When to separate both unfixed dogs?

[Tari]

I have a seven year old unfixed (correct term?) male Cocker Spaniel and a six month old female Shih Tzu, unfixed.
Curious George, the Cocker, cannot be fixed, we were told by the vet, because he has a heart condition that is not safe for anesthesia.
Puffles is a six month old beautiful unfixed female Shih Tzu. I have yet to decide if I'm going to fix her.
But in the meantime, I'm starting to wonder what the signs are and when I should keep these two apart. I don't want George to hurt her when she has her first heat! They sleep in separate crate/bed areas at night, but they're together during the day outside when we're at work. They get along wonderfully.....right now!
I did notice a little bit of bleeding today around Puffle's "privates" and now I'm worried about her heat starting soon.
When do dogs go into heat? And should I just remove George from the home all together during the heat?

[BenMax]

I have nothing to say as I have absolutely no experience when addressing these types of questions. Good luck with your dogs. I am sure you will be asking more questions in the near future.

I am certain that there are many people here that will provide you with lots of information.

[AmericanBullMom]

You can call and ask your vet this question for free. I am sure he/she would have the best answer for you.

[aslan]

all i'm going to say is, if your dog has blood around her privates then she is already in heat. I might suggest you educate yourself as much as possible before even considering breeding.

[BenMax]

[QUOTE=aslan;680899]all i'm going to say is, if your dog has blood around her privates then she is already in heat.QUOTE]

Thanks for the information, I didn't know that. I think I will contact my vet to equally find out more information on the subject matter.

[kathryn]

She's already in heat. Better keep an eye out for the neighborhood mutts! Don't leave her ANYWHERE unattended at this point or she can be impregnated by any random dog that comes by.

Oh, and be-careful she doesn't erm.. 'stain' anything. It's very yucky. I believe you can get little diapers for that though.

Probably the best option would be to completely separate your female from your other dog and just don't leave her unattended. Especially since she is a small dog, if a larger male dog mates with her that can be disastrous.

Careful of something called 'pyometra' which is a hugeeeee issue in unspayed doggies.

www.spayusa.org

This is a pro spay-neuter board.. lots of people on here are in rescue groups or volunteer at shelters. Please consider spaying your dog and not contributing to the over population of animals. If 'SC' stands for South Carolina, that's already a fairly high-kill state as it is =/ Not as bad as North Carolina or Georgia though, but really right smack in the middle of where alot of animals are already being put down at an alarming rate.

[Dog Dancer]

Tari you're getting off easy here today! Puffles is very cute, and if you really care about her you will get her fixed. She is already in heat it appears and you need to speak to your vet. She should not be left outside while you are at work, nor should she be left unattended with your male dog. If she is outside during the day a stray male will find her and it could be disastrous - for her! I can't say I'm terribly concerned for your issues if she gets caught. You appear to be under informed on this issue and need to speak to a vet.

[Tari]

Wow. Didn't know all this. Of course I'm underinformed. That's why I'm here, folks! Want to get your advice!

So being a pro-neuter board, does that mean folks abhore breeding a dog with the same breed and selling the pups to folks like myself who really, really waited a long time to buy a pure-bred Shihtzu?

I will definitely keep the two dogs apart. But our back yard is fenced in all around with a high fence. Would another dog in the neighborhood actually jump the fence? Is her heat really, really strong and can drive male dogs practically insane? Never been down this road. It's best to always be informed when you're ignorant on a topic, that's why I came here.

By the way, George is not acting any different around her. She jumps all over his back to play and he just ignores her.

[BenMax]

It is a pro-information forum. Everyone tries to help everyone out. Sometimes you may or may not like what you hear - but we are all mature people so I am certain you will be able to filter in what you want and filter out the rest.

I am sure that others will try to help you any way that they can - but your best source of information in YOUR vet. He/she knows you, and can guide you and provide you with all animal questions/issues.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by Tari

Wow. Didn't know all this. Of course I'm underinformed. That's why I'm here, folks! Want to get your advice!

So being a pro-neuter board, does that mean folks abhore breeding a dog with the same breed and selling the pups to folks like myself who really, really waited a long time to buy a pure-bred Shihtzu?

I will definitely keep the two dogs apart. But our back yard is fenced in all around with a high fence. Would another dog in the neighborhood actually jump the fence? Is her heat really, really strong and can drive male dogs practically insane? Never been down this road. It's best to always be informed when you're ignorant on a topic, that's why I came here.

By the way, George is not acting any different around her. She jumps all over his back to play and he just ignores her.

ooooh opening a can of worms..there are soooo many dogs in shelters right now looking for homes. The fact you aren't educated is very dangerous to your dog should problems arise durring birthing. There are so many different issues with breeding to get into right now. I can't comment on the breeder you got puffles from since i don't know them, but a reputable breeder will usually make you sign a spay/neutre contract.

now yes a male in the mood will jump a fence, climb it, go under etc, to get to a female in heat. For your own sanity('cause it's gonna be stressful) and for the health of puffles, please consider having her spayed.

