nearly two years just barely survive our harsh winters and have three litters under the bushes, I simply couldn’t leave without at least trying to do something to at least stop this cycle. I have no experience with rescue, I have limited resources, and if it wasn’t for the support and advice of animal lovers on this website and the help of my local SPCA and the connection they gave me to a person who is dedicated and knowledgeable about feral cats, I would have been lost.

Thank you all for being here and for helping me. I will start another thread early next week in the hope of finding a guardian angel for this feral cat, because she really is going to need a guardian angel in about one month’s time if she’s going to have any chance of surviving.

teresa

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by althe

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share recent developments with you all. I’m attaching a photo of the two dog crates we have joined together for this feral mom and her 3 kittens.

This cat is not just a bit feral, she’s feral period and shows no signs at all of ever having had any human contact. She growls and hisses and is threatening and she has lunged at me through the crate a couple times. I approach with extreme caution only to clean litter and leave food.

This is the way Rose reacted when she was caged in at the HS, she was a totally different cat at home. I think it was fear making her behave in such a way. Even I was scared of her when I visited her during her short stay there and I had her in my home for months before that.

The feral mother has been inside this crate/housing for 5-6 days now and she is clearly very stressed. She has destroyed all the strips of cardboard we had tied around the bottom of crates simply to protect kittens from larger openings and she has been gradually destroying the very sturdy cardboard box the kittens were born in which we had placed inside the crate. This entire housing unit has been covered over with blankets; it’s placed in a workshop area behind the garage where there’s almost no noise or traffic. She does not use the litter box normally like a domesticated cat; a few times she has done her business outside the box and then emptied the litter box to cover her mess. Several times I found the litter box had been completely emptied it I could find no evidence that she had peed/pooed; she had just emptied the box. Maybe this is also a sign of stress. She eats the food I leave her.


Once again, that was how Rose was when I first had her in the kitten room. Every morning & evening, I had to sweep the litter back into the box . Are you cleaning with an enzyme cleaner? I found a deeper litter box was much better for her. She stopped chewing every piece of cardboard about 2 years after she came to me.

The kittens are 5 weeks old this week. One of the 3 started exploring around the crate-housing 48 hours ago and started nibbling on the wet cat food. The other 2 only started this morning. I don’t spend any time with them, I don’t handle them. They will stay with their mother until at least 8 weeks old (approx. June 18). I’ve found a family for 1 kitten and still have to find homes for the other 2.

I think the earlier you start handling the kittens, the better. AND I would be handling them away from their momma if possible so momma can't react aggressively towards you, teaching the kittens that humans are bad

I’ve spoken with someone who’s involved in a local csr/tnr program. Thank god I have this person’s support and help because there’s no way I would have known how to proceed from this point onward. I’ve been given a lot of information about how to deal with a feral cat in this situation, which is not easy, fairly complicated, and sadly, does not always have a positive outcome.

It is very difficult when the cat doesn't have a background with humans

If I have correctly understood, this is how it will unfold: After the kittens are separated from mother, I will transport her to a clinic where she’ll be tested for feline aids/leukemia. If she tests positive for either of these diseases, she’ll be euthanized. If she tests negative, she’ll be spayed. She will not be released back into my [her] neighborhood because I have immediate neighbors who have told me they would kill her, and this is the general point of view of many people around here. She will therefore have to be relocated to a new environment, and this will be the most difficult part of this whole experience.

I’ve been told that, based on the past experiences of relocating feral cats, approximately 40% have been lost; they simply disappeared so were possibly killed by vehicles or starved for lack of finding a food source. These ferals simply don’t successfully root to their new environment despite the work that dedicated people do to carefully and gradually try to acclimate them to the new environment before completely releasing them.

