cancer/diet poll

[MerlinsHope]

chlorine is NOT one of the least causes of cancer

You're absolutely wrong about that one.

Just because the EPA has not classified chlorine as to its human carcinogenicity, does not mean there are no links to cancer -

In the chlorination process itself, chlorine naturally combines with natural available organic matter decaying vegetation to form potent cancer causing trihalomethanes (THM’s) and/or haloforms. This is a well known dangerous process and the EPA has been cautioned of this since 1920.

The amount of THM's is apparently 'regulated" by the EPA, although the maximum amount allowed by law is 100 ppb, a 1976 study showed 31 of 112 municipal water systems exceeded this limit. IN 1986 the EPA itself issued a guideline that if one lives in an area with chlorinated water, NOT to drink it.

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Right now one of the leading causes of cancer in women is chlorine.
Anyways, let's agree to disagree on that one. Keep drinking chlorinated water then!

Here's a good read.
Breast Cancer and Chlorine Fact Sheet
http://www.breastcancerfund.org/site...XLdPaE&b=84502

[want4rain]

isnt chlorine banned in Germany?? i vaguely recall something about that a few years ago...

there are so many things that we use on a daily basis thats so very harmful to your health. its really a shame how politics has an effect on what we are exposed to.

-ashley

[CyberKitten]

Chlorine in and of itself is not carcinogenic but as I said, it is highly toxic. And yes,it does bind with certain other elements but this is not something that has been documented sufficiently (that may be unfortunate I agree). There are so many carcinogens that chlorine - at least on my list - is way down the list. In small quantities, it actually saves lives and I suppose that is my bias as a hematologist. If not for chlorinated cleaners, many people - esp in the third world -would now be dead - because they did not have clean areas to live in and one of the brightest scientists in the prevention of AIDS tells everyone make sure you use bleach in disinfecting areas. I am not fond of chlorine and I do wish we had better alternatives but it does seem to at least have helped to prevent some deaths while it would seem - depending on the accuracy of those studies (It had not yet really been documented as a carcinogen per ce by the powers that be which as I noted before does not mean it is not the case).

Practically everything we eat or drink or use - if combined with another element can be a carcinogen so we will have to agree to disagree. Greenpeace I know has said it does cause breast cancer and as much as I am an environmentalist (remember I am the one who spent thousands of my own money to take a chlorine producing plant to court. ) their science is unfortunately flawed. Believe me, I wish it was not. The problem is there are so many kinds of ways chlorine is made and distributed- some of it good, most of it bad and we do need some of it.

Lately, I am scared to drink anything. Did I say I drank chlorinated water? I don't actually- but then again, the bottled water I drink I now read may have plastic in the containers that if left for long periods can - I suppose similarly to chlorine- bond with other ions in a way that it becomes a carcinogen. I have not read those studies yet - I only have so much time in the day. The n again, Hfx's water is supposed to be good but oh God, I don;t know. I tend to drink strawberry water made with splenda and I know the person who developed splenda and I just hope ten yrs from now, it is not discovered as a carcinogen- it should not be, since it is sucralose but over time, we learn new trhings all the time.

You are preaching to the converted- I just have to point out that as of yet, no credible medical journal will say that chlorine is a carcinogen and there are studies that have done - but as I say, even trhe studies which use different compounds of cl cannot be compared. It would be like apples and oranges or maybe Macintosh's and Delicious Apples. I don't know.

he EPA has proposed a regulation that "only" eliminates the use of elemental chlorine in pulp and paper manufacture. Chlorine compounds such as chlorine dioxide (ClO) are permitted.

The Society of Toxicology (the same popl who helped us to ban DDT and other horrid substances) declared a few yrs ago that toxicologic principles do not support the banning of chlorine. They also say he most scientifically sound approach is "to assess the toxicity of agents on a chemical-by-chemical basis." (meaning the various types of Cl) Greenpeace often lumops DSDT and digoxins which SHOULD be banned in with chlorine and they do contain it but it is the sum total of their products that make them so dangerous.

