I need some fast, helpful advise please! - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans

14+kitties · #1 May 8th, 2008, 04:22 PM

As you all know, I have a couple of feral cats who have their litters here. There is one in one of my greenhouses. She has the kittens behind a bunch of trays and such. The kittens are coming out to play. I had all three of them today. I got hissed at by two but the third one was great. And so very very tiny. OMG, so tiny!!
My question is.....has anyone taken kittens from their mom at this age? They will be 5 weeks on Sunday. I know it is better to leave them with mom for as long as possible but I am afraid she will move them again and it will be a while before I can find them. The greenhouse has to be open now to let air in or plants will die so she has lots of opportunity to get out with them. They are eating cat food and I have replacement milk here for them as well. What do you guys think? Should I take them now or take a chance she won't move them?
I guess the proper word would have been opinions, not advice.

BeagleMum · #2 May 8th, 2008, 04:28 PM

My friend took in a kitten who was about 5 weeks old, it was a stray and every morning when she came outside, the kitten was on her back step meowing. After 2 days of feeding him lunch meat chicken (I know, don't ask

) she went out and bought some cat food and the rest is history. It is not the ideal situation but if the kitten is that small, it may be the best thing for him.

14+kitties · #3 May 8th, 2008, 04:41 PM

Thanks BeagleMum. I know I said the one little one was tiny but wow, is he solid! Mom is taking good care of them. That's why I am hesitating.

BeagleMum · #4 May 8th, 2008, 04:47 PM

Well, to me, if his life is not in danger, I don't know if I would rush to take him away. I mean, just a few more weeks with mom can make a big difference. I would try to keep him socialized if you can, just so he doesn't turn wild on you.

badger · #5 May 8th, 2008, 05:47 PM

Tough call. Is she likely to move them again, away from the food?

happycats · #6 May 8th, 2008, 05:56 PM

The longer they are without human contact the more feral they will become making it very difficult to adopt out. So I think getting them a home ASAP would be the best thing for them.

14+kitties · #7 May 8th, 2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger

Tough call. Is she likely to move them again, away from the food?

See badger, that's the issue. I think what I am going to do is to leave them there, close the greenhouse up tight at night, and if she moves them it will only be to another spot in the greenhouse. I will be able to find them then. The biggest issue is that I want to get these guys early enough that I can get them used to people. My other guys are so used to only me they run from everyone else. :sad: because they are such loveable farts. I am going to give them another week to grow and then get them. Not ideal either but

happycats · #8 May 8th, 2008, 06:00 PM

Handle them as often as you can, even if they hiss and growl, you have to handle them, even if you have to use gloves, that's the only way they won't go completely wild.

meg4050 · #9 May 8th, 2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

See badger, that's the issue. I think what I am going to do is to leave them there, close the greenhouse up tight at night, and if she moves them it will only be to another spot in the greenhouse. I will be able to find them then. The biggest issue is that I want to get these guys early enough that I can get them used to people. My other guys are so used to only me they run from everyone else. :sad: because they are such loveable farts. I am going to give them another week to grow and then get them. Not ideal either but

Sounds like you know what you're doing, trust your instincts! I think closing them in at night is your best option so they don't get too far from the food. Will there be pictures of these guys too??

kashtin's kin · #10 May 8th, 2008, 06:09 PM

As discussed above, it sounds as if you are in a bit of a 'rock and hard place' situation. On the other hand, things aren't dire and urgent at the moment...obviously there are pros and cons to each side, and no absolute RIGHT decision.

As you are on the spot, and have dealt with ferals, I'd say go with your gut instinct. Your idea of compromising, and trying to scoop the kittens in a week will hopefully work. With my feral kittens of '06, I wasn't able to nab them till they were 4-5 months, and was fortunate to have them all 'domesticate' fairly easily (I'd been visiting with them from a distance for a few months).

My two outdoor grown ferals didn't accept me till they were over a year in age; they're really lovey-dovey now, but only with me...largely because I'm the only person who's outside a lot (pony chores really complement feral gentling!!).

Good luck with this litter, and keep us posted.

p.s. sorry, don't recall if you've covered the spay issue in an earlier post...will you be able to hopefully livetrap or ? the momcat for spaying? I could lend my livetrap if needed...

14+kitties · #11 May 8th, 2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kashtin's kin

As discussed above, it sounds as if you are in a bit of a 'rock and hard place' situation. On the other hand, things aren't dire and urgent at the moment...obviously there are pros and cons to each side, and no absolute RIGHT decision.

