Shelters and Pet Stores

[Bushfire2000]

CJ05 I also bought a dog from a pet store (I no longer go to pet stores that sell puppies)
However, Lacey is a dream, she will be 6yrs old in February and I've never had a bit of trouble healthwise with her.
The pet store I bought from did not get the puppies from a puppy mill. I know who bred her and even though she was a mix breed I did receive a 1 year guarantee.
I do not believe that only purebred dogs are good dogs. After all they were all "designer" dogs to start with.

[LM1313]

There will always be enough irresponsible people around letting their dogs breed indiscriminately to supply dogs. Education can make a dent in the surplus of unwanted animals, but it will never take to the point where we have a lack of dogs. Especially considering how many puppies can be in a litter . . . Remember 101 Dalmations and the litter of fifteen puppies? It was based on a real life litter that the author's dog had. FIFTEEN puppies from two dogs!

I also am fond of mixed breeds and have never had a purebred. But I don't think it makes any sense to pay big money for them.

~LM~

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Bushfire2000

CJ05 I also bought a dog from a pet store (I no longer go to pet stores that sell puppies)
However, Lacey is a dream, she will be 6yrs old in February and I've never had a bit of trouble healthwise with her.
I find that a lot of the attitudes on this forum are very "big city" they do not relate to my rural lifestyle.
The pet store I bought from did not get the puppies from a puppy mill. I know who bred her and even though she was a mix breed I did receive a 1 year guarantee.
I do not believe that only purebred dogs are good dogs. After all they were all "designer" dogs to start with. My very first dog was listed by the vet as a cockapoo(he wasn't it was the vets idea and only for identification purposes). That was at least twenty-five years ago. Now I see advertisements for CKC reg Cockapoos, these were a mix how did they become a breed?
My point being that who are we to condem others for breeding dogs, if they do it with care and consideration for the animals. And I do not for a minute support puppymills because they are only in it for the dollars. But I would have given anything to have the wonderful temperament and companionship of my first dog bestowed upon others (he was neutered)
I belive that most pets should be spayed/neutered but I also don't think I should have to pay thousands of dollars to have a puppy/dog. If only the best of the best are breeding then where will the pets come from? and who would be able to have one?

Guys, I think we're not understanding each other and so everyone is missing the point. I think nobody is questionning the care you are all providing your pets. The question is entirely ETHICAL and based on the concept of PROFIT over living creatures. When purchasing a puppy from a petstore, you have one and only one certainty: someone is making money. Sometimes, yes, the pups come from an accidental breeding and the pups were well taken care of in a family environment and we could discuss indefinitely if they were properly socialized, what the parents' temperaments were, what they were fed and at what age the pups were weaned. Maybe those pups came from a puppy mill and this is a big time nightmare. This is something nobody actually realizes until you have seen it with your own eyes - it's a little like famine in Africa. You don't like seeing in on tv but you never ever get close to understanding what it really implies if you haven't been there. But besides these considerations, what is WRONG is that the petstore is making MONEY from the transaction. Not a single petstore will give you a pet away or sell it to you for the price of the shots and spaying/neutering (however they do almost give hamsters away and make money with the accessories...). Selling an animal is WRONG because animals are not ours to OWN. They are not to be traded, they are not to be auctioned, they are not to be looked at in terms of monetary value.

Now if you go to what we consider as an ethical breeder. You say you don't want to pay 500 $ for a dog. If you research this carefully, you will find that the few responsible ETHICAL breeders out there do not make a single PENNY out of their breeding activities. In fact, they have to work hard to find enough money to support those activities. Some people believe there should not be any breeding activities until our shelters are empty and there are no more homeless pets. This is a different issue. But a TRUE ethical breeder will spend a fortune in acquiring the right dogs to breed, test them for all genetic defects, feed them properly, train them, show them to have them assessed according to the breed standard, hopefully have them work at what they are bred for (herding, retrieving, protecting, etc.) and have them compete to assess their working abilities, then if the dogs measure up to the standards required to breed them, do so and redo all the testing on the pups. By the time all the veterinary care as been given, and all money spent in travelling, accessories, etc, has been taken into account, you will see the breeder has spent much more than what he will ask you for in return. No profit is made there. All is done in the respect of the animal.

