To crate or not to crate? What do you say?

[Sneaky2006]

It seems to me you started this thread just for arguements sake. What exactly did you want out of it?

We crate our dog... I myself don't work, but at night and whenever we are away, he's crated.
He hasn't chewed anything yet and that's because he's watched when we're home and the crate watches him when we're not. It makes perfect sense. I know my dog would chew things, probably chase the cats, eat their food and whatever else he wanted if he wasn't crated.

Comparing that to crating cats is just insane. My cats scratch the furniture when I'm sitting on it. while we're away, quick scratch on the way to sleep yet again doesn't make a difference, but chewing furniture is a completely different story.

You're having this arguement about people who crate when they're home (and not asleep, I'm guessing) and nobody here that posted does that...

[CyberKitten]

Re: Prin's remarks about the airlines. I think for the most part that's true- you hear so many horror stories, a cat and her carrier run over and the big bugaboo - the lack of oxygen (to save money) in the cargo hold. I do travel with my cat by airplane but I make the arrangements first so that I can take her on the plane with me. I've never had any bad experiences that way. Even travelling by car, cats should stay in their carrier - so many have been lost when they bolted out due to an accident or some scare.

Just my thoughts on travel by air with a cat.

[Prin]

Ya, I wish that I could bring my doggies on the plane- they'd make the ride much more fun then talking to strangers... But if there's barely room for a person, I don't know how a 96lb dog will fit in the chair. He won't have room to put his tray down.

As for this thread, I have only seen bad crate usage and I wanted to hear from more responsible people, and how they feel about it. Whether they have tried anything else and this is a last resort or if they jumped right into it.

[Sneaky2006]

Whether they have tried anything else and this is a last resort or if they jumped right into it.

Last resort??? Try my first. You're still making it seem like everyone here that crates their dog is only doing it because we don't know what else to do, and that crating shouldn't be a regular option.

[Prin]

No, I'm just wondering what the reasoning is for people who crate. Just like how you guys who do crate seem to think that we who don't are all stay at home moms or have dogs that dominate us, I just want to hear the reasoning from the people who do it. Like ask pitbull owners what they think about breed bans, ask craters why they like crating. Judgements aside, I just wanted feedback from the other side.

[Sneaky2006]

Just like how you guys who do crate seem to think that we who don't are all stay at home moms or have dogs that dominate us,

Who thinks that?? Some people agree with crating, some people don't, it's that simple. I am not judging anyone for not doing it, just as I hope no one is judging me because I do.

You said judgements aside, but that's all you're doing is judging, I don't get it.

Everyone here that crates does it for the safety of their other animals, themselves, or to save what's left of their house. Isn't that all you wanted?

[meowzart]

The dog doesn't have a right to be everywhere and anywhere he wants to when ever he/she pleases. People I know with this mentality have obnoxious dogs that are out of control. The dog earns the right to gain freedom in the house by learning self control and dependable behavior.

I don't know who you know, but more people I know with uncontrollable dogs crate them. The ones who give them free reign on the house are confident in their training skills and their dogproofing, and it usually shows in a good way

You missed the point of what I said - My comment was directed at the mentality of the dog being an 'equal member of the family' ; that has nothing to do with crating. People with the mentality that the dog is equal hence there's no alpha being are the ones with obnoxious pets - that has nothing to do with crating! A dog needs to 'earn' the right for more freedom in my opinion.

crating or not crating isn't what creates a better behaved dog.

I don't think that those of us that crate are saying anyone's wrong NOT to crate - whatever floats your boat. But if you have never TRIED training by crating then don't critisize. Obviously all of us 'animal freaks' are using it successfully and in a way that is working to create a healthy well adjusted family member.

[Prin]

I don't get it-- I reread all my posts and it seems like I am getting attacked for things I didn't even say. I never said uncrated dogs were more obedient than crated dogs. I just replied to the person who said dogs who had free run of the house were obnoxious and out of control. I repeat what other people wrote and that makes me judgemental? It seems I'm getting attacked here more than anybody else. I just wanted to know why you all crated and I get attacked. I got my answer a long time ago and I am still getting attacked. Why does everybody assume the worst tone in what I write? I meant no tone. I asked if it was a last resort. If it wasn't all you had to answer was "no, it's my preferred method." I just don't understand the BASICS of crating. I didn't understand what came first, the dog or the crate. That's all. I didn't need the jumping to conclusions or the attacks.

