Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > General Forum for cats and dogs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old March 11th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats
Why would you want to crate an older adopted dog ??
They should already be over the chewing stage.........I don't see the point, in crating an older dog.
I meant older like 6 months and still chewing or a year and still chewing...
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old March 11th, 2005, 05:20 PM
melanie's Avatar
melanie melanie is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,824
thank you everyone, what an informed and openly (nicely sorta) debated topic, it thirlls me to bits as this is why i love this place, we can talk it out and educate and im spit spot tickled pink that no one got cranky with me, luv yas.

ok, now i do to an extent understand yoru reasons for crating, toileting etc. i am now wondering what the average home on north US is like, do you ahve yards or is it mainly small spaces?? just wondering. but im still not much of a fan ofthe method, jsut because i never heard of it and i have a lovely dog so i really think you can train without it, but its the ndividual i suppose.


now a bit of background, i am australian, its near impossible to rent apartments here with a dog, it is mainly houses with yards you get. so i always have a yard. now charlie girl did chew when she wa a pup (only heard of crates in past 2 yrs, she is now 9yo). but it was strictly related to seperation anxiety and my inexperience with dogs, very inexperienced. but we sorted that out by the time she was 4mths and she has chewed only once or twice since, and they were all food related, ie they contained food so she had a go.

in my world a dog is equal, they earn that right just by being alive, that is the right of all animals on this earth, just because some of those animals can hold and fire guns does not diminish the rights of other animals, i live by this belief. .charlie is a central member to my family, she is a loved family member with all rights of the rest of us. my family would never work without her, i love her too much. in my house you either respect her as an equal member or you are not welcome in the house. i honestly am so close and inlove with her that she makes my world right, i cant live without my baba girl, we are two spirits that were meant to be. and she is treated with all the kindness that such a member deserves, i sigh like a young lover when i look into her eyes, i am truly spell bound by the undying love of my beloved girl. my human family, sisters etc treat her this way as well, she is their family, they openly love her too. it just how we treat our life companions is all.

so for those reason she can do as she pleases, but she is in no way arrogant or without manners and i am without a doubt top dog in this pack. she has exceptional manners of which i am very proud, i do not tolerate friends or family members without manners, her manners are so good that we hitchhiked together for years when she was a pup, and without a problem, in fact her manners are better than mine. she has also been in many share houses, with other animals of all shapes and sizes too, and ehr manners prevail. she cna walk off lead without even considering ever mving away from her beloved human and she fulfills all or most of my requests in any environment. she recently won at a dog show and had a great time socialising with all, not a hair flew that day. so there is no real question of non crated dogs having poor manners its jsut training, and what i said before can be repeated for the dogs i know also, i have never physically met a crate trained dog or an owner who uses the technique, so us aussie must be doing something right.

charlie hangs out basically. she has a huge yard and house, the door is open at all times when a human is home and she loves her yard, she will be out there by choice half the day sniffing and chasing the skinks (tiny lizards, she has never caught one, too slow ). she does not destroy anythign, she is safe in our well fenced yard and she has a huge sheltered area with beds and toys and everythnig else, she is a chilled out girl. and is cool anywhere, she is happy to hang in another persons yard anyday, she loves her auties the best and she has done this since a babe, i think it comes down to what you teach them, dogs are jsut so smart and canbe taught to be happy in so many situations, it comes down to yourwn planning perhaps, what you do and what best suits your environment.

as far as robbers and fires go, when my girl is loose she is accessible by anyone who would be trying to rescue her if they called her, dogs are smart, but she likes to be in the yard when im out so she could escape easier. robbers, well if someone wants to rob us i will give them all our stuff as a prize, my girl loves to protect her things and her home so if someone smashed in a window i wish them the best of luck, i have seen her in action, and if were together, well oh boy.

so those factors i have considered yes.

but i can see how such a tool could be useful, but also could be extensivly abused. but then that is the same for all dog tools and methods, they can be great or horrific, jsut depends whos using it..

thank you lovely ppl, great chatting to you all.
__________________
REDUCE, RETHINK, REUSE, RECYCLE.. "We only Conserve what we love, We love only what we understand, we understand only what were taught"- David Suzuki....NO WAR.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old March 11th, 2005, 05:42 PM
topaz_n29's Avatar
topaz_n29 topaz_n29 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 94
to crate or not to crate

