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  #31  
Old February 25th, 2010, 01:06 PM
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Oh wow, i am so sorry this has happend to yot. I cannot imagine how violated you must have felt to see them at your window like that.
I do however that they are allowed to enter your yard when investigating to gather evidence. Like if you complained about a neglected dog in a yard, they would enter to check, nothing can be damaged. They cannot enter your house without permission unless there is a warrent.
The taking pics, is scary, and i dont know if moving the tarp and taking pics of inside is o.k. Call a lawyer and get a free consultation and ask.

I think the best thing to do is contact the media. Here you are SAVING animals, helping the very people you feel violated by. Kind enough to open your home to a couple babies in need for a few days. Are any of the dogs under 6 months? Usually pups dont count toward your total.

Municipalities need to start some kind of fostering permit. Where with a letter from a rescue group you could get a free permit that allows you 3 extra pets that can each stay 6 months.

Wow, i am just so sorry for you, and angry! Here they dont push if its a foster, and ignore it, unless their is a complaint. Do you have any terrible neighbor complaining and making a stink to them that is making them push it this far? Keep us updated. I wish you all the luck in the world.
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  #32  
Old February 26th, 2010, 01:35 AM
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Helen, I was wondering if your patio door is the only place they can see into your house? I'm thinking that there is liquid stuff u can put on glass that will cover all the glass in a frosted pattern so no one could see thru it. It still let's light in thought. My parents used it on the bathroom window so no one could see in it. You could put masking tape around an area u want to use as a peep hole to see outside as the frost stuff wouldn't cover that part when the tape was on it. Then u could just cover the hole when you weren't using it or not home. You just use a scrapper to get the frost stuff off when u don't need it anymore. Just a thought.

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  #33  
Old February 26th, 2010, 01:50 AM
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I am kind of lucky. My bylaw officer is also the guy that calls me to pull dogs. He knows how many I have and has told me to licence the rest for out of town. If I ever get fined, I will go to jail....I need the time off ( no holidays for 8 years) and free dental..lol
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  #34  
Old February 26th, 2010, 04:55 PM
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Well I did get our local media involved.. they did an article in our paper.. scroll down its page 4 I think..

http://www.yourlocaljournal.ca/pdf/issue.pdf

and I have been in touch with Janet at KiKo.. we are going to try something together as well..

Thank You for all the kind words and encouragement .. it means allot..
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  #35  
Old February 26th, 2010, 06:06 PM
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Good for you Helen !
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  #36  
Old February 26th, 2010, 06:21 PM
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Very good article HelenNutmeg. Took most of page five.
This paragraph is interesting......
“Our inspectors ring and knock but if
there is no answer they are still allowed
to go onto the property,” said Martel.
“They can take pictures of the property,
even the inside of the building.
Whatever somebody else can actually
see, the inspectors are allowed to take
pictures of.”

Did they knock? Of course they will say they did. Also, the part about "whatever somebody else can actually see"; the only way they "saw" was to move aside your temp covering. That should not have been allowed.

TQ's suggestion of a frosted covering is a good one. There is a MacTac covering you can buy to cover windows. They can snap all the pics they want but all they will see is shadows. You could say the shadows were cats or furniture.

Talk about having your rights violated! You should have the right of privacy in your own home. Disgusting!
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  #37  
Old February 26th, 2010, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaykeija View Post
I am kind of lucky. My bylaw officer is also the guy that calls me to pull dogs. He knows how many I have and has told me to licence the rest for out of town. If I ever get fined, I will go to jail....I need the time off ( no holidays for 8 years) and free dental..lol
Yes we are lucky too. Our bylaw guy comes to our house whenever I find strays. And we had a in depth conversation about our dogs and rescue. He knows we have 4. But God forbid if he ever leaves
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  #38  
Old February 26th, 2010, 07:01 PM
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Good for you! I sure hope this article helps you
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  #39  
Old February 26th, 2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Cathy1 View Post
Where I live the city workers, gas companies, hydro,police, people like that are allowed to enter the property. I do not believe they should be taking pictures through the window.
Being a Hydro employee in Ontario and being allowed on any property that has hydro because of our property allowances I can assure you we are NOT allowed to take pictures of anything, even with the home owners consent.
I took a picture of a very pretty black dog with bright blue eyes with the owners consent and got in SOOO much crap from my supervisor, she called the customer to see if my story had matched up.
the only things we are allowed to photograph on peoples property is meters, lines, poles ect. Things related to the company.

I would be so freaked out having people just walk on my property like that and snapping pics.
Could you put a lock on the gate to keep them out?
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  #40  
Old February 26th, 2010, 08:12 PM
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Excellent work Helen. Now call the CBC!
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  #41  
Old February 26th, 2010, 08:36 PM
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Excellent article that shows you are being victimized by your municipality and that won't stand well with the homeowners who pay taxes. I would make reference to money being wasted by the people in charge who are harrassing a credible charity organization that benefits the township by taking animals from shelters and a adopts them out to loving families.
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  #42  
Old February 26th, 2010, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by erykah1310 View Post
Being a Hydro employee in Ontario and being allowed on any property that has hydro because of our property allowances I can assure you we are NOT allowed to take pictures of anything, even with the home owners consent.
I took a picture of a very pretty black dog with bright blue eyes with the owners consent and got in SOOO much crap from my supervisor, she called the customer to see if my story had matched up.
the only things we are allowed to photograph on peoples property is meters, lines, poles ect. Things related to the company.

