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Old September 14th, 2018, 01:05 AM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
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Dietary Advice

Hi everyone.
I was a pretty regular poster here in the past when my dog, Millie, had numerous issues. Sadly, I lost my precious girl on August 3rd. She was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney disease on February 7th and then with a Nerve Sheath Tumour on her spine in addition to IVDD on March 17th. She fought a brave fight and I fought with her, but while we won many battles along the way, we couldn't win the war. I thank everyone on here who helped in any way when I posted seeking advice - you will never know how much your help meant to me and, in turn, to Millie. I miss her so much every single day.

However, I am now having some issues with a 7 years old boy Fonzie. He is a cocker spaniel/shih tzu mix and is in overall good health, but there are issues with his digestive system.
For background purposes, he had a case of HGE in August/September 2017. He was hospitalised but no cause was every established and he recovered fully. In June of this year he had his Parvo, Bordatella and Distemper shots - they were spread out over a couple of days and I gave him Adored Beast Anti-Vaccinosis during and after the vaccines. In July of this year he developed Gastroenteritis (both vomiting and diarrhea with a lot of mucus) and was hospitalised again. He had extensive bloodwork, ultrasounds, x-rays etc., but again no cause was found. He was treated for parasites (although none were found in his fecal tests)
This time, following his release from hospital, he did not recover fully and Millie's passing obviously caused him a great deal of stress that did not help him.
His main issue is mucus in his stool - a great deal of mucus. There is no blood thankfully. But each bowel movement contained almost half mucus with the remaining actual stool coated in mucus.
At this point I was feeding him a home cooked diet - one batch was beef/sweet potato/rice and the other was chicken/pasta/broccoli. This diet was supplemented with calcium and Vit E daily, Vit D twice weekly, B-50 half daily, Nusentia Probiotic Miracle with each meal.
I should add that Fonzie had successfully eaten a home cooked diet for the last couple of years.
At a recheck with the Internal Medicine Specialist, who examined a sample of his stool, it was suggested that he have a Endoscopy when we had sufficient time to come to terms with Millie's loss. At that point Fonzie has stopped eating completely in the mornings but would eat his regular quantity of food between 5p.m. and bedtime, so the Specialist wanted to see if this new development would settle down.
The mucus continued and his stool was permanently soft (not diarrhea) and he had two isolated episodes of vomiting - one after drinking about 3 - 4 ounces of Goats Milk.
So I decided to try to give his digestive system a break to see if it would settle down. I began feeding him Royal Canin High Energy canned food about 2.5 weeks ago. The mucus is gone - but the stool remains soft and he poops numerous times a day. His breath stinks on this food. His second bout of vomiting was in the early stages of eating this food and it came up covered in slime not long after he had eaten it. He hasn't vomited since, is eating only this food up to 3 times a day and is eating earlier in the day although not at breakfast as he always did in the past.
I have postponed his Endoscopy until we have another consultation with the Internal Medicine Specialist on September 21st. I want to hear her views on why the mucus is gone but the stool remains soft and overly frequent. I obviously don't want to put him through a procedure that he may not require, particularly one that requires an anesthetic.
Can anyone throw any light on what may be going on with him? Other than the HGE and Gastroenteritis episodes a year apart, he has never been sick and was always a really great eater. But it has not escaped my notice that both illnesses related to his digestive system.
I would appreciate any suggestions, advice, comments etc that I can bring forward to the Internal Medicine Specialist. I would also hugely appreciate any advice on what I could/should feed him other than the veterinary canned food, which smells awful and has a very undesirable ingredient list.
Apologies for the ultra-long post and thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
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Old September 15th, 2018, 09:13 PM
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Sorry to hear of all the troubles your having.

The copious amounts of mucus sounds to me like there might be a food intolerance happening as well. Both chicken and beef are high allergic ingredients. Have you tried a novel protein Fonzie hasn't had before like goat or kangaroo or rabbit?
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Old September 17th, 2018, 01:53 AM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growler~GateKeeper View Post
Sorry to hear of all the troubles your having.

The copious amounts of mucus sounds to me like there might be a food intolerance happening as well. Both chicken and beef are high allergic ingredients. Have you tried a novel protein Fonzie hasn't had before like goat or kangaroo or rabbit?
I haven't tried any of the proteins you have suggested, but am more than willing to do so if I can get them. I cook for him so getting those proteins may be a challenge - but I don't know until I try. The only other protein I have tried is turkey - is that similar to chicken in terms of being an allergen? Would pork be a possible choice for him?
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 06:28 PM
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Pork has high fat content and it takes a longer time for dogs to digest - both of those reasons would make me stay away from it for a dog that has digestion issues. Pork liver is also used in a lot of the canned foods including veterinary diets, even when there's no other pork in the food and it may just be listed as "liver".

A year ago my cat was in the vet hospital she was given a specific veterinary formula canned food while there. The clinic knows she's allergic to pork, so they were careful what she was given. The day after she started to have a reaction after coming back from the clinic. I called that veterinary brand about that one specific cat formula and asked what the "liver" was specifically, they told me for that formula it was pork liver. Pork wasn't mentioned on the label at all. So you do have to be very careful about not only what's on the label but also what's not on the label.

