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Old March 17th, 2019, 09:49 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Kittenís severe reaction to antibiotic...

Iím hoping someone can help me. We have a 9 month old kitten who has had a tough time for the last couple of months. It all started with an URI at about the time she was going to be spayed. She was sneezing, had eye & nose discharge. She was given medication for her eyes and that cleared it all up. But she kept sneezing. She was put on Clavamox and thatís when the real issues began. She had a terrible reaction to it. Her skin became very red and inflamed, her eyes were red and swollen and she broke out in lesions over most of her body. The worst of the lesions were on her face, ears, neck, legs and feet but she did have them on her belly and sides. She had a skin biopsy done so that we could figure out what the heck happened. She also got diarrhea and her appetite decreased significantly. While we awaited the results of the biopsies, she was put on prednisolone. Her appetite started to get better and she finally had a normal poop! The results of the biopsies were not good, in fact, they were terrible. It turned out to be an extremely rare yet severe dermatological reaction. Couldíve been the meds that triggered it but it would require aggressive treatment if she was going to make it through this.

Her pred was increased, she was prescribed Atopica, pain meds (buprenorphine) and two antibiotics (zeniquin & antirobe). After starting the anitibuitics, she started to have soft stool again. It started as soft stool but then became liquidy. Her appetite and energy levels increased and went back to normal and her skin leasions started to improve. Eventually she was taken off the buprenorphine as she hated it and was given gaba pentin instead. 3 weeks later, her skin looked so much better, her scabs were falling off and there were no new lesions. She went offf the antibiotics and was no longer taking the gaba pentin. She was eating and playing. However, she still had diarrhea! It made her bum sore so she was prescribed an ointment for her bum which cleared that up. The whole time sheís been taking Forti Flora.

This past Wednesday (3 days after stopping the antibiotics), she had bright red blood in her stool. She was very uncomfortable and her poops were watery. She had a physical and everything seemed good. Her Atopica had already been decreased by half at this point and her skin was clearing up. Thankfully by Friday her stool no longer had blood and were slightly firmer, still liquidy though. We donít know what to do about her diarrhea! It kills us to see her like this.

She is eating and playing. Her Atopica is now every other day as we continue to wean her off it. The vet has been in contact with a dermatologist throughout and has contacted an internal specialist as well. There is one medication that we can try to help her with the diarrhea but it comes with risks. Condsidering her reaction to the clavamox, we are scared to try more meds. Sheís been though so much already.

Does anyone have any idea of what else we can do for her? Has anyone experienced something like this before? We want her to be her happy, bouncy and healthy self again.
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  #2  
Old March 18th, 2019, 03:45 AM
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RUSTYcat RUSTYcat is offline
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Hi Ria and welcome to the forum !

I suspect that her gut bacteria/flora have all but been destroyed, starting at first with the Clavamox and then the others, particularly the clindamycin.

I'll give you a quote from someone with whom I used to regularly correspond - it's in two parts and very specific to what you're dealing with:
"As to a healthy probiotic, Fortiflora is not it. It is mostly animal digest and has just one strain of probiotic in it. If it hasn't helped the diarrhea, it isn't going to. Mia needs her healthy flora replaced, meaning she needs a good acidophilus + bifidus based multi-strain probiotic. One well accepted by cats is the people probiotic, Renew Life, Ultimate Flora, 15 bn CFU. Give 1/2 capsule on or in food 2x a day, at least 2 hours after antibiotic administration, and continue it at least a month after you finish the antibiotics. Vets investigating the area and that present at conferences support the use if human probiotics in cats, and at the much higher doses than cat probiotics. The "give animal specific strains" is hogwash. There are exactly five studies attempting to identify the natural bacteria in cat huts - it is nascent research, and they really have no clue yet. Acidophilus and bifidus strains were found, and we at least have one study indicating cats benefit from acidophilus as we do.