Remember. We have domesticated the dog and have made it a slave to whatever we do to him. Dogs depend on us completely and this is our own responsibility. Why would it be more ethical to exchange money for an animal than it is for a human ? We owe animals enough respect to REFUSE to exchange dirty money for them...

[Prin]

I showed this guy to my boyfriend yesterday: He'll break your heart
And I asked him, "You see his eyes? You can see that there is love there and there is a great doggy in there. He just got handed such a crappy body."

And that is the difference between pet store puppies and well-bred puppies. Great breeders are striving for better puppies. Healthier puppies. Puppies that they know will have less chance of suffering from genetic disorders. Back in the day, before DNA testing and health testing, mixed breeds might have been healthier. Not anymore. Now, if both parents test negative for certain known genes that cause diseases, the offspring won't have them. With mutts, it's a mix-and-match game. Two different breed dogs from amazing breeding aren't likely to have unhealthy offspring, but with two dogs from unknown backgrounds, it's basically a lottery of genes. You never know what can come out. Owning a mutt is not a bad thing (it's a great thing), BREEDING mutts is.

Buying from a petstore isn't horrible unless you KNOW what is going on. If you come here, learn about breeders and pet stores and then go out and buy a dog from a pet store, yes, you are a horrible person. But if you unknowingly bought a dog at a petstore and promise to never do it again, you are the type of person that really fits in on this board.

Sure, they're sad in their glass cages, but so are the 120 000 dogs on petfinder. They have FAR less chance of finding a home than a baby with fluffy fur and bright lights on him in a high traffic store. Some dogs have been sitting in no-kill shelters for YEARS and still are not adopted. That's sad. Some dogs are so special and are waiting to be discovered, but sadly they never are.

The solution is boycott and be loud about it. Educate everybody you know. The less pups are bought, the less will be bred. If we can't have the law on our side, we can use our buying power instead.

[Prin]

Inverness, you made me realize- the argument here, it should be pointed out, is not that the dogs should never have homes or that mutts are bad dogs. The argument here is that people should not be breeding these dogs on purpose (or by accident) and selling them for profit. And we should not support them treating dogs in this manner.

The byb who accidentally had a litter should screen his own puppies' prospective owners, draw up a contract and vaccinate/deworm, etc the pups before sending them to their new homes. Allowing your puppy to go home with a stranger shows you have no regard for its life.

[BMDLuver]

Originally Posted by Prin

The byb who accidentally had a litter should screen his own puppies' prospective owners, draw up a contract and vaccinate/deworm, etc the pups before sending them to their new homes. Allowing your puppy to go home with a stranger shows you have no regard for its life.

Let me just add that the pups should also be s/n before going to their new homes and then the cycle will not continue with the next generation.

[Beautygirl]

So sad to see what these dogs go through. It makes me so mad to see that people could treat animals this way. We adopted our little angel from the SPCA. Unfortunately the previous owners did not have her spayed and she had a litter of puppies (cutest little things), but we brought the momma home with us. She already has her appointment made to be spayed. No more puppies for her. :love:

[CJ05]

In conversation with my wife; whom had gotten more information about our dog when we got her; the owners of the puppies did not sell them to the pet store (but yes the store did make profit) and they were kept in the house and well taken care of. Not all of the litter ended up at the store as some had found homes. Our dog was vacinated and dewormed before we got her. I do realize that this is not the case for all dogs and some are brought up in less than ideal conditions and/or the owners are doing it for a profit. The owners may have given the dogs to the pet store because in most cases if they were taken to a shelter , and definetly dog catchers, then there are sometimes admittance fees (maybe they didn't want to pay that;who knows).
I personally was not so aware of puppy mills and such before we got our dog but now understand where people are coming from. When people meet my dog for the first time I introduce her like a family member and do not advertise the fact that she came from a pet store and I have encouraged others to look at shelters, so a I 'm not all pro pet store.
I know of some individuals that love dogs and they breed pure bred labs in a very good environment. They do make a profit and if they didn't they probably wouldn't do it. Sad but true. It sometimes crossed my mind that all dogs and kitties should be adopted out much like humans but unfortunetly thats not the case.
I would like to thank people for their insight. Its certainly opened my eyes. This is an excellent forum and I do value the opinions of others. Just hope that I'm not a horrible person. I do however look ahead and will not dwell on the past.

