Stop Pit Bull Ban in Ontario - Page 7 - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans

Lucky Rescue · #**181** October 4th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Since BTPB refuses to answer any questions concerning his/her dog, or provide any details about the supposed "attack" on the child, OR to take into consideration or respond to any facts concerning breed traits or BSL, but merely continues to spout media hype further discussion is futile. Thread locked.

heeler's rock! · #**182** October 4th, 2004, 05:47 PM

Since Lucky was kind enough to open this thread again, I am making a conscious effort to ignore ignorant, close minded individuals on here, and only discuss anti-BSL issues. Anybody with pro-BSL views is more than welcome to post their thoughts here, but please, do your research, and be considerate. Many of the members here own pits and they are family members, so please try and use tact when posting. We are all trying to come up with solutions to BSL and anyone with valid pro-BSL facts is more than welcome here. If you are unsure of your stance on this matter, we are all willing to answer any questions you may have.

BTPB, you keep ignoring the facts we present to you and you fail to answer our questions about your own so-called experiences with pits. Therefore, I am not willing to read anymore of your garbage. I hope others will do the same and just ignore you completely in hopes that you will go away as you have no place among animal lovers.

BANTHEPITBULL · #**183** October 4th, 2004, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyRescue

Since BTPB refuses to answer any questions concerning his/her dog, or provide any details about the supposed "attack" on the child, OR to take into consideration or respond to any facts concerning breed traits or BSL, but merely continues to spout media hype further discussion is futile. Thread locked.

-> don't intend to give out any personal info, including info about my dog...as I intend to be active in supporting the BSL...simply not in my interest and neither relevant to the discussion. An off-leash pitbull did lunge towards my dog, but I was lucky enough to pick him up and run away. the breed of my dog is simply irrelevant.

-> the 'supposed attack', well, if an adult pitbull is on the loose and enters someone else's backyard and grabs a child's jacket in it's jaws.....that is an attack for me- left, right and center.

-> have also been threatened by some kid pointing 2 pitbulls at me; have heard reports of seniors being forced to walk fast by group of thugs with pitbulls in the downtown Toronto area. Laugh your heart out.

-> I am yet to come across a single person who opposes a ban on pitbulls (and i've talked to a lot of people about it..including vets), offline of course.

-> I have based my opinion on supporting BSL based on : personal experience, numerous stories in media since July 2004 about people being almost killed and other small pets being mauled and killed by pitbulls, the fact that pitbulls are banned in many communities and countries around the world.

-> BSL doesn't necessarily mean killing all pitbulls in sight, however that would be a last option for the govt if the alarming rise in serious pitbull attacks continues. McGuinty is on record saying that simply won't happen. For me, BSL is a confirmation that pitbulls aren't fitting in the society and need to be gradually phased out- with emphasis being on absolutely banning breeding/sale/purchase of puppies and on preventing another serious attack by existing pitbulls. Trust me, even if it will take millions of dollars the govt would still do it, coz there is enough public outrage on the issue. What many of you so-called pet lovers don't realise is that pitbull is also the most abused and abandoned breed, and controlling their population from the outset is a more humane thing to do.

-> You cannot prove otherwise by referring me to some website with some stats. The only way that will happen is when my personal experience changes and when I stop seeing people with torn faces on the cover of newspapers.

BANTHEPITBULL · #**184** October 4th, 2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammiec

This saddens me to read this. What do you classify as a "responsible pit bull owner"? I am very interested. Please enlighten us. I myself have met a few "responsible" pit bull owners. How does a "responsible" pit bull owner differ from a "regular" dog owner?

"responsible pitbull owner":

(all references are to an adult, full-sized pitbull)

-> don't leave unattended, in public.

-> don't let kids walk it.

-> if you've got 2 pitbulls, don't walk both of them at the same time.

-> don't let your dog run off-leash, unless it's a park designated as such.

-> understand the fact that many people are probably concerned after reading about so many serious attacks by pitbulls in the newspapers..so just be SENSIBLE, don't try and make your dog look as mean as possible with one of those bad-ass collars.

-> spread the word, because you don't want few idiots to ruin the party for you

-> report offenders to the authorities.