I put my 9 week shih Tzu in a crate for the nite..to sleep..he is right by my bed..as soon as he sees me put my pj's on he goes in.
When i go out which is 3x a week..for 2 and 1/2 hours..hi is in the compartment bathroom..board up and crate in there (left open)..his toys and paper and water.He is doing just fine..we have 3 other dogs, he cant see them but can hear them..i nite crated all my dogs..for the nite..even my shep/rottie..till they were completely trained..so i think ..yes it is a matter of choice. My shep. now sleeps in bed w/me lol..80 lbs. of him and the Shih will too..after his training is complete. I am retired..but i go out the 3x aweek for my workout. Hubby is also retired..but does work now and then.
This my thoughts and input. Thx for listening..Top.
__________________
The Best Way For A Father To Show Love To His Daughters ..Is To Respect Their Mother
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old March 11th, 2005, 11:46 PM
CyberKitten's Avatar
CyberKitten CyberKitten is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Brunswick - Nova Scotia
Posts: 4,852
Wow Mel, that post was so long I forget the question. Kidding! I sometimes go off on tangents myself, lol

Most of us live in Canada I think but there is not much difference in archirtecture between the two countries - except that in the north, a home must be really sturdy and have lots of insulation to witstand the cold. (I have a brick house so that works for me - now I need new windows one of these days, lol). Homes in Florida where my parents winter tend to be well made but a/c is more of a concern and constructing for hurricane season comes into play. There are many regional variation though - the adobes in states like NM (seems to me there is someone here from AZ or NM?) for example.

I have a large yard and a swimming pool which would be fine for a dog and you should see the hair that ends up in the strainer after my brother's chocloate lab has jumped in the pool. I don't think YY will be jumping in though, lol (and she is an indoor cat, will be out on a leash only!) I live in a subdivision where most people have fairly large homes (they have become more in vogue in the last decade) and much property.

The cities in the Maritimes where I live have parks that allow dogs and their walkers but it is not unusual to see neighbours walking their dogs on the sidewalk. It is a pet friendly neighbourhood for the most part but everyone has lots of space too.

Can I ask what a "share house" is (a rooming house?) - like a dorm. I went to Australia 3 yrs ago (seems like last yr) to give a lecture at the Univ of Western Au and no one used that term there or at least I never heard it. Or I heard it and it did not register.

Hope this long windedc reply sort of answers your query!
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old March 12th, 2005, 01:09 AM
mona_b's Avatar
mona_b mona_b is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hamilton Ont
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyRescue


You must have grown up in the Dark Ages, like I did.
Yup.....

No one is getting hissy here.We are just voicing(typing) our opinions.It has nothing to do with the I'm right your wrong thing.

Like I have said over and over again,I have nothing against crating.What I have a problem with is having a young puppy crated ALL day without being let out to get some exercise,pee breaks and even fed.Young puppies should be fed 2-3xs a day.Not once.And there is no way say an 8 week old puppy can hold it in for 8 hours.
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours."
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old March 12th, 2005, 01:53 AM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
I believe somewhat what melanie said about the doggie being equal.

When I was very little (living in the laurentians), we inherited a newfie and my dad, being a single dad, couldn't be watching us all the time so he would put the newf in there with us (or out there with us) and we'd play alone and the newf would protect us. Once she killed a stray dog that came onto our property and approached us (I was too young to remember). My whole life, my dad travelled and we had dogs to take care of us. They even protected us from our babysitters. I'm sure that people feel like their dog is part of the family whether they crate or not, but the way I grew up my dogs were my brothers and sisters. They were my parents and my responsibility. My dad still calls his dog my brother. That's just how I grew up and that is why my dad got us dogs. He might not have treated them great sometimes but he wasn't there 90% of the time. And that 90% was when I grew to respect dogs and learned their motivations, needs and desires.

Yes, in a pack, there are submissive ones and dominant ones but everyone is entitled to have an equally good, happy life. I believe that since I chose to have these doggies, it is my responsibility to have no doubt that I gave them a home that is better than anybody else who might have gone to the SPCA that day or the people who gave them up in the first place.

The thing is I have seen dogs wandering around the house. I have taped them playing together when I am not home. I can't imagine them not having that.

I know you all crate just when they are puppies-- for me that stage is part of who they are and who they are becoming and I wait for a time in my life or in my year that I am free to be there to take care of them and work with them, not just because of the safety and the chewing and all that but because I want to see it. I want to see my baby learn and my baby grow into more complex emotions and be curious. These are probably the only kids I will ever have and their childhood is so short...