In the meantime, to help stop the antibiotic-induced diarrhea, use S boulardii. You can buy Florastor at Costco or Walmart. Give 1/2 capsule 2x a day mixed into a bit of Beech Nut baby food. This is a yeast-based probiotic, a close cousin of Brewer's Yeast. It is actually the most researched probiotic there is, and it is used by UC Davis in cats to treat antibiotic-resistant C diff. It is used in many hospitals to treat antibiotic-induced diarrhea. It is not metabolized, but passes undigested into the intestines where it works locally in the lumen. It helps restore normal function, and creates an environment where the healthy bacteria can thrive. It also reduces inflammation. Unlike the strains in the Renew Life, it does not populate the gut, and will be out of her system completely within 36 hours of stopping it.

Health food stores often carry Renew Life probiotics and Jarrow brand S boulardii with MOS. This can also be used instead of the Florastor."
I'd just add that Gerber stage 2 meat types (baby foods) are now the go-to for this type of thing with cats (or for inappetent cats)

I would also be adding some plain pumpkin (not pie filling) into her wet food. Pumpkin is the most marvelous regulator, working either to firm up watery stool or soften otherwise hard dry stool. Here' a trusted reference (the entire site should be a must-read pre-req for anyone with cats!): Feline Constipation.org - Prevention - Fiber

As for what started all this, a short note to self, Ria: most of the out-of-the-blue 'cat colds' are viral in nature, so antibiotics are useless. You might want to consider symptomatic relief in future....reliable backgrounder and simple treatments here: Harpsie.com - Cat Flu.
Quote:
She was sneezing, had eye & nose discharge.
Those are textbook examples of a herpesvirus outbreak. Look for the L-lysine reference in there, it's well-known to manage these.


I'm very curious.....what is this anti-diarrheal drug they are suggesting?

Hope this helps!
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Old March 18th, 2019, 11:08 AM
Ria Ria is offline
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Thank you so much for your response! I will be trying out your suggestions.

The medication that was suggested if the diarrhea hadnít improved by this past Sunday was Tylosin I believe. Iím not a 100% sure though as I didnít write it down nor have I picked it up. We are all hesitant (the vet as well) to give her more medications considering her severe reaction. Iíd much rather use a more natural method that is less likely to cause a severe allergic reaction.

Sheís eating and playing and just being a typical kitten.

I should add that we did have her stool tested and it came back negative for parasites. Sheís also FIV & FeLV negative.
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Old March 18th, 2019, 12:06 PM
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Aw, that poor baby. I'm a big fan of probiotics, as well. We give our kitty both L. acidophilis and S. boulardii as needed. The S. boulardii seems particularly effective in clearing up diarrhea
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Old March 18th, 2019, 01:00 PM
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Well, just judging based on the short history of what she's been given over "the last couple of months" and her reactions, it seems to me that the obvious diagnosis would seem to be that she simply no longer has the intestinal bacteria needed to properly digest what she eats. If she had had diarrhea prior to the first antibiotic, then, perhaps there might (should) have been a question about some nasty bacteria at play in her gut (I'm not talking parasites here). Often enough we need to go past the basic 'first level' testing of stool.

So, now you have a specific probiotic plus the S boulardii ("Saccharomyces boulardii") to try...with the obvious 'disclaimer' that you (at least) get your Vet's opinion as well. And, remember to add in some pumpkin because (and, this is a lesson from that website) not only do you have to feed your cat, you also need to feed your cat's gut bacteria. (while Fortiflora often just doesn't 'cut it' as a probiotic, it can be useful with some cats as an appetite stimulant because of its taste...so, don't throw it away)

Here's a reputable reference for Tylosin: VeterinaryPartner.com - Tylosin. A careful read of that will probably ease any fear of using it with her should it be suggested down the road. You should know, though, that it's horrid-tasting and that knowledgeable folks will have it put into tiny gelcaps.