-> maybe form some group...promote responsible pitbull ownership, try and be self-regulating

moontamara · #**185** October 5th, 2004, 12:54 AM

That post actually seemed about right to me -- however, I'm 100% sure that the regulars on this board who own pit bulls fit that description perfectly. I honestly think that BTPB doesn't realize he's not dealing with the stereotypical pit bull owner here. BTPB, have you read any other threads on this board? I hope you'll consider searching through, and seeing that the people you're talking to here are probably some of the most responsible dog owners you'll ever know.

chico2 · #**186** October 5th, 2004, 07:56 AM

BTPB,I agree with your second post,as do all pit-bull owners here,I am sure..but those guidelines would include just about any dogs.
My son has a little JR,he lets her loose in dog-parks all the time and he is very proud of his little dog nipping at larger dogs,boy,is she brave!!(his attitude,not mine!!)I am just hoping that she will not one day pay the price for my sons stupidity

LavenderRott · #**187** October 5th, 2004, 08:00 AM

-> have also been threatened by some kid pointing 2 pitbulls at me; have heard reports of seniors being forced to walk fast by group of thugs with pitbulls in the downtown Toronto area. Laugh your heart out.

Don't you think something should be done about the thug holding the leash? Don't you think if they ban pit bulls those thugs will go out and get a different type of dog or a gun?

-> I have based my opinion on supporting BSL based on : personal experience, numerous stories in media since July 2004 about people being almost killed and other small pets being mauled and killed by pitbulls, the fact that pitbulls are banned in many communities and countries around the world.

Why is it you are so willing to believe the media? Many times the "pit bulls" in the stories are misidentified and the true breed of the dog is determined later. You sure don't see the press correcting those mistakes on page one, do you.

You know what, I am tired of trying to teach you anything. I have a screaming headache and you are making it much worse.

I live in a small community and if I based all of my decisions on the things that happen in my little community, I would live a very sad life. There is a HUGE world out there. I tend to base my decisions on independant research and every bit of research I have done says that BSL doesn't work. I don't own a pit bull, I have never met a pit bull, I don't want a pit bull. What I want is for every dog owner to be responsible for their dog no matter what breed it is. I want a labrador retreiver owner to be just as responsible if their dog bites someone as a pit bull owner.

sammiec · #**188** October 5th, 2004, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BANTHEPITBULL

"responsible pitbull owner":
(all references are to an adult, full-sized pitbull)
-> don't leave unattended, in public.

I don't do this....

Quote:

-> don't let kids walk it.

or this....

Quote:

-> if you've got 2 pitbulls, don't walk both of them at the same time.

huh, only got one, so I don't do this either...

Quote:

-> don't let your dog run off-leash, unless it's a park designated as such.

as an IRRESPONSIBLE pit bull owner this is the best place for your dog! Do you know that many dog fights occur in an offleash park? Do you know that these places are just a fight waiting to happen? Do you know that these places are just organized chaos with an accident waiting to happen? I DO because I used to take my dog there when she was a puppy. BUt not anymore...

Quote:

-> understand the fact that many people are probably concerned after reading about so many serious attacks by pitbulls in the newspapers..so just be SENSIBLE, don't try and make your dog look as mean as possible with one of those bad-ass collars.

Huh, don't do this either! We are very courteous to strangers walking on the grass instead of the sidewalk, and letting people pass us by while waiting patiently...

Quote:

-> spread the word, because you don't want few idiots to ruin the party for you

not sure what this means.....

Quote:

-> report offenders to the authorities.

I think you're referring to IRRESPONBILE pit bull owners, yet I haven't met one to report....

Quote:

-> maybe form some group...promote responsible pitbull ownership, try and be self-regulating

there are groups already existing like this, and unfortunately that because of people like you. If you didn't believe everything that you read you would see that there are people that do care for these animals, with their whole hearts... you would see that they just love to cuddle and be loved. But that's not what the media whould like you to see.
I encourage you to befriend a pit bull owner. I encourage you to MEET someone that owns a pit bull and ask them how this dog has changed thier lives. Please, at least give it a try.

mastifflover · #**189** October 5th, 2004, 10:09 AM

It bothers me that you are so closed minded and anything anybody says you ignore and keep stating the same things over and over. I agree that you need to be responsible but all dog owners need to be responsible and that is something that I see everyday just because someone has a Lab (example) and they are not normally very aggressive it does not mean that they dont have to have control over their dogs. I see these so called non aggressive dogs go after other dogs and the owners do nothing "Oh he's playing" but if a big dog does the same thing he is vicious. Double standard. SammieC is right off leash parks are in most cases fights waiting to happen because a lot of people cannot control their dogs. Most of the fights in parks where I go the fights are usually started by dogs like JRT (now there is a dog that will bite) and the owners think it is funny the little dog going after the big dog ha ha until the big dog is sick of it and retaliates. Then of course the big dog is to blame. It is the same thing for any breed be it Pit Bull or JRT they need to have responsible owners. Since you feel that you can not tell us anything about yourself or your dog (slightly paranoid) why do you think someone is going to go looking for you are you that important I doubt it. Let me guess you are the owner of a small dog that is not trained properly and you blame everybody else when dogs go after it because they are sick of being attacked by a small dog.