I didn't say they could take pictures. I said they can come on the property. We had problem with neighbors throwing garbage into our backyard and when we contacted the police and by law officer we were told it was our word against their's so we put up cameras in our windows and caught them. Once the neighbors knew they were caught they had their lawyer send a letter stating that we had to remove our cameras because it showed part of their yard. We refused so they took us to court and the judge said there is no law saying we cannot take pictures of other peoples property but we cannot have our cameras viewing in peoples windows, which we didn't, it only showed the area where they would stand to throw the garbage. So our cameras are still up but not turned on. We also had the by law officer called on us because the neighbor said our shed was built illegally. An officer showed up with pictures on his camera and I asked how he got the pictures because we have locks on our gates and he said he used a ladder and took them from the neighbors yard. The law states that our shed has to be 4 ft from any property line and ours is 3 ft 6 in. which we fought and won. That's when we were told by a judge that they are allowed to take pictures but are not allowed to take pictures inside a building because that falls under the privacy issue.
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  #43  
Old February 26th, 2010, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Girls View Post
I'm not sure how illegal this was. I'm thinking they may have rang the bell (while you were washing your hair) in response to a neighbour's complaint (maybe barking?) seeing you've already been ticketed for too many dogs I'm almost sure legally they are now allowed to get proof as to whether or not your over the limit again. 2nd offence = $200 each for a total of $1400 means you have 7 over the legal limit? Here in LaSalle AC officers can and will seize anything over 2 on the spot with the help of a police officer.

I'm not saying their not A$$holes but they are city employees. I've been on candid camera just for allowing my dogs paw on green space therefore couldn't fight the multiple tickets I received I tried filing harassment against my AC and the police wouldn't even take my complaint, it's crazy

The thing with animal control they do not like to be showed up because their job is selling or pts'g lost or surrended animals while others like the OP are trying to save them so they target with the help of neighbours to anyone doing this, so corrupt
The tickets were 3 of $400.00 .. 3 of them for the three extra dogs they saw.. even though 2 in the yard were mine.. The extra $200.00 for unlawful use of my home.
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  #44  
Old February 27th, 2010, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by HelenNutmeg View Post
Well I did get our local media involved.. they did an article in our paper.. scroll down its page 4 I think..

http://www.yourlocaljournal.ca/pdf/issue.pdf

and I have been in touch with Janet at KiKo.. we are going to try something together as well..

Thank You for all the kind words and encouragement .. it means allot..
Great article! Your city and these officers should be ashamed of themselves, disgusting. Hopefully it'll encourage people to help by fostering for you
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  #45  
Old February 27th, 2010, 04:49 PM
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I wonder IF....

HelenNutmeg.......what about contacting Fifth Estate......I wonder if they would be interested in this type of story......Municipality harassing small animal rescue instead of going after the backyard breeders, throw away and abusive people ???? Worth a call maybe......we had to watch Earl Jones maybe an animal story might wake up a more people about the work you do and your cause...!!!
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  #46  
Old February 27th, 2010, 05:50 PM
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Where I live, it's my understanding that people who have rescue animals are exempt for those laws. Do they know you have rescues?
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  #47  
Old February 27th, 2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Girls View Post
The thing with animal control they do not like to be showed up because their job is selling or pts'g lost or surrended animals :
I hope you are not making a general assumption of all ACO's. The HS that i used to work only Pts extremely sick and are injured animal..were meds or recovery and release is not possible. As for surrended animals...do you know what surrended means? When someone comes into the shelter and surrenders their animal, the animal is no longer legially yours, but the shelters. The HS can put this animal up for adoption.

For adopting out lost pets...the law states that every animal, that comes through shelter doors, has to be held as a stray for x amount of days. Once the stray hold is up, the animal becomes legially the shelters and can be put up for adoption. So shelters do not sell other peoples pets.

CHICO: We can not allowed walk into someones backyard.

However in the picture, I believe the guy is standing on public property. If so, he is not traspassing. For instance...I could stand at the end of someones driveway and take a picture of your dog in your yard. I am still on public property and the dog is in plain view.

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  #48  
Old February 27th, 2010, 07:05 PM
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ACO22 the pictures that Helen posted were from her back window, so he is on her property opening the gate, he then enters her backyard walks up onto her deck, pulls a tarp back and takes pictures through her back door window.. I was sooooo waiting for you to post to confirm they're not allowed on private property.
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  #49  
Old February 27th, 2010, 07:58 PM
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Oops sorry..didn't see the other pictures. I just scrolled to the first one.

