Cities mull forced neutering of pets & Runaway pit bull neutered by SPCA

[luckypenny]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/...533/story.html

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/...602/story.html


I say that if the general public refuses to accept responsibility for the pet overpopulation crisis, then somebody has to. Your thoughts?

[aslan]

i think it's a great idea,,if you look farther down at the comments people made one person hit the nail on the head " the people not wanted to adopt fixed pets are not looking for a pet, but breeding stock".

[luckypenny]

This is the comment in the second article that stuck out for me: "Leslie said an SPCA employee told her "there are too many pit bulls in Verdun, anyway. We have a freezer full of dead pit bulls. Want to see it?" " Bravo to this employee. I'd take the bylaws even further and, for those that dump their pets, if they don't get adopted and end up getting euthanized, the previous owners must pay for and be present for the killing...whether it be by Euthanol or the gas chambers. Take on a animal, then it's your responsibility for life...and death.

[Loki Love]

We actually saw the news report on this on CTV. I actually have mixed feelings on the whole thing. I truly believe that for the average Joe, neutering/spaying is the best option; however, I'm not sure I would want to be in that same situation if they had Loki. What would happen if it's a show dog and therefore a legit reason not to be neutered/spayed? Would they make the exception? I'd be curious to find out.

In this particular case, I was quite happy they neutered the dog. The owners apparently loved their dog so much and loved his temperament that they were thinking of breeding him...

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by Loki Love

What would happen if it's a show dog and therefore a legit reason not to be neutered/spayed? Would they make the exception? I'd be curious to find out.

As would I. I have a feeling that if the dogs' guardians had valid proof, then an exception would likely be made. I'm assuming that because this dog was neutered after his guardians found him at the shelter.

[Loki Love]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

As would I. I have a feeling that if the dogs' guardians had valid proof, then an exception would likely be made. I'm assuming that because this dog was neutered after his guardians found him at the shelter.

Really? From the news report it sounded like the guardians went to pick up their dog and the shelter wouldn't release him until they neutered him..?

[Chris21711]

Something has to be done to control pet over-population....if peeps won't take it upon themselves to help the problem, then there is no alternative. It would be nice if the Veterinary Associates would help too, without gouging people.....It takes 10 minutes to neuter a male dog...how much should a Vet charge in all reality?

It takes the rights of citizens away to do as they wish with their "property", but something has got to be done to stop the killing.

As far as the Pittie is concerned....no question that it had to be done.....These poor dogs are being so victimized it's a sin.....it's the only way to stop the killing

In the case of the lady who can't locate her dogs spay certificate, if it was done through her Vet then they would/should have a record of it.

[luckypenny]

I think I worded that wrong . They did neuter after the guardians found him and the staff had a chance to speak to them. It makes sense to me that they would have waited to speak to the guardians before taking the decision to neuter. I do know that the shelter can't be held responsible because it's in the city bylaws and the contract b/n the shelter and the cities. It's up to citizens to inform themselves of all laws pertaining to pet guardianship .

[doggy lover]

I heard somewhere that Toronto was gonna drop its licence fee, don't know if this is true or not, but instead of that why not make it mandatory that your pet is fixed and then give owners free licensing. Scarborough use to have if your pet was fixed and micro chipped it was a life time license but then amalgamation and that ended. But I think they should enforce this even my beautiful boy was fixed at 6 months.

[Loki Love]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

I think I worded that wrong . They did neuter after the guardians found him and the staff had a chance to speak to them. It makes sense to me that they would have waited to speak to the guardians before taking the decision to neuter. I do know that the shelter can't be held responsible because it's in the city bylaws and the contract b/n the shelter and the cities. It's up to citizens to inform themselves of all laws pertaining to pet guardianship .

Makes sense

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by doggy lover

I heard somewhere that Toronto was gonna drop its licence fee,

I read that in the Star last week Doggy Lover.

[luckypenny]

Doggy lover, in the town I live in, we register our dogs one time for life. And if the dog is neutered, it's free.

I think the aim of these bylaws are to reduce the number of unwanted pets and irresponsible breeding. I fully support it.

[cell]

I loved the quote ""If you lose your dog you lose the right to own an unfixed dog," So true, I totally agree. I think the only exception should be made for registered showing/breeding dogs, which are few and far between. Someone who owns a dog like this is very unlikely to loose it, and have it stay lost long enough that it goes through the motions in the shelter system to the point where it is neutered.
Montreal needs help bad (well Quebec in general) animals really are seen like a product, and the value of worth is in reproductive value, essentially an animal is worth as much as it can make you.
Everyone look on MTL KIJIJI and look at the dog adds and see how many advertise "not operated" "has had litters of X amount" "good for breeding" it is around +80% of the adds. It's truly sad.
Moving day is the worst because so many places don't allow pets, again because of the irresponsible owners who let their animals trash the place or bark their faces off. So when moving day comes thousands get cast out and flood the shelters which are already packed. Less adoptable are the first to get the needles, which are usually the big dogs and pit bulls especially.