Writing4Fun · #**190** October 5th, 2004, 03:35 PM

BTPB, I would agree with your last post if you had indicated that it applied to all dogs regardless of breed/cross instead of just Pit Bulls.

The point you appear to be missing is that the majority of dog owners do follow these guidelines. The dogs you hear about in the news belong to those thugs you referred to in an earlier post, harassing elderly people and threatening folks with their dogs.

Let's face it. News reports are no longer intended to inform the masses as they perhaps once were originally intended to do. They've now become part of the entertainment industry, driven by ratings and accolades and the almighty dollar that sponsors provide. Look at the Middle-East. How many people live there? Are they all terrorists? No, not by a long shot. Do you ever hear about the regular schmoe who's just trying to live his life? No. You only ever hear about the extremists, the suicide bombers, the criminal element being hunted down by the authorities. Think about that for a while, okay?

pitbulliest · #**191** October 5th, 2004, 04:02 PM

BANTHEPITBULL:
I am absolutely sorry that you have no knowledge of the breed, and are so incredibly guilable that you believe everything you hear in the media. It is absolutely disgusting that Michael Bryant is in fact listening to uneducated people like yourself that have no real experience with this wonderful breed. Your dog was attacked by a pit bull because ITS OWNER was irresponsible. Hence, irresponsible owners need to be targetted here, not the DOGS. YES, pit bulls have been bred to fight other animals, although this is completely different from human aggression. ANY pit bull (or dog for that matter) that is humanely aggressive needs to be evaluated by an animal behaviorist/psychologist immediately. These animals do not fit the breed standard and are most likely unsound dogs. With that being said, this is actually quite rare in pit bulls that are PROPERLY RAISED BY RESPONSIBLE OWNERS.

You are naive my friend, by thinking that BSL will help to solve the problem of irresponsible owners. These so called attacks are happening because the dogs are simply in the wrong hands..PERIOD! BSL will only affect the already responsible and law abiding pit bull owners..not the criminals,drug dealers, and dogmen that have created this problem in the first place. THOSE scumbags will only move their dogs underground or simply target another breed and repeat the same course of events that have been occuring.

Another thing: Your precious sources (statistics and the media as you have claimed), are completely biased, and more than 80% of the time, absolutely false. First of all, in most cases, the dogs that are labelled as "pit bulls" during attacks are more than half the time not even pit bulls at all. Officials are unqualified when it comes to breed identification, and hence never get it right in the first place. There have been numerous cases (and I was a witness) where a labrador, a german shephard, and even a Chihuahua were labelled as a pit bull terrier by people. THIS IS WHY your precious media means absolutely NOTHING to me.

Another thing you need to understand is that these dogs are not meant for everyone. I believe that the only people that should be owning these dogs are those that have a thorough knowledge and understanding of the breed (or are willing to go through all the research). Most of the people that own these dogs do not..which is a complete shame since I am forced to walk by an offleash dog park and witness a pit bull amongst the other dogs..any responsible pit bull owner knows that pit bulls do not belong in dog parks..why? Because they WERE bred to fight..and cannot be 100% trusted around other animals (not humans, but animals!). BSL is not the answer..but as I have already stated, stronger laws and penalties pertaining to irresponsible dog owners and breeders. Many pit bulls are in fact abused, neglected, and exploited. This is not the fault of the dog, but again, the owner. It is shameful for anyone to even say that they should be banned. This is pure ignorance that I simply will not tolerate. If anyone believes in BSL, you need to pick up some seriously good books and do alot of research before you open your mouth and utter that bull**** again.