I had no idea what I was getting into. I will be moving away in a couple months and after watching this cat for nearly two years just barely survive our harsh winters and have three litters under the bushes, I simply couldn’t leave without at least trying to do something to at least stop this cycle. I have no experience with rescue, I have limited resources, and if it wasn’t for the support and advice of animal lovers on this website and the help of my local SPCA and the connection they gave me to a person who is dedicated and knowledgeable about feral cats, I would have been lost.

Thank you all for being here and for helping me. I will start another thread early next week in the hope of finding a guardian angel for this feral cat, because she really is going to need a guardian angel in about one month’s time if she’s going to have any chance of surviving.

teresa

I hope you find one . I'll pm cpietra to see if she has any suggestions for momma.

[Longblades]

I'm not going to say your feral Momma is the same as the cat I have but perhaps if I relate my current experience you will be a bit reassured.

I know this kitten was born feral. His Mum might have been a dumpee but he is the result. Along with two sisters who are now both ordinary house pets and were trapped at age 6 months.

He, the one I have, was about age 7 months when live trapped, now 11 or 12 months.

He acted just like your Momma cat, out of fear I am convinced. I mean the hissing and aggressive behaviour. Except he only charged the door at the Vet's. Here he cowered at the back of his cardboard box. He took a nice slice out the Vet's hand when she tried to sex him pre-neuter. Have my doubts about that Vet.

He also ripped up his cardboard box. I'm sure it was stress but as it seemed to be an outlet to relieve the stress I left the cardboard. I did look every day to assess whether the amount of new cardboard shreds seemed to match what was missing from the box. Other wise I was afraid if he ate it there would be trouble. I'm sure he didn't eat it.

Luckily for me he was very good in the litterbox and did not go outside it.

Once I started playing with him, with a stick that wiggled, he would get stressed and hyperventilate/pant. I was very careful to not look him in the eye and to make conservative hand motions.

Long story short he is not completely tame but is now loose in my house during the day, gated in my office at night. He will come to me and ask for a pet or a play but I cannot pick him up. I am clicker training him to that end but it makes my dog think he is missing out. He is ready for a home. This kitten that both the Vet and the cat rescue said was not worth the bother and to just neuter and release back where he was found.

I heartily agree with L4h that handling the kittens as young as you can is imperative. A 5 or 6 week old that we had was tame enough to go to a new home in a month and a half. If they are going to be pets the younger the better for handling.

ETA: Oh, and your crate arrangement looks GREAT. Hmmm, my OH made a special crate because I was afraid even the bigger kitten might be able to get though the grid on my dog crate. Or at least try and get stuck. How big is the grid on that dog crate?

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Longblades

I was very careful to not look him in the eye and to make conservative hand motions.

L

Great point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still do this with Rose if I want to pat her in a room or position is not one of the "normal, safe place to be pat" ones.

[Barkingdog]

Originally Posted by althe

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share recent developments with you all. I’m attaching a photo of the two dog crates we have joined together for this feral mom and her 3 kittens.

This cat is not just a bit feral, she’s feral period and shows no signs at all of ever having had any human contact. She growls and hisses and is threatening and she has lunged at me through the crate a couple times. I approach with extreme caution only to clean litter and leave food.

The feral mother has been inside this crate/housing for 5-6 days now and she is clearly very stressed. She has destroyed all the strips of cardboard we had tied around the bottom of crates simply to protect kittens from larger openings and she has been gradually destroying the very sturdy cardboard box the kittens were born in which we had placed inside the crate. This entire housing unit has been covered over with blankets; it’s placed in a workshop area behind the garage where there’s almost no noise or traffic. She does not use the litter box normally like a domesticated cat; a few times she has done her business outside the box and then emptied the litter box to cover her mess. Several times I found the litter box had been completely emptied it I could find no evidence that she had peed/pooed; she had just emptied the box. Maybe this is also a sign of stress. She eats the food I leave her.