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  #50  
Old February 27th, 2010, 08:00 PM
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helen contact c t v news, it was a great piece in the paper, brenda and the pins
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  #51  
Old February 27th, 2010, 08:31 PM
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we should all write letters to the editor, because you know the inspectors will be following it up to see if anyone is on their side
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  #52  
Old February 28th, 2010, 12:58 PM
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Helen, can I ask why you didn't confront them? I am assuming the pics you took of them are from the backyard?

Legally they did not have the right to take pics and snoop around.

As for the Police needing a warrent, not always. There are situations where one is not needed. And as for cruelty calls, again in certain situations pics can be taken. But this is with the cruelty investigators. They have the same authority as cops in laying charges. But that's a bit off topic.

I agree with the no trespassing sign. But I also suggest the beware of dog signs. Some people have misconceptions as to what this sign means. It actually is a warning stating that a dog lives there. I have one. My niece and her fiance(criminal lawyer) also have one as do all my family and friends as I have told them to put one up. This actually stops some fool from breaking in. Unless they want to get bitten. Or if they do get bitten, it lessens the chance of them wanting to charge you. I know a judge who actually threw out the case where someone was bitten. His reply was, did you not read the signs. . Yes this from a Judge.
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  #53  
Old February 28th, 2010, 01:00 PM
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hey MonaB , I have a question for you , I"ll pm you.
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  #54  
Old February 28th, 2010, 01:04 PM
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i'll answer it as best I can.
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  #55  
Old February 28th, 2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO22 View Post
I hope you are not making a general assumption of all ACO's. The HS that i used to work only Pts extremely sick and are injured animal..were meds or recovery and release is not possible. As for surrended animals...do you know what surrended means? When someone comes into the shelter and surrenders their animal, the animal is no longer legially yours, but the shelters. The HS can put this animal up for adoption.

For adopting out lost pets...the law states that every animal, that comes through shelter doors, has to be held as a stray for x amount of days. Once the stray hold is up, the animal becomes legially the shelters and can be put up for adoption. So shelters do not sell other peoples petsACO22
Not generalizing, speaking from experience and many of their methods here in Quebec. This petition letter to the Minister of Municipal Affairs - pretty much self explanatory http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/ani...he-gas-chamber
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  #56  
Old February 28th, 2010, 02:16 PM
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Where I live, it's my understanding that people who have rescue animals are exempt for those laws. Do they know you have rescues?
It's important to realize that every province has their own by-laws. In the Montreal area they refuse to recognize rescues therefore we can only keep in our home the max pets by your muticipality. Anything over your limit you must have a kennel license but you cannot get one if you live in a residencial area because of zoning laws. Many still do but once your targeted they'll continue to harrass you. People I know have had to move.

Sophie Adoptions aka Lil'RickyMom another Montreal rescuer had a really hard time a few years ago with her animal control officer and kept getting ticket and ticket. I think she fought them in court, not sure the outcome
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  #57  
Old February 28th, 2010, 02:23 PM
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But I also suggest the beware of dog signs. Some people have misconceptions as to what this sign means. It actually is a warning stating that a dog lives there. I have one. My niece and her fiance(criminal lawyer) also have one as do all my family and friends as I have told them to put one up. This actually stops some fool from breaking in. Unless they want to get bitten. Or if they do get bitten, it lessens the chance of them wanting to charge you. I know a judge who actually threw out the case where someone was bitten. His reply was, did you not read the signs. . Yes this from a Judge.
Mona, I was told to put a sign "beware of dog" because Utility Co's have a right to enter private property and should be aware of the danger prior to entering. Then I got a visit from my Animal Control and he told me with that sign he can seize my dogs because it's stating their dangerous? To add insult I was also told by him if my dogs ever bit anyone even a burglar on my property they would be pts? In any event I removed the sign
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  #58  
Old March 1st, 2010, 03:54 PM
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I don't see these signs many places, but you could always make your own, some say 'DOG IN YARD'. That's it. It just states the fact that there is a dog in the yard. No implication of danger. I would try that one over Beware of Dog. I sure hope you can get more publicity on this, it really is over the top the way they took the pics. I do believe you have proof they moved the tarp to take the pics. The fellow in the news article states they can take pictures of something everybody can see - well you can't see through your tarps without moving them. Good luck to you.
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  #59  
Old March 2nd, 2010, 09:16 AM
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Hi
I know I have seen signs saying "Dog on Premises", I don't know if that would be the same as Dog in Yard. But I would think it would be.
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  #60  
Old March 2nd, 2010, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Golden Girls View Post
Mona, I was told to put a sign "beware of dog" because Utility Co's have a right to enter private property and should be aware of the danger prior to entering. Then I got a visit from my Animal Control and he told me with that sign he can seize my dogs because it's stating their dangerous? To add insult I was also told by him if my dogs ever bit anyone even a burglar on my property they would be pts? In any event I removed the sign
NO, AC can't seize your dogs because of the sign. And I don't know why you were told that..If that was true, then everyone I know with signs(including me) would not have their dogs.

Again, the signs are WARNING people that there is a dog on the property. It's up to the person who wants to chance it. If a JUDGE will throw it out of court, what does that tell you?

And you can tell them that this came from someone who has been in Law for 20+ years.
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