I got my answer harshly and despite that, I am happy I know why now.

[meowzart]

to the person who said dogs who had free run of the house were obnoxious and out of control

WOULD YOU PLEASE GET YOUR QUOTES RIGHT!!!!! yes I'm yelling - I explained AGAIN that that is NOT what I said. Would you read it please sheesh that's annoying!

[BMDLuver]

Prin wrote in a thread about incontinent Beagle:

I'm so glad you're giving this doggy another chance. What about putting him in a smaller room, like a bathroom when you're not home, instead of a hard to clean basement? You can even buy a baby gate so he won't feel as confined because he'll see out.

How does this differ from a crate?

[happycats]

OK, I just started reading this thread, and I think, Prin was just trying to start a good debate on why people do or don't crate, and their reasons for it!

I don't think people should get so offended, I don't think any harm was meant by it, flame me is you want for saying it. Why do some use crates and some don't??
It's getting everyones take on it, and maybe after new people(or people just getting a new dog) read through all the threads they can make a more informed decision, based on the answers that people here give.

Basically what I'm trying to say is,don't you think it's better to make this thread more for educational purposes then, flaming purposes??

[mona_b]

"people are so busy and work so many hours that they just don't have the time to spend with a puppy,in training and in supervision"

(sorry,couldn't find this to quote it)

This is not true will all people.I do shift work,and work 12 hours.I raised 2-3 month old GSD's.No I didn't crate them.Like I stated before,I blocked off the kitchen.Yes I paper trained them.This was 9 years ago.And I had no problems house training them this was.They were taught all basic commands,and were both socialized all the time.I made sure of that.Especially since my one was going to become a Police Dog.And with they training I gave him,he passed with flying colours.He became my brothers partner.Even with my shift work and hours,I made darn sure I was going to focus on their training and socializing.Both my dogs were very well trainined and very well socialized.

Yes,I do know of some people who do get a puppy and have no time what so ever.The poor puppy is left alone for hours at a time.Which is not good for a very young one.Especially since they can't hold it in for a long period of time.This is where a famly friend or dog sitter comes in.They are handy.And if they puppy chews,where does it get put?Yes,back in the crate instead of being re-directed and taught what he can and cannot chew.And they wonder why they can't break the chewing habit.Sorry,but I have seen this a few times.And then they end up in shelters cause they can't take it no more.And they go out and get another.This ticks me off.

So if you don't have time for a pup,then no,you definately should not get one.

[heidiho]

I do agree with getting a puppy if u cant have someone come over and let it out..My experience with the crate was great,at night when he was a puppy we had him in bed with us he would get up in the middle of the night and go lay in his crate,when i had to run to the store i would say kennel he would go right in,if i had to go out for a bit i would put him in there,i never put him in there as punishment,he would go in on his own and chew on a bone or just nap,i used to think they seemed cruel but it was the best tool i used..I let him have the kitchen once ,he chewed the baseboards so if u dont mind stuff like that then that is great but if u do then the crate is perfect,and like i said before ALL DOGS ARE DIFFERENT,we cant all be blessed with a perfect dog that doesnt need to be crated......

[sammiec]

Originally Posted by Prin

but more people I know with uncontrollable dogs crate them. The ones who give them free reign on the house are confident in their training skills and their dogproofing, and it usually shows in a good way.

Originally Posted by Prin

Shoes cost what? $100? How long do sofas last? 7 years? My dog is worth more to me than that and he'll outlive most of that furniture. Maybe I'm alone in this, but he's a puppy and it's just stuff.

Originally Posted by Prin

Why don't cat owners crate cats when they scratch the furniture when they're at work? It seems to me when you have a cat with nails, chances are you have a few claw marks in the furniture in the beginning.

