Dog leaking pus and blood from nose...

[Myka]

Ok, first off my dog has already seen a vet, and has a second appointment on Tuesday for "surgery".

I have my own diagnosis, and the vet is on the same track as me. I'm not going to tell you guys what we think is going on...I want to see if you guys come up with something we didn't already.

So Myka is sounding congested in her nose. This started maybe Tuesday of last week. If she got excited (running mostly) she would go into a sneezing, snuffling, dry heave sort of fit. On Thursday her left nostril started leaking what looked like pus, the right nostril is fine. She is on and off food (which is like the sun not coming up...she ALWAYS eats as long as it's kibble lol). Her breath smells like rotting meat (not normal doggie smell). Her nose was getting worse, and her nostril started leaking blood as well as the pus-like stuff. So I called the vet, and he looked at her on Friday. Myka's temperature was normal, and she hasn't shown any signs of fever.

Possibly related stuff: Myka has had was I think is a runnier than normal nose for a couple years. Vets that she's seen in that time never showed any concern about it though. Both of Myka's upper canine teeth are brown and dead, and have been that way for about 5-7 years (can't remember exactly). They have never bothered her, and the gums have always looked good and healthy. Now the gums around both of her upper canines are inflamed and receding. Her teeth are due to be cleaned, but are definately not in poor condition...I wouldn't let it get that far between cleanings.

Myka was snuffling and sneezing yellow plegm out of her nose back in mid-February. Her lymph nodes on each side of her neck swelled up the size of half a grapefruit. She saw the vet, and he gave her a broad spectrum anti-biotic. The lymph nodes went down quickly, and the sneezing stopped. The vet couldn't say what caused it, although he suggested I get her teeth cleaned sometime soonish, and they could take a look to see if there was a molar or something that was abcessing in there causing the lymph nodes to react.

Myka really just hasn't seemed "herself" since. We were thinking that maybe she's actually just starting to show her age. I'm wondering if the issue in February was just masked by the anti-biotics, and that the problem is resurfacing again...?

Today is the first day that it seems like she's only leaking blood from her nose, doesn't appear to be pus anymore. It's still just the left nostril that is affect. There isn't a whole lot of blood though, but it is "fresh" looking when it comes out.

On Myka's Tuesday appointment she's getting knocked out and they will do teeth x-rays/nose x-rays/nose scope/etc to diagnose what the issue is. $$$! I'm getting a full Geriatric blood panel instead of just the pre-anesthetic blood work. She's getting her teeth cleaned at the same time (might as well while they're in there), and a sebaceous cyst removed from her side that she's had for a year or so. Big day for her! :sad:

So what are your guys' ideas?

[hazelrunpack]

Among other things, it does sound like it could be a bad tooth abcess with involvement of the sinuses. I'm glad you're taking her in on Tuesday to have the workup done. Poor girl must be miserable.

[pitgrrl]

I would think the teeth had abcessed too.

Or, totally unrelated, could she have gotten some foreign body, like a foxtail, into her nose?

[Myka]

Thanks guys! You're on the same track as my vet and I. One other thought is a tumor in her nose...but that would be really bad, and we aren't thinking about that!

We have thought of a foreign body too, which is why they will scope her nose if the x-rays don't show an abcess. She isn't rubbing her nose or anything though.

She's actually not miserable. She's "off", but she's still running around, and I took her to the beach today, and she swam and layed around. She is leery about eating though, and she usually ignores her food right away, but goes and eats it later. I tried soaking it, but then she won't touch it at all.

I always knew that there was a high possibility that the canines would eventually cause troubles, but my vets always suggested to leave them in until they did cause problems since their canines are very important, and difficult to remove.