The kittens are 5 weeks old this week. One of the 3 started exploring around the crate-housing 48 hours ago and started nibbling on the wet cat food. The other 2 only started this morning. I don’t spend any time with them, I don’t handle them. They will stay with their mother until at least 8 weeks old (approx. June 18). I’ve found a family for 1 kitten and still have to find homes for the other 2.

I’ve spoken with someone who’s involved in a local csr/tnr program. Thank god I have this person’s support and help because there’s no way I would have known how to proceed from this point onward. I’ve been given a lot of information about how to deal with a feral cat in this situation, which is not easy, fairly complicated, and sadly, does not always have a positive outcome.

If I have correctly understood, this is how it will unfold: After the kittens are separated from mother, I will transport her to a clinic where she’ll be tested for feline aids/leukemia. If she tests positive for either of these diseases, she’ll be euthanized. If she tests negative, she’ll be spayed. She will not be released back into my [her] neighborhood because I have immediate neighbors who have told me they would kill her, and this is the general point of view of many people around here. She will therefore have to be relocated to a new environment, and this will be the most difficult part of this whole experience.

I’ve been told that, based on the past experiences of relocating feral cats, approximately 40% have been lost; they simply disappeared so were possibly killed by vehicles or starved for lack of finding a food source. These ferals simply don’t successfully root to their new environment despite the work that dedicated people do to carefully and gradually try to acclimate them to the new environment before completely releasing them.

I had no idea what I was getting into. I will be moving away in a couple months and after watching this cat for nearly two years just barely survive our harsh winters and have three litters under the bushes, I simply couldn’t leave without at least trying to do something to at least stop this cycle. I have no experience with rescue, I have limited resources, and if it wasn’t for the support and advice of animal lovers on this website and the help of my local SPCA and the connection they gave me to a person who is dedicated and knowledgeable about feral cats, I would have been lost.

Thank you all for being here and for helping me. I will start another thread early next week in the hope of finding a guardian angel for this feral cat, because she really is going to need a guardian angel in about one month’s time if she’s going to have any chance of surviving.

teresa

Wow, I can't believe people will kill the cat if you release her back in her
habitat. I hate to say this if you can't find a person to care for the cat it may be kinder to put her down than have moved her to a new place. I think you had done a wonderful job in helping the cat and her kittens. That cat had to known your house was a safe place to have her kittens. Animals are good at finding kind people.

[althe]

RE: Are you cleaning with an enzyme cleaner?

Enzyme cleaner???? Help! What should I be using to clean the bottom of the crate? I was simply wiping it down with clean wet rags then wiping dry. The litter situation (being thrown out all over the place) is really wearing me down and I have to find a solution. It's back-breaking to have to clean up 3-4 times a day and I'm not that young anymore. Also, the kittens seem to suddenly be eating quite a bit of wet food, which I wasn't expecting this quickly, so even more reason to find a solution for the litter box mess. I was going to go looking for a small covered litter box tomorrow.

Different people have differing opinions about any number of things, in this case handling of the kittens. As it turns out, 2 of them came running to the crate door to greet me a few minutes ago. They are becoming increasingly active very quickly now and I suspect a couple minutes a day away from their mother might do them good, even if it's only for some play time without mom.

teresa

[Longblades]

Yes, they might have fleas. Our little fella was live trapped in the middle of winter and he had fleas. The Vet gave him Revolution. I'm not fond of flea sprays/powders but I'd read the label on what is available and use it if I could. Make sure it's safe for kittens.

Failing an enzyme cleaner like Nature's Miracle, plain old vinegar should work. Do NOT use amonia. Smells like cat pee and may accomplish the reverse of what you want. Hey, that's an idea. Put a small drop of amonia in the kitty litter. It is a method to try to train cats on a litter box. I forgot about that.

I put the litter tray inside a bigger cardboard box. Any kicked out lands in the box. But my feral is nearly full grown and obviously that won't work for the wee kittens.

You are doing a great job. It's a lot to take on. We are all rooting for you and the little family.