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Old November 1st, 2005, 08:41 AM
Snooky'sMom Snooky'sMom is offline
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Persian doesn't like being brushed out

I got a Persian from a shelter a week and a half ago. He's four years old and all full of matts. I've tried my best trying to shave some of them out and working slowly at others but the problem is he hates being brushed out. Even when I gently brush a spot on him that's not matted. It seems this cat was never used to brushing. He becomes quite angry at me and starts acting defensively. At those times I lay off but I'm becoming frustrated because more matts are building up while I can't even get rid of the old ones. He really needs a bath too as he still has a smell to him but I don't want to bath him until he's comfortable with grooming (which could take forever!!). I really hate to take him to a professional groomer because I know with cats they give them anesthesia. However, it just might be the best solution to initiallty get rid of all the matts.

He also loves getting outside and I made the mistake of letting him outside after he got here. Now I'm having to let him out 3 or 4 times a day (supervised outings). Sometimes my schedule doesn't always allow that and when he doesn't get out he cries forever. The shelter he was in had a fully enclosed cat run so he could come and go when he pleased. I'm thinking that he doesn't yet think of this place as home and that's why he likes getting outside so much. It's my hope that he will eventually think of this place as home and will want to stay in more as time goes on (Winter is coming too which is an added incentive.) On a good note , once he's been outside half an hour he comes quite easily when called. What a sweetie. He likes walking on a leash too.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 08:34 PM
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L'il Frankie L'il Frankie is offline
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Our cat got matted up after I gave her a bath, and didn't comb her out properly. We took her to Puppy Luv in Toronto's west end, and they gave her the "lion cut" with no anesthesia. She looked silly for about a month, but she liked the shorter cut, although her hair has grown in a bit darker.

How did your cat take to a leash? I'd like to take Frankie outside for some fun in the sun without worrying about her running off.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 10:31 PM
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gottahavepets gottahavepets is offline
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Lucas also hates to be groomed, I finally took himin to a groomer and had him shaved, the lion of course. Once his hair was short and all the mats were gone I've started trying to get him used to feeling some brushing, gentle non-threatening and lots of rewards after and during. He's responding slowly. I had to do the same thing with petting about a month after we took him in. He was a really friendly cat but he could only take about three pets and he would attack. It took about 6 months to get him up to twenty minutes of petting. Now he comes for cuddles whenever anyone sits down with or without a blanket and he'll take hours of petting now. Keep it gentle, non-threatening and be very patient, I'm sure you'll be rewarded for your efforts.
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Old November 4th, 2005, 10:08 AM
Snooky'sMom Snooky'sMom is offline
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Thanks for the info. I hadn't considered the lion cut. It might be the best solution but I'm going to hold off for now, just because he loves to get outside. If he's shaved it'll be too cold for him and right now he's enjoying seeing all the squirrels.

As for him walking on a leash, I can't take credit for that. When I adopted him he came with his own leash from his previous family. He was really easy to put the leash on and obviously is very used to it. He doesn't walk like a dog though. He still investigates stuff outside and tells me where he wants to go- not the other way around.
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Old November 4th, 2005, 02:49 PM
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Both YY and my foster Sphynx Girls love going out with their leashes and will even run around the house in their harnesses if I don't take them off fast enough! The Sphnx go out less tho since with no hair, they only go out with sweaters on.

You have to start when they are kittens so they can become used to it. They just think it's normal then. With an adult, it is harder but can be done if they associate the leash and harness with good things!
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Old November 29th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Zues is my baby Zues is my baby is offline
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My Nymbis which is a bobcat mattes like crazy especially in the winter. She is very mean when it comes to grooming too, what we do is one person puts on really thick gloves and the other does the shaving. Which we are enclosed in the bathroom so we can do everything at once. She dosen't like it very much but when it's all done she is very happy. To maintain her matts sometimes we just cut the dreadlock out with siccors. We only gove her the works 2x a year. Sometimes you just have to pin them down and do it. They will thank you in the end
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Old December 5th, 2005, 12:07 PM
Snooky'sMom Snooky'sMom is offline
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[QUOTE=Sometimes you just have to pin them down and do it. They will thank you in the end[/QUOTE]