[t.pettet]

If her upper canines have been 'brown and dead' for 5 to 7 years I'm surprised she didn't come down with serious infections prior to this episode. Her heart must also be affected if she's been needing dental surgery for this long. Why were her teeth not cleaned before now? Sorry, I don't think I understand your post.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by t.pettet

If her upper canines have been 'brown and dead' for 5 to 7 years I'm surprised she didn't come down with serious infections prior to this episode. Her heart must also be affected if she's been needing dental surgery for this long. Why were her teeth not cleaned before now? Sorry, I don't think I understand your post.

Read what I just posted above about the vets (plural) suggesting NOT to remove the canines. Teeth can be "dead" (they turn brown) "forever" without causing issues. Many people live with dead teeth until the end of their days. Her two canines are brown because they are dead, not because of plaque. Myka hasn't had dental surgery before, as she has NOT needed it (vets' opinion). Her teeth are taken care of, and have regular cleanings - when needed.

[t.pettet]

No need to be so defensive! Have never heard of a vet's recommendation to leave dead canines in until they cause problems. When she was on antibiotics her lymph nodes went down and her sneezing stopped - sounds like an infection of sorts.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by t.pettet

No need to be so defensive! Have never heard of a vet's recommendation to leave dead canines in until they cause problems. When she was on antibiotics her lymph nodes went down and her sneezing stopped - sounds like an infection of sorts.

Sorry, but there are some pricks on this website that have a habit of being offensive. I mistook you for one of them!

Three different vets suggested "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." Canine teeth play an important role, and it's a big loss to lose them.

[luckypenny]

Sounds like Bordetella (kennel cough) to me . Has she been vaccinated recently? Does she spend time with other dogs?

[Myka]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Sounds like Bordetella (kennel cough) to me . Has she been vaccinated recently? Does she spend time with other dogs?

She was vaccinated once a year for Bordetella up until 2006. She missed 2007. She was re-vaccinated for it in January 2008. She doesn't spend time with other dogs (she doesn't like dogs), but she does go to parks.

I never thought of Bordetella (my vet didn't suggest it either)...I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the idea!

EDIT: Checked it out. She's not coughing. She sneezes though, which turns into a dry-heave thing sometimes. Maybe once a day.

[luckypenny]

The reason I had asked if she had been vaccinated lately is because sometimes, after vaccination, some dogs may react to it with mucousy discharge and sneezing/coughing.

Her symptoms do sound like Bordetella, but, it could a combination of that and the problem with her teeth and/or something else might be going on. I'm just speaking from my experience with it. I would, however, get your vet to consider the possibility though before going through any surgery (other than tooth extraction if necessary of course). If it hasn't been done already, I'd also suggest a blood test.

Hoping your will find an accurate diagnosis soon .

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by Myka

EDIT: Checked it out. She's not coughing. She sneezes though, which turns into a dry-heave thing sometimes. Maybe once a day.

I've never had a dog with Bordetella who coughed; they sneezed and depending on the severity, with yellow/green to pink or blood tinged discharge.

[ScottieDog]

I just want to wish you and Myka luck with the surgery and give you some encouragement. My 13 year-old Scottie had 4 teeth pulled on Tuesday. He is acting like a puppy today. He had an infection starting in a tooth and a sensitive nerve. I asked my vet to take anything else that looked questionable since I didn't want him to be under anesthesia any more times than needed. Even though I was worried about Mac's age and having the anesthesia, I was very concerned about the infection getting in his blood stream and damaging his heart, liver or other organs. My vet told me that he should recover quickly and he would act much happier. I'm happy to report that he is very playful and seems quite happy! Good luck.

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by Myka

Now the gums around both of her upper canines are inflamed and receding.

I think the canines might have to come out especially if there are cavities under the gum line which can cause infection. I wonder if she fractured the canines? I know they are 4 of the 6 teeth they want to save if at all possible.

If they can't remove the full canine teeth & roots there is the option of crown amputation aslong as the nerve in the root isn't causing any problems.