As you are on the spot, and have dealt with ferals, I'd say go with your gut instinct. Your idea of compromising, and trying to scoop the kittens in a week will hopefully work. With my feral kittens of '06, I wasn't able to nab them till they were 4-5 months, and was fortunate to have them all 'domesticate' fairly easily (I'd been visiting with them from a distance for a few months).

My two outdoor grown ferals didn't accept me till they were over a year in age; they're really lovey-dovey now, but only with me...largely because I'm the only person who's outside a lot (pony chores really complement feral gentling!!).

Good luck with this litter, and keep us posted.

p.s. sorry, don't recall if you've covered the spay issue in an earlier post...will you be able to hopefully livetrap or ? the momcat for spaying? I could lend my livetrap if needed...

Thanks kashtin's kin. I am going with my gut. Leaving them there with mom, hoping she doesn't move them or find a way to get out with them. I have been dealing with these ferals for almost 2 years now. Very wiley at avoiding the trap but thanks to tips I have got from here and the TCR I have more tricks up my sleeve for when the kittens are weaned for catching moms. As for fixing......I am actually taking #19 in on Sunday to get fixed. This is another feral who managed to get caught. I am down to 3 other ferals now plus one I managed to get into the house with her 3 kittens.

Happycats......... been there, done that. All of my kitties were born ferals.

Meg......patience hon, there will be. Soon.

Jim Hall · #12 May 8th, 2008, 07:35 PM

i would say leave her and close it up at night Let mama feel safe where she is for a few days and then start to handle the kits they will come out

As far as the kits that run from veryone exceoot you I have found thet having other peeps around helps that out and if the same people drop by the kits will eventually interact with them

14+kitties · #13 May 8th, 2008, 07:44 PM

Thanks Jim. Just what I am going to do. Actually, I prefer the other ones are a little shy around other people. I make sure people go to see them when I have company and once the greenhouse is open next week there will be lots of people around. I just don't want the kitties being tempted to try to climb their fence to get to people. Too many vehicles around. They aren't going anywhere so I am not too worried about their interaction. It's the newer ones I am going to try to adopt that I want better socialized. The others I am kind of attached to.

Jim Hall · #14 May 8th, 2008, 07:54 PM

as long as thier are people aroung they will get socialised i think a lot of it just has to do with small animakls getting used to us great big noisy clumsy and smelly humans

meg4050 · #15 May 8th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

Meg......patience hon, there will be. Soon.

Sorry!

Frenchy · #16 May 8th, 2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14+kitties

See badger, that's the issue. I think what I am going to do is to leave them there,

I think this is a good decision

Quote:

Originally Posted by meg4050

Will there be pictures of these guys too??

Pressure pressure

krdahmer · #17 May 8th, 2008, 09:27 PM

Sorry I didn't see this earlier, I took my feral mama's kittens (Fagan and his sister and two brothers) at exactly 5 weeks. It was a good choice, I left Asker's litter a little longer and was then only able to catch her. They were all very feral, and mama kept moving them, so I had to snatch them when they came for food or were caught napping in the tree. (When I finally caught another from Asker's litter it was with a trap and very traumatic for us both.) Fagan and his brothers and sister are all great cats, I gave them a bit of cat milk along with some wet food at first, but they got onto dry food pretty quick and are all healthy happy cats now. I also made sure to let different people of all ages hold them and interact with them while they were in my spare room... I think that helped them to be more social and less scared of new people. If they are already 5 weeks and you want them to be completely comfortable around people, I wouldn't wait too much longer, and make sure you go out to play with them often (like we'd have to twist your arm to play with kittens!

)

And once again big

for you the

!!!

clm · #18 May 8th, 2008, 09:58 PM

I know you've had loads more experience with this kind of thing, but both times my parents had ferels give birth and raise their kittens, it was around 5 weeks of age when the females up and left. No chance to get the female spayed. I don't know if they came into heat again, or if they felt they'd done their job and it was time to move on. Both times they were in a heated garage (they selected the garage, they weren't moved to it), no cars, lots of food and water.
I'd love to see pics of the kittens. Nothing cuter than kittens.

Cindy

14+kitties · #19 May 8th, 2008, 10:20 PM

Thanks everyone for the fast replies. I knew I could count on you all.

So my game plan.........for the next week I want to keep an eye on the kitties. Not hard seeing as I spend around 10 hours a day over there working. They are 5 weeks on Sunday. I don't want to take them before then for sure. Then they are coming into the house

so they can be around people and other kitties and the dogs. Should be fun. At around 8 to 10 weeks they will be going up for adoption. I will make sure to get pics. Lots of pics. I am going to need to start burning them onto discs to free up comp space soon.