So, keep us posted............and, of course, we would never refuse any quantity of pictures
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Old March 18th, 2019, 05:23 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Poor kitty I hope she will get better fast . Is she drinking enough water with her
Diarrhea?
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Old March 18th, 2019, 07:31 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Aw, that poor baby. I'm a big fan of probiotics, as well. We give our kitty both L. acidophilis and S. boulardii as needed. The S. boulardii seems particularly effective in clearing up diarrhea
Iím glad to hear that it works. Iíll definitely be looking into it. The Forti Flora just doesnít really seem to cut it.
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Old March 18th, 2019, 07:50 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTYcat View Post
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Well, just judging based on the short history of what she's been given over "the last couple of months" and her reactions, it seems to me that the obvious diagnosis would seem to be that she simply no longer has the intestinal bacteria needed to properly digest what she eats. If she had had diarrhea prior to the first antibiotic, then, perhaps there might (should) have been a question about some nasty bacteria at play in her gut (I'm not talking parasites here). Often enough we need to go past the basic 'first level' testing of stool.
Thatís what we are thinking too. The vet still wanted to double check her stool just in case. I was feeling desperate and thought might as well check to be sure. I wasnít surprised when it came back negative. She also mentioned possibly doing a PCR test but Iím not sure thatís necessary. Sheís been on antibiotics for so long that Iím pretty sure itís causing her diarrhea. The soft stool started when she started the antibiotics. She had normal stool for a couple of days exactly a week after stopping the clavamox & before starting the other 2 antibiotics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTYcat View Post
So, now you have a specific probiotic plus the S boulardii ("Saccharomyces boulardii") to try...with the obvious 'disclaimer' that you (at least) get your Vet's opinion as well. And, remember to add in some pumpkin because (and, this is a lesson from that website) not only do you have to feed your cat, you also need to feed your cat's gut bacteria. (while Fortiflora often just doesn't 'cut it' as a probiotic, it can be useful with some cats as an appetite stimulant because of its taste...so, don't throw it away)
She actually doesnít like the Fortiflora lol but eats it as long as itís well mixed with some chunks & lots of gravy. We started the pumpkin today & she seems to really like it!

Before trying anything else Iíll definitely run it by her vet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSTYcat View Post
Here's a reputable reference for Tylosin: VeterinaryPartner.com - Tylosin. A careful read of that will probably ease any fear of using it with her should it be suggested down the road. You should know, though, that it's horrid-tasting and that knowledgeable folks will have it put into tiny gelcaps.

So, keep us posted............and, of course, we would never refuse any quantity of pictures
.
Thanks for the link. Iíll be checking it out.

I will definitely keep everyone posted and will look for a pic to share.
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Old March 18th, 2019, 07:53 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkingdog View Post
Poor kitty I hope she will get better fast . Is she drinking enough water with her
Diarrhea?
We were really worried about her possibly becoming dehydrated. She does drink quite a bit of water & is eating wet canned food. Sheís been at the vetís office weekly for follow ups since this has happened & luckily sheís still pretty well hydrated.
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Old March 19th, 2019, 02:49 PM
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Your situation brings back memories of having gone through similar problems caused from over prescribing of antibiotics to our late Missy. The information that you have received from this web site took me several years to accumulate.

Hopefully this is going to work for your kitty.

I think you have received some good advice from Rustycat and Hazel.

Just a couple of things that i think might be of help. One is down the line to start introducing kitty to 5 to 10 gms of raw meat as a treat or mixed in the meal, to help get more into species specific food. This will help the gut.

Maybe somewhere down the line you might contemplate getting her onto a species appropriate diet.

Something I found out years ago, that I wish I had followed up on, was Fecal Transplant. I had 2 customers about 5 years apart in 2 different communities who had pups with Parvo Virus. They were Indigenous ladies who were very devastated by the issue and the cost of vet fees. They went this route on their own and had fantastic success and within 24 to 48 hours the issue was all cleared up. I'm not recommending doing this on your own, but I am thinking I would be passing it by your vet if she's open minded.

I'm enclosing a couple of web sites to have a look at so you can draw your own conclusion. Had I done the research when I found out about the Fecal Transplants, it could have been an altogether better outlook for Missy.


https://healthypets.mercola.com/site..._rid=481965611

https://www.animalbiome.com/


If things are not working out the way you're wanting, maybe this would be another area to contemplate
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Old March 19th, 2019, 08:39 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Thank you Reg for your reply. Iím hoping now that sheís been off all antibiotics for 9 days that her system will start to recover. She is still on pred & atopica but is being weaned off the atopica. Her last dose should be on Friday & we will then start weaning her off the pred. Weíre going to let her fully recover before changing anything in her routine. She still has scabs & her hair is still falling off but sheís healing & has come a long way. Her hair is starting to grow back.