[rainbow]

Originally Posted by Chris21711

Something has to be done to control pet over-population....if peeps won't take it upon themselves to help the problem, then there is no alternative. It would be nice if the Veterinary Associates would help too, without gouging people.....It takes 10 minutes to neuter a male dog...how much should a Vet charge in all reality?

I agree .....if all vet clinics in all provinces and citites/towns would have reasonable charges for spaying/neutering pets then it would help considerably.

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Doggy lover, in the town I live in, we register our dogs one time for life. And if the dog is neutered, it's free.

I think the aim of these bylaws are to reduce the number of unwanted pets and irresponsible breeding. I fully support it.

That is a good idea as well. I live outside of a small town's "city limits" and no one out here is required to license their pets. It's great for those of us that are responsible pet owners but I honestly don't agree with it as so many others aren't.

[Amarain]

This practice is not in the bylaw of the burroughs (I wish it had been), it is rather part of the service agreement between the burrough and the Montreal SPCA. Therefore the citizens were not aware of this as the contracts were not made public.

[Criosphynx]

I may be mistaken, but I believe this has been implemented in california already, except its for repeat offenders, I think you get one "freebie" where you just pay your impound fee, but the second time the animal will be altered or it wont leave...

at least that was my impression, I didn't pay that much attention as I don't plan on having my animals show up in a shelter...

personally, I like the idea of altering animals before they can go home, baring medical issues of course. We have freezers full of pit bulls here too. I can't imagine a shelter that doesn't.

[Goldfields]

After reading those articles, and especially this...

"If you lose your dog you lose the right to own an unfixed dog," Devine said. "Montreal has a pet overpopulation problem. It has to be dealt with."

.....I hope everyone with show dogs packs up and gets them out of Montreal. One thing is for sure, if they did you would find that Montreal still has the same problem. Loki Love, why don't you find out if they would release shows dog intact?

[Loki Love]

Originally Posted by Goldfields

After reading those articles, and especially this...

"If you lose your dog you lose the right to own an unfixed dog," Devine said. "Montreal has a pet overpopulation problem. It has to be dealt with."

.....I hope everyone with show dogs packs up and gets them out of Montreal. One thing is for sure, if they did you would find that Montreal still has the same problem. Loki Love, why don't you find out if they would release shows dog intact?

I've just sent off an email to Ms Devine - I'll let you know what I find out

[Rgeurts]

I agree for the most part. Like a few others have said, they should first make sure there are no extenuating circumstances. A great example is Nanook. He can't be neutered. I would hope if they know it isn't a stray, they would allow the owner to make a case prior to just sterilizing, otherwise, they'd have a lawsuit on their hands for his $17,000+ in medical bills if he didn't make it through the surgery.

[Love4himies]

Great law , show dog or not, policy is to spay/neuter, then no dogs should be excepted period. That is discrimination, just like a pit bull ban.

If you don't want your dog spayed/neutered, then I guess people should make darn sure they don't loose their dog.

[BenMax]

The SPCA does not alter an animal until the animal is re-claimed. If the dog or cat went unclaimed for X days, passes evaluation for adoption, and then is placed in adoption, they will alter the dog or cat as he/she is now the property of the animal even if re-claimed after the fact.

As for show dogs getting lost and re-claimed...to be honest, I have yet to hear of something like this ever happening. But in my opinion, what is good for one, is good for another. With the present over population as it is, I just wish EVERYONE would take a darn break from breeding. So yes, pack up and leave Quebec if you must...tood-a-loo we don't need you..show dog and all!

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by BenMax

With the present over population as it is, I just wish EVERYONE would take a darn break from breeding. So yes, pack up and leave Quebec if you must...tood-a-loo we don't need you..show dog and all!

I love you, girl

[BenMax]

L4H...I thought I was going to get hammered with my comment...and frankly I will stand by it. I am sick and tired of getting calls from people, in re-homing their pets. I am sick of my weekends be ruined completely because someone wants an animal out NOW. It saddens me terribly to be able to only help a few each week. I am ill literally, seeing all those that I cannot help being euthanized.

As for dogs that were sold from breeders....well I have to tell you that not ALL breeders take their dogs back. I currently have one right now that the breeder said she was too busy with others to take this one back. Sickening!

[Loki Love]

Originally Posted by BenMax

But in my opinion, what is good for one, is good for another. With the present over population as it is, I just wish EVERYONE would take a darn break from breeding. So yes, pack up and leave Quebec if you must...tood-a-loo we don't need you..show dog and all!

Seriously?

With all due respect - I AM a member here, and I do own a show dog.

[Goldfields]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

If you don't want your dog spayed/neutered, then I guess people should make darn sure they don't loose their dog.

We often have dogs escape at airports here. They might be very expensive imports, or females just mated, show dogs etc., and it's usually the fault of baggage handlers that they get loose. Others get a fright and manage to escape at shows, it might be because they are with a pro handler, not their owner. So while you can make light of it, the truth is that such owners are not careless enough to simply lose their dog. Accidents happen. Oh, and searches for these runaways are major events, when a friend's sheltie took off for instance about 2,000 flyers were put in letter boxes and people searched the streets for more than a week before they got a call to tell them where he was hiding.