If anyone hears of someone looking for a kitten..........

There is the other momma who hasn't brought her kittens down from the top of the garage yet. I went up there the other day but can't find them. She has them well hidden. Then tonight I saw the other sister who I thought had disappeared a couple of months ago. She probably has a litter around too. The fun begins.
Clm - the moms had the kittens in our garage last year. For some reason this year they have avoided it. Probably because I cleaned it out for the kittens last year and then hubby filled it with his stuff again. The greenhouse is heated. And I put old towels down for them to lie on. From past experience these moms don't usually take off until the kittens are around 7 weeks. I will have them before then.
And krdahmer - I never play with the kittens. Don't know what gave you that idea.

growler~GateKeeper · #20 May 9th, 2008, 12:12 AM

Any chance your currently inside the house feral mama would take on a couple more kitties if you had to nab them early? Could you nab the kittens, take them inside while shutting greenhouse mama in the greenhouse, live trap her for spaying before she takes off again?

14+kitties · #21 May 9th, 2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by growler

Any chance your currently inside the house feral mama would take on a couple more kitties if you had to nab them early? Could you nab the kittens, take them inside while shutting greenhouse mama in the greenhouse, live trap her for spaying before she takes off again?

Great idea. One I thought of yesterday. I brought a couple of the kittens to the house to show hubby and momma reacted very violently toward them. Hissing, trying to scratch at them. She was in her crate so was unable to harm them.
I am going to try to livetrap mom of course. But she needs at least 2 weeks after kittens are weaned to dry milk. The vets won't do them before. I am determined to get them all this year!

Love4himies · #22 May 9th, 2008, 06:28 AM

That is such a hard call, 14+, the kittens are better off with momma, but if you want to socialize these kittens, you are better off taking them away. How is momma when you are close to the kittens? Alot of what kittens learn is from momma's reaction. If momma is OK with you, then kittens won't be as afraid of humans.

The other issue with suddently taking them completely away is the risk of momma's health and her becoming engorged with milk (sorry can't remember what is called, but was warned about this by my vet).

14+kitties · #23 May 9th, 2008, 06:41 AM

L4H - that's another thing I thought of. I don't want mama getting sick either.

As someone mentioned, I am between the proverbial rock and the hard place. I am in the greenhouse a lot so that's great. The radio has been on in there 24/7 for about the last 4 months so they know the sound of humans (and good/bad music) and that is good.

Momma hisses a little when I go near the kittens but she stops quickly. Last time I touched them she moved them though. That's the whole issue. I am just hoping she hasn't found an escape route to take them outside. I will find out very soon 'cause that's where I am heading.

Love4himies · #24 May 9th, 2008, 06:45 AM

Can you approach them with some canned food smeared on your hands (I know sounds gross) but that will associate food with humans.

to you, so hard to know what to do. You are an absolute

!

chico2 · #25 May 9th, 2008, 07:11 AM

14+.I have absolutely zilch experience with feral cats and kittens,but just reading these posts,your sheer determination to save these little lives,leaves me in awe

and look at all the kitty-people giving advice,even Kashtins Kin our other resdident feral kitty mom...great stuff

Good Luck with the babies

ancientgirl · #26 May 9th, 2008, 07:35 AM

I have no advice to give you, since I have little experience with ferals. But I know whatever you do will be helpful.

14+kitties · #27 May 9th, 2008, 11:37 AM

well, so far, so good. She is still there with them. I held all three of the kittens this morning with very little hissing on her part. She even came out of her hiding spot and ventured close. She has done this before. I think protecting her kittens. She arched her back a little like she wanted a pet so I petted her too. Not much. When she jumped away I let her go, then she came back for a little more. I have a teenie tiny little scratch on my hand from her when I didn't move my hand back fast enough. I looked after it.

I am worried about her. She breathes really funny. Like she has something caught in her throat. I have noticed this before so it's not new. I guess if I ever manage to convince her to go to the vet I can get them to check her for me.

I think I should be able to get the kittens with no problem. 2 of them don't run when I go near. The other one does but not far. She scoots under a skid and peaks out. So cute. Oh yeah, 2 boys, 1 girl.

Meg.....where are you?

This little one is Tiny Tim. I have a very strong suspicion he will be a house cat right here. Even hubby checked him a couple of times through the night.
He is probably about 6 inches from head to tail. So tiny.

Yep, I know, I fell hard.