Well, when it's a new cat from a shelter with agression that I'm trying to eliminate it might not be such a good idea to hold him down forcibly. I have no problem doing his daily grooming once he finds it enjoyable but it's just getting him used to it. I'm still debating about doing the shaving thing. He loves to get outside so much and with -5C temp, he won't be able to if he's shaved. Tough choice.
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Old December 7th, 2005, 12:21 AM
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gottahavepets gottahavepets is offline
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How is it going with the brushing? This afternoon Lucas let me brush his back for a bit and really seemed to enjoy it! I also kept returning to his head as it is his favorite place to be brushed, and until today the only place he would allow it.
Patience will pay off. Holding them down can make it a scary thing, not a good thing. Trim the mats as best as you can so they don't restrict movement and wait for the spring to do the shave. It has gotten really cold here lately and Lucas is finally starting to look normal again! He was so cold before that he slept with me every night! Usually he would spend the night elsewhere in the house then cuddle in the morning before feeding time. Now he spends more time away again, I miss him at night. Cera, my Tortie has always loved to be brushed and also always sleeps with me. We started her as a kitten, which is the ideal. If only everyone thought so. Then these poor cats wouldn't be afraid of the brush!
Keep us posted with how it goes and what you're doing. There are probably many other's out there with the same problem.
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Old January 29th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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Mareva Mareva is offline
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patience will pay!

Well, it's been a few months since your first posting so maybe things are better now. My advise is the same than the others: be patient and gentle. I adopted my hymalayan when she was 8 years old from a family where she probably got a few kicks... She was very aggressive and worldn't let me touch her at all first! Eventualy she let me pet her on the top of her head with the back of my hand only (?) about 2 strokes before trying to bite my hand off!!! So cutting her dreadlocks was out of the question! She obviously became one huge walking dreadlock! Although it's not quite pretty, I don't think it's bad for their health so I left her like that. She eventualy took care of the matter herself by biting the locks off... It was terrible seeing all that little pink skin! But with time and patient she eventualy let me brush her. Now when I wake up in the morning first thing I see is my cat wanting to be brushed! Isn't it wonderful! And now she loves to be pet, it's just a matter of giving the cat time to adopt you I think!
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Old January 29th, 2006, 06:37 PM
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Actually, sedation must be administered by a vet, NOT a groomer. Only a vet can properly supervise a sedated pet. That said, I do both sedated and non-sedated cats, as I work at a clinic and a grooming salon. Some cats are fine not being put out for the grooming, we have the owner stay to hold them while they are groomed (at the salon). However, the more agressive cats are better off having the sedation (at the vet clinic), it's actually less stressful for them than screaming and trying to bite for half an hour. It's a light sedation, they are not fully anesthetized, and they start coming to usually in about 15 minutes, but muscle coordination is lacking for another 10 minutes about, so I have time to finish the lion clip peacefully.

It is also not a good idea to wait to have matts shaved off because it's winter, matts do not keep a pet warm, they only foster skin problems and provide an ideal hiding place for parasites. The longer they are left on, the more difficult they will be to clip off and the higher the chance of possible skin conditions and injury to the skin when shaving. I've seen cats so badly matted there was no way I could shave them without injuring them, so I had to refer them to their vet. This is something that should never be put off, the cat can always wear a sweater, and the hair has grown back a fair amount usually in one month, enough for them to go outside for a bit anyways. It generally takes 3 to 4 months to grow back completely, depending on the health of the cat.
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Old January 29th, 2006, 09:32 PM
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Prevention of matts with regular combing is essential with Persians, but in spite of that - they'll still appear from time to time. They need to be dealt with as soon as possible.
A "little" matting left unattended can soon turn into a horrible mess - a big problem for you and kitty both.

Aside from the danger of skin irritations, etc.. the cat will feel miserably uncomfortable - and if severe enough, can even be painful to move around.
As for cutting them out, I know from one upsetting experience how easy it is to cut the cat. Scissors should be used with great caution.. and never if the matt is next to the skin.

The only safe way to remove matts is to gently try to pull them apart - seperate them - and comb through.
If this doesnt work.. a lion cut is in order.

I give one of my two persians a grooming "vacation" a couple of times a year with a lion cut (without sedation) as she is a real challenge to maintain - she hates handlling. Luckily, the other adores being combed.