[Dog Dancer]

Yes a male dog will find a way into your yard fenced or not. My last dog, who was not terribly large at 45 lbs, had no problem whatsoever scaling a six foot fence just for fun.

This is a pro-spay/neuter board and most members here do not support people who breed two dogs of the same breed and sell puppies. We call them byb - back yard breeders. Unless these people are showing their dogs in a professional setting, and screening their dogs for genetic disorders and such they are just contributing to the overpopulation of dogs that can end up in shelters and terrible fates.

I don't believe anybody begrudges people owning a purebred dog of their choice, but we really believe it is better to rescue (there are lots of small dogs in rescue) or to purchase your pet through a reputable and registered breeder.

Your vet needs to be contacted and perhaps they can recommend you some reading materials and such, but Yes your dog is at risk right now.

[Tari]

So if I get her fixed, when should occur? After or during her heat?

I don't want her to get hurt.

[hazelrunpack]

Talk to your vet and see if they will do the spay during the heat. Because of the risk of bleeding, many prefer not to do it till after the heat is over. If they will do it during the heat, it may cost a little more because they have to take extra precautions.

Good luck with your girl, Tari.

[Dog Dancer]

Tari, like hazel said, your vet will tell you when to spay your dog, but really, you need to call and speak to them. If you don't get her spayed until after her heat you have to be EXTREMELY DILIGENT in keeping her away from all other dogs - even your male who doesn't seem interested right now. Good luck to you.

[Tari]

Wow

There's some pretty strong opinions on here. Feel like I gotta defend myself.

I got Puffles from a reputable breeder, someone I've been familiar with for a few years now. And yes, she came with papers. And I was thinking about taking her to the breeder and having two like breeds mate. But I was not expecting her heat to start so soon. I did not think it would start at six months. Caught me offguard.

That is why I came here, folks. If I had decided to live in ignorance, I would not care and would not have researched to find this site and ask questions. Yes, I can and will take her to our vet, but I am asking based on a very short amount of time.....today and tomorrow, until I can call my vet on Monday. Because I can't call my vet till Monday, I wanted to search out the information I needed to determine the best way to take care of Puffles. Hence, my coming here.

[aslan]

Tari, i don't see that anyone has been mean or rude to you. We've given you the important information. It is yours to choose what you do with it. Good luck with puffles.

[BenMax]

Oh no Tari - there is no need for you to have to feel like you need to defend yourself....that is not a good feeling...and certainly no one's intention.

Best advise ANYONE can give you is the vet. If you cannot reach a vet now with your questions, then why not contact your friend - they should be able to guide you and answer your questions. Just a thought.

So glad you found this forum, you can always share any knowledge you have with us...the more the merrior!

[bendyfoot]

Yes, if your breeder is reputable, she should be guiding you through these stages and should have offered advice on spaying. DEFINITELY do NOT let your male anywhere near your female at any time, even if you're in the room...it only takes seconds while your back is turned for them to tie, and like others have said, the size difference between the two could be very dangerous for her. Keep your female indoors except for while on-leash and with you, until you can get her spayed. Good luck!

[Dog Dancer]

Tari wants to take Puffles to her breeder and have two like breeds mate? Tari, that does not make for a reputable breeder sorry. I hope you are able to find the information you want here. There are many people here with loads of information if you care to surf through it.

[kathryn]

Reputable breeders generally make you sign a contract that you will not allow your dog to breed.

It's best to wait until her heat is over and then get her fixed. It's a higher risk of bleeding when she's in heat because her uterus is already enlarged.

And yes, dogs have been known to scale fences to get to gals in heat It's not a pretty thing either.

Keep an eye on her, and call up the vet to schedule an appointment to have her spayed when she comes off her heat. That's your best option if you want to keep everyone happy. Otherwise you'd have to keep your doggies separated fairly often to just make sure no funny business was going on.

[TeriM]

Yes, your dogs should definately be kept apart during this stage. I would also advise buying the doggie "diapers" for her to wear at all times for some added protection. She is likely just coming in to heat and I believe it can last up to about three weeks.

PLEASE consider having your baby spayed! I know you think she is wonderful (and I am sure she is) and others should have one just like her. The sad reality is that there are no guarantees that she will have a good pregnancy and the likelihood is that somewhere along the way one or more (if not most) of the puppies will end up in a bad home or a shelter or euthanized. Even if you did find good homes that means that there is other dogs who could have got those homes instead will now be destroyed :sad:.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read all these links and help make an informed opinion (copy of a post from Erykah).

Should I breed my dog?
Here are some good links for those who are looking to breed their dog
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeding.html
http://www.nb.net/%7Ecollet/facts.htm
http://www.geocities.com/learntobreed/breedingfaq.html
http://www.dockdogs.com/content/view/54/83/
http://hattrick-dals.home.att.net/Breeding.html

Why do people get so frustrated with people who are breeding their dogs? My breed doesn’t end up in shelters and are worth a lot of money.

http://www.petfinder.com Search your breed

Why are people referring to me as a Back yard breeder (BYB)?
http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/byb.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_breeder
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

[abbyr]

Tari I asked a question yesterday about x raying a pregnant dog and read the posts I got. Abbyr

[mona_b]

Tari,this is a great place to get educated and to learn new things.