My cat needed a couple of teeth taken out recently due to cavities her gums were red, swollen & abit painful to the touch, they also found a couple of fractures. One tooth w/a cavity couldn't be fully removed - the roots fused into her jaw bone so they amputated the crown below the gum line, the root was not infected so it was okay to leave it there.

for the surgery, scope & bloodwork

[rainbow]

Nothing more to add here.....I also think it is infected teeth.

I hope all goes well on Tuesday and that the bloodwork does not reveal any kidney, liver or heart damage due to the infection of the teeth. Good luck.

[Myka]

Thanks for the everyone!

Myka hasn't done any sneezing since Friday. Oddly, she seems better now than she did on Thursday and Friday. She seemed to peak then. The leakage in her nose yesterday and today is just bright red blood, no plegm, no pus, and it doesn't look watered down or anything. This morning she isn't leaking as much blood as yesterday either.

I will call my vet tomorrow morning and talk to him about Bordetella, and see if it's possible to get bloodwork results on Bordetella back before her Tuesday surgery. However, I think if she has Bordetella that it isn't the only thing going on.

I am worried that if they pull the upper canines that they will break off instead of just simply coming out since obviously they've been damaged before since they have been dead for a long time. Anyone know the likelyhood of that?

[Myka]

Hmmm...I just checked Myka's mouth/gums. It looks like the recession of her gums is actually just caused by where the lower gums make contact with her upper gums. None of her gums look red or irritated right now. She also hasn't leaked any blood from her nose this morning at all. She's also been eating normally yesterday and today.

Hmmm...I wonder...maybe it isn't the canine teeth...? Maybe it IS a foreign body in there...? Or maybe there was an abcess, and she's fought it off?

Either way, I'm still going through with getting her teeth cleaned and checked out. I will get them to x-ray the canine teeth for sure, just to be sure.

[Myka]

So she hasn't leaked any blood yesterday or today. Her nose looks normal. Gums look normal. She's even acting normal!! She was just chasing her tail!! I don't get it...if it was an abcess, could she get better herself?

[DoubleRR]

Short answer to can Myka get better on her own if it was an abcess is yes. Something obviously burst and drained and she feels better because of that. Doesn't mean there isn't an underlying infection or a foreign body that could build another abcess. Hopefully the vet gets it right.

[ScottieDog]

Just wanted you and Myka to know I'm thinking of you today and sending good wishes.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by ScottieDog

Just wanted you and Myka to know I'm thinking of you today and sending good wishes.

Aw thanks!

This morning Myka seemed 100% when I took her to the vet. The vet took a look at her and said, "Maybe we should just wait, she seems fine now." But I said, nah go ahead and clean her teeth (she was due), and x-ray the canines so we know if that was indeed the problem.

Well the news is.........we know nothing more!! However, the vet did x-ray both her upper canines, and there is no sign of abcess. He didn't do the nose scope (didn't seem necessary now), but he did put an ear scope up her nose, and couldn't see anything. So...we're not sure right now. We're kinda thinkin now that it was either a foreign body or sinus infection (which healed itself), but really who knows?

I took a poo sample in too, and she doesn't have any worms. Got the sebaceous cyst removed. Her teeth are pearly white now (except the dead ones...they're pearly brown hehe). Waiting on the results of the full blood analysis.

So I'm happy she's better, but I wish we knew what was going on!!

And at $920, that bill reeeeeeeeeeeally hurt!!!

[ScottieDog]

It gets scary and frustrating when the professionals don't know what is going on, doesn't it? Sometimes, it is figuring out what it isn't to figure out what it is. My Mac has his pearly whites too--except where he has gums only.

And we sure feel the "ouch" factor from the bills too. I'm about ready to change my pups' names to "Visa". All my best to Myka.

[Myka]

Yes, it's pretty frustrating since we don't what was/is going on, so we don't know if it's actually better or not.

So lastnight Myka had some bright red blood in her poop. Poop was quite soft. She woke me up at 2:30 am to take her out where she then had liquid diarrhea with just a tiny bit of blood in it. I will call the vet today.

[Myka]

Vet thinks the ailing poop problems were just a result of stress. Myka seems happy as a clam today.