Also, the he natural world contains more than 1,500 chlorine-containing chemicals. How do we bamn something naturally occurring? For example, 2,4-dichlorophenol, a type of Cl, is used to make penicillin. Do you want to ban penicillin. I surely do not.

So you see, it is a complex issue and one must be very cautious in examining it. I have to be careful when I talk to govt agencies and courts and other agencies so I am used to examining everything I say carefully so as not to be taken out of context or to give the those who would disagree with environmentalists anything to ponce on because they will and have done it. I once wrote an article in a column I was writing on environmental issues about chlorine that a certain plant had polluted the sediment at a certain level and a typo was made in the paper and we had to meet with the CEO and apologize. I do not ever want to have to do that again! It was not my fault and the company was prob doing worse (since I find the EPA and even in Canada the limits are not high enough) but I took responsibility since the col was in my name. Thus, I am very cautious about ensuring anything I say can be backed up scientifically. Greenpeace has a good plan but their science I am afraid (sigh!) does not help them in this cause, even tho it's a good one.

[Catherine Lane]

I'm wondering why the food choices are canned, kibble and raw? I lost my heartdog Luke to hemangiosarcoma in 2006, and he was fed a properly formulated, home made cooked diet all his life. He was vaccinated only once, in puppyhood, and I see (and work with) a highly skilled holistic vet. After speaking with one of the leading reserachers in veterinary oncology, my conclusion was that genetics plus environmental toxins triggered the cancer.

Last year my dear old cat Howard died from lymphoma, and then Lila, my 13 year old Border Collie/Lab, grew a five pound splenic tumour which thankfully was NOT hemangio, and while she is still with us, I have noted three cancers in two years in a holistic household.

The oncologists I spoke with told me that they are seeing hemangio in dogs fed everything from Ol'Roy to raw to premium kibble...this illness has little regard for nutritional status, it would seem.

As a nutritionist, I do NOT find this discouraging, the benefits of a good diet are still important and providing good health overall is never a bad idea. While hemangio is notoriously deadly, I've helped owners to manage many cases of lymphoma, mast cell tumour and other varieties using diet and supplements - along with conventional treatments, of course. I don't know if we can "prevent" cancer with good diet, but I am using as much organic food as I can afford for Daniel, and he is getting curcumin, ellagic acid, shiitake mushrooms, astragalus, fish body oil, some Ester-C, bromelain and chlorella as well as small amounts of ground flax, ginger and garlic. My suspicion for us is that we live in farm country and there is a lot of herbicide and pesticide buildup locally. I'm continuing with their home prepared diets, I never use lawn or household chemicals, I keep Daniel happy and fit, as I feel all of these are cornerstones to good health. I have to think in terms not only of prevention, but of how well an individual will cope if disease does in fact develop. I'm also advocating early screening wherever possible, which again can save lives or at least, extend them. Dr. Modiano has advised me the research team is very close to an early detection bloodtest for hemangio, which is so deadly - killed my boy with no warning whatsoever.

I know this is a thread about cancer and diet, but my personal experience, both with my own dogs and the hundreds of cases I've worked with professionally, has been that diet seems to be only one of many contributing factors, and likely not the greatest risk. It seems to me that environmental toxin is a much larger foe, although I would still encourage home feeders to make sure they are getting adequate nutrition into the dog. A zinc deficiency or unbalanced fatty acid ratio isn't going to help a dog resist disease, that's for sure.

So yes, I've had three cancers in two years, two of them fatal. My dogs eat home made cooked food, and my cat ate a rotated variety of premium foods including Fromm, Felidae, and Orijen, supplemented with fresh foods.

Just a few comments based on a lot of experience. I was struck by the fact the list of options did not include home prepared cooked diet.

Catherine

[DoubleRR]

Genetics plays a crucial role when it comes to cancer as well. My grandfather smoked 3 packs a day and drank at least 3 litres of wine daily and lived to the ripe old age of 87 . All the members of my DH's family (his mother's generation) didn't smoke nor drink, led very healthy lifestyles...all died by the age of 50 due to cancer .

It is obviously the wine. The rest should have followed his example, maybe?