You have a beautiful 6 month old "puppy"....Do you know how much she would have to go through at this age to have pups being a pup herself?
Chances are her pups will not servive.She may not servive.Is this something you would want?

Heat ususally starts at 6 months.

As stated,never ever leave her on her own.It doesn't matter that your yard has a fence.Males will jump over to get her.

There is nothing wrong with owning a purebred.Many of us on here own purebreds.I have raised 3 German Shepherd dogs.They came from an ethical breeder who showed and titled in SchH.All health and genetic testing was done BEFORE breeding.

If you got your pup from an ethical breeder,then you thinking of breeding wouldn't be happening.You would be thinking of spaying her.

Ethical breeders have a spay/neuter contract as kathryn has mentioned.I had this contract with my boys.IF I didn't have them neutered at 6 months,I would have been taken to court and have to pay my breeder $5000.Since I had two pups at the time,that would have been $10.000.

No one is coming down hard on you.We are just trying to advise you .And you have stated that you were uneducated.Soooooo,we are here to educate you...

My mom has a 3 year old Shih Tzu also.Her name is Tiny...And yes,Tiny has been spayed.

Talk to your vet.He will talk to you about spaying.

Sorry to hear about George and his condition..:sad:

[Tari]

I am not a backyard breeder!!! I take offense to that.

But at the same time, I really value and appreciate the responses I've gotten. I agree about spaying and neutering, the overpopulation in this world of dogs and cats. I've volunteered at a cat shelter....believe me, I know what you are talking about!!

I spoke with my husband about the issue last night. He said that I have to decide what to do about fixing Puffles since she's my dog, but that he leans toward spay/neutering (?) her.
I examined my heart and mind and can find no logical reason to breed her. I am not in the business of breeding, have never been, and have no intentions of starting one. So, by deduction, my only rationale for not fixing her would have been to breed her and make money off the puppies. And that does not bode well with me at all. I don't want to make money at the expense of my sweet Puffles!
So I'll call the vet on Monday and make an appt. for her to be fixed. But I do believe, just on the limited information I have, that we should wait until after this heat is over. Her uterus is already going through some changes right now. I think the surgery can keep until the heat is over. There's no rush anyway to get her fixed any sooner, as I am taking all the precautions to keep her physically safe right now.

Yesterday we set up her own bed area in the bathroom. I've attached a photo showing part of the bathroom area she's got to herself.
She's not liking it one bit!
She's also holding her urine. She has yet to go to the bathroom on the puppy pad today while in the bathroom. When I let her out into my office next door, she runs to a corner and acts like she wants to pee. I pick her up, put her back in the bathroom, and say "go peepee." She doesn't pee. I guess I figure eventually it's got to come out, so leave her in there until it does!
Then I'm allowing her just in the kitchen area adjacent to the bathroom so she's able to still run around. I also play fetch with her to get her exercise.
George is either outside or in his pen area in the garage. Whilst we bring George in and out, Puffles stays closed in the bathroom.
Does that "jive" with everyone's recommendations?

[Tari]

Oops. that image is a bit big!! How do I size it down?

[14+kitties]

Is Puffles house trained? If so why would you un-train her by using pads? That is why she isn't peeing. She knows it's wrong to go in the house.
She can still go outside. You just need to go out with her to make sure there is no danger. Keep her on a leash near you.

[Tari]

I took her outside on a leash too. both my husband and I have tried. Both times she won't go to the bathroom.

[14+kitties]

Has she been drinking the same amounts? Maybe she just doesn't need to go or she could also be stressed out by the changes in her routine. I would keep her in as normal of a routine as possible. As long as you or your hubby are home she should be with you. Only separate her when you aren't available to watch her. She is probably confused as to why she can't be with her family.

[krdahmer]

I just wanted to say welcome, and glad to have you on the site! I believe everyone has already given you great advice, and since I am of the pro-spay opinion as well, I'll just leave it at that.

She is a very pretty girl! I hope all goes well with the vet monday and I'd love to see pics of your other doggy as well!

[ScottieDog]

Tari, you are getting good advice here. I just wanted to put something else in here to consider. First, I have no experience with female dogs in heat (my rescue Scottie was spayed before coming to live with us). But, my little girl did get a urinary tract infection (UTI) that caused her to pass blood in her urine. Since you mentioned that George is showing no interest in your pup, that made me want to mention the possibility of a UTI. UTIs are painful and some dogs will drink excessively and urinate excessively, but others may drink little and try to hold their urine because it hurts to pee. But, if she isn't going into her heat cycle, she probably will soon and it sounds like you are taking good precautions at this point until you can talk to your vet.

Watch her pads for brownish or bloody urine. Also, if you take her outdoors to pee-pee, you could try sliding a white paper plate under her to see the color of her urine. Sorry to be gross, but I lived with urinary issues with my little girl and just want to mention this as a possibility. And since it probably is her heat cycle you still want to take precautions.

I didn't read all the links, but I do know that spaying a dog at an early age really reduces her chance of mammary (breast) cancer. Good luck with Puffles--she is cute.