I suggest you start immediately:
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.cfm
http://www.dogwatch.net/strategy.html
http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petb...sponsible.html
http://www.realpitbull.com/abuse.html
http://pitbulls.jentown.com/stereoty...htm#stereotype
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/agg_dog.htm
http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

why statistics are BS:
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/purchase.html
http://s96980453.onlinehome.us/statistics.htm
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
http://www.mnp13.com/findthepitbull/FindThePitBull.aspx
http://www.goodpooch.com/BSL/realitycheck.htm

what responsible breeders SHOULD be like:
http://www.hartagold.com/
http://www.matrixkennels.com/

Once you have read ALL these links BANTHEPITBULL, then you are welcome to post in this forum...other than that..don't waste your breath because you don't know enough to be saying jack right now.

heeler's rock! · #**192** October 5th, 2004, 04:40 PM

Just a question for everyone. Why are we still wasting time on BTPB when he/she is obviously a lost cause?

He/she already said, and I quote,

Quote:

-> You cannot prove otherwise by referring me to some website with some stats. The only way that will happen is when my personal experience changes and when I stop seeing people with torn faces on the cover of newspapers.

This person's personal experience will NEVER change beacuse they won't allow it too. SammieC, you've already asked BTPB to meet a responsible pit owner, and he/she obviously doesn't want to, because they may change their mind and be proven DEAD WRONG. BTPB will regret supporting BSL when his/her cousin is "attacked" by a lab, or a golden, or even a big fluffy pom, because the irresponsible owners will no longer have their pits, then he/she will be cryingto Mr. Bryant to put down labs, goldens, and poms.

I know how everyone feels about BTPB and we are all just trying to get him/her educated on the FACTS, but I have to agree with pitbulliest, ignorance is definitely bliss. I'll bet BTPB thinks I'm a terrorist too since the media has basically said all brown people are.

Oh, and BTPB, good luck with the whole "believe everything you read" thing you've got going on for you. I just read that Elvis is alive and they found his spaceship on Mars! It must be true because it's in print!!!

pitbulliest · #**193** October 5th, 2004, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinah

Naive, gullible, scumbag. Go read the admin's thread on namecalling.

Who are you to tell anyone when they are welcome to post in this thread?

Who am I? I'm someone that doesn't support BSL...that's who I am...do you have a problem with my passion for protecting my dog against ignorant people? If so, then the message that I had directed towards BANTHEPITBULLS is for you to read as well.

And...Heelersrock..you're absolutely right...

heeler's rock! · #**194** October 5th, 2004, 05:06 PM

Look. Why are we fighting eachother now?!? BTPB is winning by dividing us. Who cares what pibulliest said to BTPB? I for one would like to see him/her make a sensible post for once too, so maybe reading the attached links won't hurt.

Dinah, you said some harsh things yourself to BTPB, as I'm sure we all did. You are correct when you say that anyone can post here, but pitbulliest didn't say BTPB couldn't post here until reading the links, they said for BTPB to stop wasting their breath. As for saying that BTPB will be welcome after reading those, well, lest's face it, BTPB hasn't been welcome here for a while now.

Maybe you could have chosen better words pitbulliest, but who cares now? Honestly? The post is there, let BTPB defend themselves if they are so offended. Let's try to stay on the topic of BSL, not who said what to whom.

mastifflover · #**195** October 5th, 2004, 05:10 PM

We dont need to argue with each other that would be stupid we all agree on the subject of BSL or can argue it intelligently on this forum. Lets see if BTPB takes the test I posted. Then we can see how incredibly breed smart he/she is. I predict a lie that he/she got it right away.

LavenderRott · #**196** October 5th, 2004, 05:13 PM

What saddens me is that this thread was a nice healthy debate with many facts presented for someone that is open minded enough to learn. Now it is a thread that has become a place to insult one another. Nothing I hate more then a hijacked thread.

chico2 · #**197** October 5th, 2004, 05:23 PM

I just saw the Windsor shelter on the news,they are OVERCROWDED by pit-bulls having been just dropped off,according to the staff,most are great dogs....it just brought me to tears

All these dogs,most who have done no harm to anyone,so sad

I take it most of those dogs were not licensed and if you own a pittie,have them licensed before all of Ontario adopts BSL..
It never really hit home,before I saw these poor dogs behind bars...what's going to happen to them? Massmurder???

chico2 · #**198** October 5th, 2004, 06:42 PM

The picture of this beautiful white pittie-girl behind bars sticks in my mind,wagging her tail,licking the hand of a handler and it really makes me sad.
Does anyone know what they are going to do to these dogs?
Are there any rescues in Canada or he US that can save them from being PTS?
Is there going to be a mass-slaughter of pit-bulls?
What happens when the THS fills up with pitties?
This is like a horror-show