Originally Posted by Prin

What about geriatric dogs? They tend to get incontinent. Will the craters crate then too, so the dog won't ruin the carpet? I guess it depends on your patience level and your tolerance for mistakes...

I even called Prin on the fact that the posts were soundsing very antagonistic and Prin repsonded:

Originally Posted by Prin

I agree-- I was being a tad sarcastic... I totally don't expect a nice house with two big doggies. The black tumbleweeds roll all over...

Prin says that they have only seen bad usage of crates, by people that don't care for their animals. By creating this thread it was to see what others think about crating.. I don't see where the antagonizing comments are required.. but it seems that every post is very sarcastic. For the future, if you're looking for information rather then an argument leave out the scarcasim.

[Lucky Rescue]

Quote:
I'm so glad you're giving this doggy another chance. What about putting him in a smaller room, like a bathroom when you're not home, instead of a hard to clean basement? You can even buy a baby gate so he won't feel as confined because he'll see out.

How does this differ from a crate?

To me, it would be like the difference between me spending the day locked in my closet, or spending the day locked in my bedroom. I would certainly choose the latter.

[heidiho]

It seems like alot of people compare putting a dog in a crate to sticking bamboo shoots under your nails,my god a dog could have it so much worse than being in a crate i just dont get it,the horrible things people do to animals and how they treat them,if the worse a dog has it is being in a crate while u HAVE to work,i dont see that as cruel and unusual punishment.....AS long as the dog is well cared for,played with,loved and fed...................

[mona_b]

Originally Posted by heidiho

It seems like alot of people compare putting a dog in a crate to sticking bamboo shoots under your nails,my god a dog could have it so much worse than being in a crate i just dont get it,

Actually no we are not heidi.Would you like to be locked up for 8 hours and confined to a small area that you can't really stretch your legs,or play around then be let out for a few hours,then straight back in there for the night?I know I wouldn't.Here is something to think about.Before crating came around,how do you think people managed to have raised pups?And I'm talking about working families.Because as a child growing up with them,there was no such thing as crating.And my parents managed training them with no problems.

Honestly,I am not trying to argue about this.I'm just stating my opinion.

[Prin]

How does it work with crating? Like the first day with an uncrated dog, you come home with the dog and there are blankets or a dog bed in some corner and eventually you show the dog where they are and where the water is and stuff and that's it. What do you do with a crate? You bring the dog home and what do you do to match him up with the crate? I guess puppies would go in it voluntarily to explore but what about older adopted doggies? I've never crated, and I just want to know the process...

[happycats]

Originally Posted by Prin

but what about older adopted doggies? I've never crated, and I just want to know the process...

Why would you want to crate an older adopted dog ??
They should already be over the chewing stage.........I don't see the point, in crating an older dog.

[Lucky Rescue]

Would you like to be locked up for 8 hours and confined to a small area that you can't really stretch your legs,or play around then be let out for a few hours,then straight back in there for the night? I know I wouldn't.Here is something to think about. Before crating came around,how do you think people managed to have raised pups?And I'm talking about working families.Because as a child growing up with them,there was no such thing as crating.And my parents managed training them with no problems

You must have grown up in the Dark Ages, like I did. When most moms were home during the day, and puppies were raised like family members. No one heard of crates, and I never saw one til I was grown and met someone with showdogs.

And as for this "den" thing - not ONE top predator adult canine in the wild EVER spends any time in a den, expect for females whelping a litter.

I do have a crate, but only cats have ever been it.

[heidiho]

That is like saying what did we do before computers, or cell phones,i am just saying for myself personally it was great,i would not like to locked up for 8 hours either,and i said i think that does suck,but not necassarily CRUELTY to an animal....I let Damien have run of my apt for a couple of hours once,which was my fault cause he was only 4 months old,but he chewed everything,yes i know that breed gets bored or whatever..But by no means do i think if u HAVE to crate your dog while you work is that cruel,cruel to me is chaining them outside all day when it is hot as hell or freezin..Like i said before he would go in there at night on his own to sleep,now if he hated it so much because i put him in there for a few hours a day,i really dont think he would of gone in there on his own when he didnt need to.. Just my opinion

[meowzart]

Lest we forget - these are animals - and we are humans trying to domesticate and fit them into our indoor lifestyles. If we all could live in the country and yes be stay at home moms - no we wouldn't need to crate!