Some animals that are reactive to chicken may be reactive to turkey where others aren't reactive to it.
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Old September 17th, 2018, 11:00 PM
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Hello:

If you are going to follow a strongly regimented diet as indicated by growler~GateKeeper make sure to stay strictly to the diet.

Have family and friends knowledgeable on what you are trying to do so that they won't offer the dog treats or give scraps from the table.

I was having the same problem as growler~GateKeeper a few years ago with a kitty and it would get into cooking residue from chicken and other meat products, which upset her system tremendously.

Something else that might be worth thinking about would be bison. Where you are it should be relatively easy to come by, I would think.

Any pics of Fonzie you can share??????
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Old September 18th, 2018, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazanne View Post
I want to hear her views on why the mucus is gone but the stool remains soft and overly frequent.
Usually formulas like this one the ingredients have been processed in a way to be easier to digest, often times the body doesn't recognize the protein or carbohydrate because it's a much smaller molecule. This one has a couple of fibers in it so it's not lacking in "bulk", why he's having soft frequent stools leads back to the potential for food intolerance or some other imbalance in the digestive system.

I would bring up the possibility of a food intolerance when you speak to the Internal Specialist as they deal with the end result of that all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
Something else that might be worth thinking about would be bison. Where you are it should be relatively easy to come by, I would think.
Good suggestion Reg, I would just make sure it's actually pure Bison not a crossbreed of Bison & Beef = Beefalo, in case there is an issue with Beef
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  #7  
Old September 19th, 2018, 12:17 AM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
Hello:

If you are going to follow a strongly regimented diet as indicated by growler~GateKeeper make sure to stay strictly to the diet.

Have family and friends knowledgeable on what you are trying to do so that they won't offer the dog treats or give scraps from the table.

I was having the same problem as growler~GateKeeper a few years ago with a kitty and it would get into cooking residue from chicken and other meat products, which upset her system tremendously.

Something else that might be worth thinking about would be bison. Where you are it should be relatively easy to come by, I would think.

Any pics of Fonzie you can share??????
I have loads of pics of the little guy - even though he hates the camera!!! But my tired brain is unable to figure out how to upload them at the moment - sad I know!
Bison is a good idea. I hadn't considered it prior to this as I was worried it may be too rich.
I made him a batch of food tonight from Lew Olsons book - 'Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs'. I used the Low Glycemic/Low Fat recipe (cooked) which includes beef, butternut squash, broccoli, liver and plain 0% yogurt. I gave him some and he certainly likes it - but whether it likes him or not remains to be seen.
I really can't believe that I am having problems feeding Fonzie - he was always such a great dog to eat and loved his food. He never had a digestive issue until the HGE last year, which he recovered fully from and returned to eating normally. But whatever gastric upset he got in June of this year has changed him completely and it worries me a lot. I am so scared that there may be something wrong with him.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 12:36 AM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
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I would bring up the possibility of a food intolerance when you speak to the Internal Specialist as they deal with the end result of that all the time.


I will definitely do that - it's on my list already.
He has never had an issue with beef in the past. I have just made him a small batch of food containing beef (beef pieces very well cooked as opposed to ground beef) to see if the mucus comes back. I know it may sound like a radical move but it may answer that question on intolerance to beef. However, I'd be wary of doing the same with chicken as there is usually a higher incidence of intolerance to that.

I never really find vets, even Specialist vets, all that helpful when it comes to diet related issues. This particular Specialist has a dog of her own that has IBD and she feeds a specific Rayne canned and dry food. I really don't want to feed Fonzie a processed diet - I want to cook for him so that I know what he's getting and that the ingredient quality is top class.

I have hated every single time I've given him the Royal Canin High Energy - it stinks, his breath stinks from it and the ingredients are not good. But, you're right about it being easier to digest as the mucus is gone completely from his stool and I fully get your point on why his stool remains soft.

His appointment with the Specialist is on this Friday afternoon, which is why I cooked the beef/butternut squash/broccoli/yogurt recipe for him this evening. If it's likely to cause a problem I will know before his appointment. He certainly loves the taste and I gave him some with the High Energy in an effort to transition his slowly, but he didn't want it with the High Energy in the bowl. I will try it with the High Energy again tomorrow and, if he refuses it, I will just give him a small amount of the new recipe and see how it goes. It's Low Glycemic/Low Fat so I am really hoping its successful.
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Old September 29th, 2018, 12:58 AM
Mauren Mauren is offline
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Mucus in the feces may appear in the aftermath of the transferred streas, food intolerance and feed change.
Diet has a great influence on the consistency of the stool. It depends on the amount of fiber in the diet. Therefore, one food ideally suited to one dog may not be suitable for another. Too much fiber in the diet can lead to diarrhea or vice versa to constipation, for each dog it is individual and depends on the specific case.
Perhaps the dog has a digestive system disease, then the diet is prescribed by a specialist after the examination, everything is very individual. Bless you.
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Old October 8th, 2018, 08:43 PM
Shazanne Shazanne is offline
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Thank you so much Mauren.
He is having a colonoscopy and an endoscopy in early November - I feels it is probably the best course to take to get to the root of this problem.
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