BenMax, for you to say this

But in my opinion, what is good for one, is good for another.

it shows you don't care about the time, effort and money it might take a breeder/exhibitor to get a top show dog, and if you are at a stage where you think there should be no exceptions, maybe it's time you had a break? Don't forget that that desexed show dog is now useless to the show exhibitor, therefore it becomes yet another dog that needs rehoming.
I'd reckon it's puppy farmers that cause so much grief anyway, certainly not responsible breeder/exhibitors.

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by Loki Love

What would happen if it's a show dog and therefore a legit reason not to be neutered/spayed?

Originally Posted by Rgeurts

I agree for the most part. Like a few others have said, they should first make sure there are no extenuating circumstances. A great example is Nanook. He can't be neutered. I would hope if they know it isn't a stray, they would allow the owner to make a case prior to just sterilizing, otherwise, they'd have a lawsuit on their hands for his $17,000+ in medical bills if he didn't make it through the surgery.

I would think it's for reasons such as these that, as in the second article, the SPCA only went through with the neuter after a certain delay, giving guardians ample time to locate their dog and to provide an explanation. I don't believe they spay/neuter as soon as a stray pet arrives.

Originally Posted by Criosphynx

I may be mistaken, but I believe this has been implemented in california already, except its for repeat offenders, I think you get one "freebie" where you just pay your impound fee, but the second time the animal will be altered or it wont leave...

Although I think this is better than no policy at all, it still means that an unneutered pet has two chances to create an unwanted litter. Just 5 strays per week can mean 5 accidental breedings, 5 unwanted litters...whose chances are pretty good to end up at a pound/shelter/dead. Just in our little town of +- 6000 residents, I've had 3 unneutered males, 1 unspayed female, and 1 puppy show up on our property in the last two years, I can just imagine what it's like in the large cities.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Goldfields

We often have dogs escape at airports here. They might be very expensive imports, or females just mated, show dogs etc., and it's usually the fault of baggage handlers that they get loose. Others get a fright and manage to escape at shows, it might be because they are with a pro handler, not their owner. So while you can make light of it, the truth is that such owners are not careless enough to simply lose their dog. Accidents happen. Oh, and searches for these runaways are major events, when a friend's sheltie took off for instance about 2,000 flyers were put in letter boxes and people searched the streets for more than a week before they got a call to tell them where he was hiding.

BenMax, for you to say this

But in my opinion, what is good for one, is good for another.

it shows you don't care about the time, effort and money it might take a breeder/exhibitor to get a top show dog, and if you are at a stage where you think there should be no exceptions, maybe it's time you had a break? Don't forget that that desexed show dog is now useless to the show exhibitor, therefore it becomes yet another dog that needs rehoming.
I'd reckon it's puppy farmers that cause so much grief anyway, certainly not responsible breeder/exhibitors.

I guess you could say breeders don't care about the time and effort that goes into saving the lives of their dogs/cats once the owner gets bored with them. BenMax gives up her WHOLE LIFE to save dogs and cats' lives.

As for the issue of the airport and prof handlers, then the dog owners fight is with the airport and handler, not the SPCA, they are not the ones who screwed up.

[Rgeurts]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

Great law , show dog or not, policy is to spay/neuter, then no dogs should be excepted period. That is discrimination, just like a pit bull ban.

If you don't want your dog spayed/neutered, then I guess people should make darn sure they don't loose their dog.

I understand how important spaying/neutering is. But to say that there should be NO exceptions is just not right imo. I take very good care of my boys, both of them. But... lets say he escaped from daycare (which happened a few times at the old daycare. Fortunately Nanook wasn't one of them). Nanook cannot go under for surgery of any kind. If he does, it could kill him. There is a high chance the meningoencephalitis will relapse and he has a high chance of getting an infection because he has a compromised immune system. We have spent over $17,000 trying to keep him alive and get him well. We have spent countless hours taking caring of him, loving and worrying over him. Not to mention all the time I have had to take off work to make sure he is taken care of. So I do not agree that there should be NO exceptions.

Originally Posted by Goldfields

I'd reckon it's puppy farmers that cause so much grief anyway, certainly not responsible breeder/exhibitors.

Responsible pet owners in general. Accidents happen and pets sometimes get away no matter how well you take care of them.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Loki Love

Seriously?

With all due respect - I AM a member here, and I do own a show dog.

I never said that my words would be popular. I apologize for that however it is my simple uneducated opinion. Sorry it does not appease everyone and I humble ask that we agree to disagree.

No feelings are meant to be hurt. It is just my reality that dicates my sincere feelings on this subject which is off topic really.

[BenMax]

[QUOTE=Goldfields;979189]

it shows you don't care about the time, effort and money it might take a breeder/exhibitor to get a top show dog, and if you are at a stage where you think there should be no exceptions, maybe it's time you had a break? QUOTE]

That is one heavy statement Goldfields...take a break! LOL - that would be ideal now wouldn't it.

I refuse to put my head in the sand which therefore does not give me the right to take a break. Though it would be very well deserved I can assure you.