However, we seek the BEST way we can to be able to fit an animal - in this case a dog - into an unnatural way of living i.e. inside with a family. Dogs weren't designed to do this you know! So we could take it a step furthur and say it is cruel to keep a dog inside - my gosh it's cruel to keep a dog in a yard! They should all live on farms and work.

I don't think we need to be hissy about the issue - if you don't like it don't do it. But if you find it works - fine! Just stop with the 'i'm right you're wrong stuff'

Another note - vets have told me it is a huge help if a dog knows about being in a crate when/if they have to be in the hospital.

I don't have any rooms I can block off either and locking a dog in a closed bedroom/bathroom has in my experience always led to destruction of the floor and door. One night we 'forgot' to put Gemma in her crate when we left for a couple of hours, and she ate my kids homework - REALLY!!!

[heidiho]

Meowzart, ditto with that,Crate if u like it,if u dont like it dont crate it is pretty simple..Jeez i think it is getting just a little ridiculous,you would think we were debating whether to beat your dog or not,i really dont get it,not all people can stay home and raise puppies or dogs or whatever./.........

[wjranch]

I worked around the crate issue this way.... Instead of the crate I use an 8' round exercise pen.. 4' high, wire like a crate. My pup HATES it of course, he has confinment issues and a working need to keep me in sight at all times. kinda cute, kinda a pain in the butt
I feed him in there, and give him KONG toys filled with 'yummies' to play with in there. Only when I have to leave the house do I close the door to it. He screams blue murder, but, at least I know he's not chewing wires, or doorways , etc,,etc,,etc It does take up a good portion of living room real estate, but, it works for me. And although he doesn't like it, I know I could never put him in a wire box style crate. he would kill himself trying to get out!
I can post a pic of the setup if anyone is interested....jsut let me know

[heidiho]

I would love to see it

[wjranch]

Here it is.

[heidiho]

My neighbors that have rat terrier and min pin have the same thing,they ;love it,that is a good idea...

[Shamrock]

I have read this thread with great interest.
I too had never heard of dog crates until more recent times, and never needing one, didnt know a thing about the the "pros and cons".
My son and daughter-in-law's new puppy is coming tomorrow( mini-doxie) and the question of getting a crate is still "out there".
As she's at home full time, she thought she may not need this, I tend to agree. But - she can assess how things are going once the puppy is here.

She asked me this, though - to which I have no idea.
Would a mesh play-pen work as a crate for a tiny dog such as this?
Or would this not be suitable.. possibly chewed?

[wjranch]

Shamrock-
I wouldn't worry about the chewing, I would worry about the housebreaking though......too much space in the kennel will encourage the pup to use a corner for sleeping in, and a corner for bathroom. Not the best way to housetrain....... with that said....
partition the pen and all should be fine........ with the exception that there is no door for the dog to go in on her own. Not the best setup, If you crate your puppy, you will eventually want to be able to say "go to bed" and the dog goes in the crate on her own.. that might be something to think about also.

They may think twice about the crate after they wake up to a few 'accidents' on the floor in the morning. It really is a god send when it comes to housebreaking a young puppy.

Good luck with the new babe mini doxie?? too flippin' cute

[meowzart]

Instead of the crate I use an 8' round exercise pen

That's a great idea too. Gosh I wouldn't crate an animal with confinement issues - that WOULD be cruel. Good for you for finding an alternative.

The other thing about chewing is the safety thing - my gosh do you know how much damage it could do to an animal to ingest baseboards, paint, couch parts - homework paper and maybe staples, socks, underwear...they could die, or need (very expensive) surgery.

IF you have a chewer - and not all dogs are so those with dogs that don't chew won't 'get this' - a crate or pen can keep them safe.

Shamrock - I think a mesh play pen could be trouble if you have a chewer...just be careful with that.