Seriously, cancer is the biggest threat to life on earth--thanks to us humans and the oblivious way we bombard the planet with deadly chemicals the moment we discover they are useful for one thing--as if side effects were a myth or something. Afraid the entire race is my least favorite earth life form, but that is another thread--or forum.
The poll won't find out much except perhaps how many of us feed kibble or raw or canned. The difference in quality of different types of food in each category makes it almost pointless to generalize. I feed kibble, have always fed kibble, have never had a cancerous tumor on or in an animal thus far to my knowledge. All my pets have lived, barring accidental death, until the upper end of their species lifetime, and I have never taken any of them to the vet for any illness--ever. Stitches, neutering, but no illness--and I only vaccinate in puppy hood and kitten hood.
I believe it is a combination of living in cleaner parts of the planet [until recently, but that is again another discussion], keeping animals well exercised, feeding the best quality kibbles I could find, and genetics. Plus a great deal of luck!

[anneh]

I just saw your message. I also cook for my dogs altho they also get some raw meats. Now I have a problem, one of my adopted dogs developed an auto immune disease (IMPA) and in spite of trying everything holistic (we have a holistic vet) the only answer was to put her on steroids. Because her disease is inflammatory I presume I should avoid all grains. Now her liver is slightly enlarged so wondering if I should go on the "Dr Dodds Liver Cleansing Diet" of white fish and potatoes but confused if the potatoes will affect her. We titer for everything except 3 yr rabies but she will get a waiver for rabies in view of her illness. I am very worried about her anneh QUOTE=Catherine Lane;583836]I'm wondering why the food choices are canned, kibble and raw? I lost my heartdog Luke to hemangiosarcoma in 2006, and he was fed a properly formulated, home made cooked diet all his life. He was vaccinated only once, in puppyhood, and I see (and work with) a highly skilled holistic vet. After speaking with one of the leading reserachers in veterinary oncology, my conclusion was that genetics plus environmental toxins triggered the cancer.

Last year my dear old cat Howard died from lymphoma, and then Lila, my 13 year old Border Collie/Lab, grew a five pound splenic tumour which thankfully was NOT hemangio, and while she is still with us, I have noted three cancers in two years in a holistic household.

The oncologists I spoke with told me that they are seeing hemangio in dogs fed everything from Ol'Roy to raw to premium kibble...this illness has little regard for nutritional status, it would seem.

As a nutritionist, I do NOT find this discouraging, the benefits of a good diet are still important and providing good health overall is never a bad idea. While hemangio is notoriously deadly, I've helped owners to manage many cases of lymphoma, mast cell tumour and other varieties using diet and supplements - along with conventional treatments, of course. I don't know if we can "prevent" cancer with good diet, but I am using as much organic food as I can afford for Daniel, and he is getting curcumin, ellagic acid, shiitake mushrooms, astragalus, fish body oil, some Ester-C, bromelain and chlorella as well as small amounts of ground flax, ginger and garlic. My suspicion for us is that we live in farm country and there is a lot of herbicide and pesticide buildup locally. I'm continuing with their home prepared diets, I never use lawn or household chemicals, I keep Daniel happy and fit, as I feel all of these are cornerstones to good health. I have to think in terms not only of prevention, but of how well an individual will cope if disease does in fact develop. I'm also advocating early screening wherever possible, which again can save lives or at least, extend them. Dr. Modiano has advised me the research team is very close to an early detection bloodtest for hemangio, which is so deadly - killed my boy with no warning whatsoever.

I know this is a thread about cancer and diet, but my personal experience, both with my own dogs and the hundreds of cases I've worked with professionally, has been that diet seems to be only one of many contributing factors, and likely not the greatest risk. It seems to me that environmental toxin is a much larger foe, although I would still encourage home feeders to make sure they are getting adequate nutrition into the dog. A zinc deficiency or unbalanced fatty acid ratio isn't going to help a dog resist disease, that's for sure.

So yes, I've had three cancers in two years, two of them fatal. My dogs eat home made cooked food, and my cat ate a rotated variety of premium foods including Fromm, Felidae, and Orijen, supplemented with fresh foods.

Just a few comments based on a lot of experience. I was struck by the fact the list of options did not include home prepared cooked diet.

Catherine[/QUOTE]