(Sorry if this was rambly... )
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old March 12th, 2005, 02:28 AM
amber416 amber416 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 341
I read through all of the posts in this thread and it seems like Prin was taking a lot of heat for simply starting a debate. I also didn't see anyone saying that either using or not using a crate was the right or wrong thing to do. Something I had posted in another thread in response to an expressed opinion of Prin's was included in the first entry in this thread and in it I referred to a family that crates their lab eight hours during the day while they are at work and then again at night while they are sleeping. I dogsit for them a few times a year and I notice that he also appears to "like" his crate. He enters it whenever we come back in from a walk or playing in the yard and I have heard this behavior mentioned in this thread a few times. Somehow I never interpreted it as liking it, however, it always seemed kind of....i don't know, sad to me. More out of obedience and habbit then a love for his crate. I have also heard people say that sitting in a crate all day is a lot better than many dogs have it. While this may be true, I find myself a little weary of that reasoning. Just because something is relatively better doesn't make it right or desireable. I worked in a vet clinic for a few years and saw a lot of negative effects of crating, ranging from foot injuries to horror stories of dogs strangling themselves in desperate attempts to free themselves from their cages. I was glad when Prin started this thread as I was hoping to learn the positive aspects of crate training and what exactly responsible crate training entails (how often a crate should be used, the purposes, how the dogs are weaned off of the crate, so to speak, excetera). I hope to have a dog of my own at some point and I'm not sure if I will ever use a crate but i appreciate everyone sharing their opinions, whether for or against crating, so i can one day make a well-informed decision.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old March 12th, 2005, 02:40 AM
mona_b's Avatar
mona_b mona_b is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hamilton Ont
Posts: 4,620
Prin,amber,I'm speechless.

Words from the heart.Very touching.

It actually made me forget the rotten afternoon shift I had at work.Mind you I should be used to getting spit on,peed on,being called names,dealing with the all around bad people.
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours."
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old March 12th, 2005, 03:03 AM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
doggies, the original "nannycam"

I just reread my post (to see what I had gotten myself into this time)and this came to mind...
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old March 12th, 2005, 11:31 AM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,287
Quote:
Just because something is relatively better doesn't make it right or desireable
Exactly!!
I could stick my dog in a crate night and day and tell myself, "Well, it's better than being fought in a pit, or beaten to death, or tied outside 24/7."

That's not the point. I brought this dog, who had no choices, into my home and I am obligated to give her the best life I can.

And yes, many dog will voluntarily enter a crate. There are some dogs who have known nothing else who are scared to leave it. Doesn't mean it's a good thing. We all cling to what we know even if it's not the best thing for us.

Crate training is fine. Crate living is inhumane.

Quote:
Mind you I should be used to getting spit on,peed on,being called names,dealing with the all around bad people.
Where the heck do you work?

Last edited by Lucky Rescue; March 12th, 2005 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old March 12th, 2005, 12:11 PM
heidiho's Avatar
heidiho heidiho is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Maui,Hawaii
Posts: 4,348
Prin,if u can afford 100.00 shoes,then i wouldnt worry about my sofa or stuff getting chewed either,but i dont buy 100.00 shoes,nor can i buy new sofas all the time,do u work???Do u have a rich man??/Or are u retired???? No crating should not be used for punishment,it should be used for exactly what it was intended for,help in training....
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old March 12th, 2005, 12:45 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Actually I am a full time university student and I am not rich at all. I currently live in a 2 1/2 apt with my two big doggies and my man. I believe if a woman has a good pair of running shoes, she's set. I mean how many pairs of shoes do you need? Black closed sandal, black strappy sandal, black dress shoe, black heel, brown sandal, brown closed sandal, white sandal, indoor running shoes, outdoor running shoes, dog park boots, dressy boots.... Quite a selection for Furrie to choose from. The most I ever had was 4 pairs and the doggy got 2 (one was $125- most expensive shoes I ever had). From then on, I just wore whatever matched the shoes I had left.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old March 12th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,287
My dog chewed a few things after I got her - the strap of a new purse, one shoe, a new pair of glasses and a few other things. I blamed myself for leaving things lying around and tried not to do that anymore.

One of my kittens broke something precious to me, among other things. But that's life when you have pets.

I wonder who would condone leaving a cat in a carrycase all day?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old March 12th, 2005, 01:56 PM
mona_b's Avatar
mona_b mona_b is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hamilton Ont
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyRescue
Where the heck do you work?

I'll give you a hint...I put bad people in jail......
__________________
"A dog can express more with his tail in minutes than his owner can express with his tongue in hours."
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old March 13th, 2005, 04:06 PM
melanie's Avatar
melanie melanie is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,824
cyberkitten, if you ever come over here again to lecture please oh oplease let us know, i would love to attend a lecture given by you, i would even travel to WA to see it (take a couple of days to get there)

a share house- in american tv i see the word room mate used, its like that but you have your own room in a house that a group of people rent, one person usually holds the lease and rents to the others (with a dog i always hold the lease, more control etc). we have had a huge variety, i once lived with 7 cats, another dog and charlie, i have also lived with staffies and other breeds. its a good way to rent with an animal and much cheaper for the $$$rent. but i havent shared in years, too much drama, hard to get ppl to respect your pets and to many requriements to be flexible doing that, hey im a cancer, i jsut cant be that flexible..
__________________
REDUCE, RETHINK, REUSE, RECYCLE.. "We only Conserve what we love, We love only what we understand, we understand only what were taught"- David Suzuki....NO WAR.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00 PM.