They do feel a bit cold and bare at first, so should be kept warm indoors.A sweater is good - if they will allow it. Mine wont have any part of any "attire"

In some cases, the stomach is the main problem area - some cats resist combing of this area in particular. If the rest of the coat can be de-matted - a tummy shave is a less drastic option, one I've used a number of times.
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Old January 30th, 2006, 03:07 PM
Snooky'sMom Snooky'sMom is offline
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The situation is not any better than it was a few months ago. Maybe worse. He does like to be patted and rubbed so the problem is not with touching. It's with his brushes and combs. When I bring them out he growls and swats at the combs like they are a weapon. I've been trying to shave out some spots that have been matting up but I can't seem to keep up on it. He's going for a teeth cleaning/polishing in March so I'll have to make a decision by then if he gets a lion cut then or a full grooming. I've also heard another thing about the lion cut that I'm not happy about. It's the exposure to the sun and he loves to get outside. I don't want him getting skin cancer or skin burns from the sun. I've heard also, that the lion cut doesn't keep them cool in summer at all since they don't sweat there. I just started a routine where I'm going to spend some time every day rubbing him and then try again to introduce the comb slowly. He's okay with other grooming things like getting his eyes cleaned, and having his teeth cleaned. It's just that he's learned to associate the comb and brush with pain. He doesn't like it even if I'm combing in a spot that has no matts at all.
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Old January 31st, 2006, 04:37 PM
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You are doing all the right things to make this successful, and all I can suggest is to keep trying with those methods.. You're quite right about the association he's made that this is NOT going to be a good experience..but he gradually may become more accustomed to the routine with lots of tlc.

You have my sympathies.. its a frustrating dilemma.

I do the grooming just a little at a time, and when Miranda is feeling very relaxed, just woke up from a nap.
I hide the comb, just stroke and talk to her gently for some time... then gradually start a bit of combing, more patting, bit more combing.
However, as soon as she gets the "idea" she wants to leave - no treats or sweet talk will change her mind. Holding her to continue only causes her anger and stress - and she also will start attacking the comb...and my hand.

There has been little change in six years.

The matting "has" to be dealt with, so a lion cut is what I opt for as the only feasible solution whenever I see her coat is reaching the "point of no return". As they take about five months to completely grow out..it gives her and I both a nice "reprieve". By the time its completely grown in, it's usually time for another.
These are not uncommon for Persian cats, and I've not heard of issues related to skin cancer or burns. It's only the first 3 or 4 weeks that the fur is "very" short - mabye you could just limit her outdoor time for this period if you are worried about this.

Incidentally, brushes are not the best tools for the Persian coat. A wide-toothed metal comb is reccomended.. and there is also what's called a "greyhound" comb - widely thought to be the best grooming device for removing the loose fur that causes matting. I use the metal comb.

For de-matting - though it sounds rather omminous. a "seam ripper" is another tool that I've heard used - with great care - to cut through the matt, making it easier to seperate with the hands.
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Old January 31st, 2006, 06:38 PM
Snooky'sMom Snooky'sMom is offline
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Thanks for the ideas. I actually haven't been using a brush. I was just refering to it as "brushing". I've been using a few wide tooth metal combs along with a flat one that's supposed to be good for matts. I like the idea of a seam ripper because you would be pulling away from the body with the blade. Not a bad idea.

Actually today, I fell back on something that has worked when I first got him. I dropped this because I wanted him to enjoy his grooming routine but I see now that may never happen. It's sad because my old Himalayan kitty I had who died loved his grooming sessions. He would demand a brush out and if I missed it he would be offended and torture me all night. LOL I can see it's not going to happen with this one. So the thing that worked in the beginning was I would put a bowl of dry cat food down. He would dig into it and I would maybe get a minute or two of gentle brushing while he was eating. That still seems to work. Strange, I know. He growls a little bit but keeps eating.

The plan is I think I will have him shaved totally underneath. I cannot get to those areas but I think using the above routine I can keep the rest of his coat matt free. And since he likes to get outside I'm getting him a super small doggie sweater to wear until he grows some the hair back. I have to admit that part of the reason too for me now wanting him shaved completely is because I just love the beauty of the perian cat. Anyway, I'll see if that works and if not then I'll have him get the full lion cut. He may not look pretty but as everyone says it's a great break from all the brushing out.
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Old February 6th, 2006, 11:53 AM
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gottahavepets gottahavepets is offline
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I have done the same thing with Lucas, he really likes wet food, or fresh treats like a bit of salmon, chicken or beef, he'll totally ignore me until he's had enough, then off he goes with a swing of his tail. LOL! I say if it works don't fix it. I will be doing the lion cut again in the late spring when it is starting to get warmer, then he will have all summer for it to grow out. I also find he doesn't mind the dogs brush as much as he hates the combs. The dog has a wide metal pin brush, the 'pins' have the heads on so they are not sharp, but they seem to do a good job and it doesn't bother him as much, though he doesn't come asking for it like my tortie does.
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