Here is a picture of Cora before all this happened. Itís hard to get her to sit still for a picture, sheís usually running around or getting up close with the lens of the camera lol. Sheís named Cora, short for CoraÁ„o, which means heart in Portuguese due to the heart shaped marking on her chest.
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Old March 19th, 2019, 09:33 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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OMG ! What a gorgeous cat !😍that good
she drinking enough . I hope she will have a speedy recovery
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Old March 19th, 2019, 10:32 PM
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Cora is a very pleasant looking girl......something to be proud of.

It's best to take your time.........she is quite likely very stressed out with all that has been happening to her for the past months.

If you have it, perhaps putting a few drops of Rescue Remedy in her drinking water will help as well, with no side effects and no interaction with meds. Check it out. We'll be rooting for a speedy recovery.
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Old March 20th, 2019, 10:31 AM
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She's gorgeous, Ria! I see her heart's in the right place... Sorry, I couldn't resist! But I do think that's the most adorable heart I've seen anywhere!
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Old June 7th, 2019, 08:37 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Update...

I thought Iíd come on here & provide an update on Cora. Itís been a long road for her and us. The Tylosin didnít work. Neither did new probiotics nor another medication commonly used to treat diarrhea, metronidazole. We even tried a fecal transplant but that too didnít work. A new diet didnít seem to help either. Despite a voracious appetite, Cora continued to have diarrhea and was, is, losing weight, not good for an already small & thin kitten. We were referred to an internist who ran a slew of tests, including a GI endoscopy & biopsy. We recently got her test results back & she has been diagnosed with irritable bowel disease, quite severe actually. She was also quite low on B12 & is receiving weekly injections. She is now on a high dose of prednisolone & we are in the process of trying to find a new diet that she will like & eat. Cora doesnít particularly like pate food & prefers to eat minced, flaked or chunks. Iím having a really hard time finding something that she will like. Iím considering making her a homemade diet but am also having a hard time finding a recipe. Iím open to any food recommendations people may have! Iím very worried that if we are unable to get this under control that she will just fade away.

I suspect her ibd is due to all the medication she has been on and also due to her original drug reaction as she had never had diarrhea before.
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Old June 8th, 2019, 11:17 AM
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Oh, that poor little girl!

Are you on facebook at all? There is a group there that I joined when JD had some difficulties and the suggestions were very helpful. There are also a lot of documents posted on the page with dietary and supplement guides. It's called Raw Feeding for IBD Cats. It might give you some new ideas and certainly a lot of information. The members are very knowledgeable and helpful.
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"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
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Old June 8th, 2019, 02:54 PM
Ria Ria is offline
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Oh, that poor little girl!

Are you on facebook at all? There is a group there that I joined when JD had some difficulties and the suggestions were very helpful. There are also a lot of documents posted on the page with dietary and supplement guides. It's called Raw Feeding for IBD Cats. It might give you some new ideas and certainly a lot of information. The members are very knowledgeable and helpful.
Yes, Iím on Facebook. Thank you for the suggestion, I have found & joined the group. Iíll review their documents then will ask for some help. I really need Cora to get back on track, she canít afford to lose any more weight. Iím hoping the pred works quickly but I know I have to get her on much better, higher quality food to help her heal quicker.
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Old June 9th, 2019, 02:30 PM
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Hello Ria:

Sorry to hear that your problems are still ongoing.

It reminds me so much of our Missy episode.

I went into the site on Facebook that HRP suggested. It looked like it could be a very good site for discussing problems and remedies. I joined it as well.

I think your comment about getting off the medications is a good one. They have a tendency of damaging the immune system big time.......and especially the microbiome of the gut.

Here are a couple of web sites that I use for home made diets.

https://www.holisticat.com/index.php/en/

www.catinfo.org

On Catinfo.org there are some good articles to research on the side bar...... Making Cat Food........ Dr. Pierson has gone into great lengths in discussing the methods of prep......under Feline Health she has an article on vaccines, long acting antibiotics and a good one on pilling cats and dogs.

Holisticats has a good section on food prep. I use both web sites for this.

Hope these sites will give you some information you are looking for. Do keep us informed.

When you are working with this, keep in mind food allergies. They can throw a mean curve as well.
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Last edited by Reg; June 9th, 2019 at 03:24 PM.
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