[CJ05]

Originally Posted by BMDLuver

Let me just add that the pups should also be s/n before going to their new homes and then the cycle will not continue with the next generation.

Unfortunetly puppies can't be s/n until they are at least 5-6 months old depending on the breed.

[Lucky Rescue]

Unfortunetly puppies can't be s/n until they are at least 5-6 months old depending on the breed.

Who told you that? It's absolutely not true. Rescues with litters of puppies s/n them before they are adopted which can be at 8 - 12 weeks old. More and more vets are doing these pediatric spay/neuters to try and stop the overpopulation.

A 6 month old puppy of a toy breed is capable of getting pregnant at 6 months old, and should always be spayed before adoption.

Letting puppies go to new homes intact is highly irresponsible. I know petstores do this, because s/n would cut sharply into their profits, or they would have to price the puppies out of range to make up for it.

[BMDLuver]

Originally Posted by CJ05

Unfortunetly puppies can't be s/n until they are at least 5-6 months old depending on the breed.

Incorrect information. They can be done at 4lbs or 8 weeks.

[mafiaprincess]

Many petstore puppies have screwed temperments as well. While it isn't the dog's fault, it can be increadibly hard to give that dog a life, and many get dumped in the spca.

In supporting petstores, you are supporting many negative things.

As sad as it is to think about what may happen to that dog if it isn't bought.. It really is for the good of things to have not bought it, and to help shut down petstores from having a market to sell to.

[CJ05]

Sorry my mistake. Actually alot of vets will not do s/n until pups are almost close to sexual maturity 5-6 months. Yes they can be done at 8 weeks. I only know one vet in our area s/n this early. My vet said her earliest one she ever did was 16 weeks.
I agree, dogs that spend too much time in a pet store will have temperment problems. Fortunetly ours was only there for 3 days.

[BMDLuver]

Originally Posted by CJ05

Sorry my mistake. Actually alot of vets will not do s/n until pups are almost close to sexual maturity 5-6 months. Yes they can be done at 8 weeks. I only know one vet in our area s/n this early. My vet said her earliest one she ever did was 16 weeks.

There is a difference between a privately owned animal and a rescue animal. The necessity for the rescue animal to be altered is greater than the privately owned animal who religiously shows up for all it's vaccinations and discusses optimum age provided it has a responsible pet owner. Shelters can't take that chance and should not ie. SPCA's, HS etc.. Rescue recommendations and privately owned pets are two different entities when discussing this with a vet.

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by CJ05

I know of some individuals that love dogs and they breed pure bred labs in a very good environment. They do make a profit and if they didn't they probably wouldn't do it

Well then this to me sounds like a BYB.....NO reputable breeder makes a profit.A good enviroment doesn't really mean much.

Reputable breeders breed to better the breed(whew,say that 5 times fast..LOL)


Well I am glad you can understand where we are all coming from.And thank you for redirecting others to go to a shelter.

And no you are not a horrible person...Like you stated before,you knew nothing about puppy mills..

We are here to help educate those who don't know....And I am sure you can now do the same....

[xixvnajlavxix]

In Idaho, we're lucky enough to have a few pet stores, and the ones that pop up normally only sell hampsters and such. I don't think all pet stores are bad, infact, theres a few here that sells animals that wont be accepted by the IHS because of age (being too old, not too young) and such. Some pet stores here only sell the supplies for animals, and then have one or two chosen pets rescued from the society from the big E to be adopted.

[Mom_Of_Two_Dogs]

I wish tehre was some sort of law that made it so only shelter dogs and cats (as well as rabbits, etc) can be adopted out from petstores in place of mill-bred animals, like how PetsMart, etc, adopts out cats/dogs.