[rainbow]

Poor Myka sure seems to get a lot of weird symptoms that never seem to get an explanation for their cause. Did her swollen lymph nodes ever recur?

[dbg10]

Poor Myka having to see the vet and poor you for having no diagnosis after all this. Speaking in human terms an abscess is an encapsulated pocket up pus which often break as they get bigger or outgrow the space they are occupying. The source of the infection is sometimes evident, sometimes not but I would think those teeth are the likely cause or a foreign body that has been in her nose for a long time. The bright red blood from her nose may be the result of the abscess breaking and opening a small blood vessel in her nose causing a nose bleed. However, the bright red blood in her poop is something else. Bright red blood in poop, human or animal usually originates in the rectum or anal area. If there is blood in poop that comes from farther up the digestive system then it usually turns the poop black by the time the poop is passed. Unless there is a huge rapid bleed from higher up in the digestive tract the poop should not be bright red. From your descriptiion of what has happened to Myka it sounds like she had a nose bleed which conceivably she may have swallowed some blood. However, if that is the case then the blood shouldn't have been bright red unless she lost a large amount of blood during the nose bleed and Myka's behaviour doesn't sound like it was. I would definitely keep an eye on her for further bleeding no matter where it comes from in her body and hope it is all over with for now at least. The blood work should tell you how big the nose bleed was and if there is any further bleeding going on elsewhere.

Good luck to you and Myka, and yes the costs do get very high when a pet is ill.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by rainbow

Poor Myka sure seems to get a lot of weird symptoms that never seem to get an explanation for their cause. Did her swollen lymph nodes ever recur?

Yes! It's really worrying me! :sad: The swollen lymph nodes never returned. The anti-biotic cleared it up pronto.

Originally Posted by dbg10

Poor Myka having to see the vet and poor you for having no diagnosis after all this. Speaking in human terms an abscess is an encapsulated pocket up pus which often break as they get bigger or outgrow the space they are occupying. The source of the infection is sometimes evident, sometimes not but I would think those teeth are the likely cause or a foreign body that has been in her nose for a long time. The bright red blood from her nose may be the result of the abscess breaking and opening a small blood vessel in her nose causing a nose bleed. However, the bright red blood in her poop is something else. Bright red blood in poop, human or animal usually originates in the rectum or anal area. If there is blood in poop that comes from farther up the digestive system then it usually turns the poop black by the time the poop is passed. Unless there is a huge rapid bleed from higher up in the digestive tract the poop should not be bright red. From your descriptiion of what has happened to Myka it sounds like she had a nose bleed which conceivably she may have swallowed some blood. However, if that is the case then the blood shouldn't have been bright red unless she lost a large amount of blood during the nose bleed and Myka's behaviour doesn't sound like it was. I would definitely keep an eye on her for further bleeding no matter where it comes from in her body and hope it is all over with for now at least. The blood work should tell you how big the nose bleed was and if there is any further bleeding going on elsewhere.

Good luck to you and Myka, and yes the costs do get very high when a pet is ill.

The blood from her nose wasn't a significant quantity. Maybe 1/2 tsp per day, and that was for only 2 days that it was even that much. Her teeth were x-rayed, and there was no sign of abcess. The roots of the teeth look secure. The vet said the blood in her poop was likely caused by stress due to the anesthetic. He said it was quite common, especially in nervous or older dogs. Her digestive system seems to be back up to par now. Normal poops. She's acting normal too.

[dbg10]

great to hear Myka, hope she continues on her road to recovery

[Myka]

Myka seems off today for sure. Very stiff, and tired seeming. I would like to say "depressed", but I'm not sure if she is or not, it just seems to be the way she's acting. :sad:

I got her blood test results. Most things are in the normal range. I'm waiting for my copy, but what the vet said was her hemoglobin was down a bit at 36.1, so she was/is a teeny bit anemic. Could have been caused by her nose bleeding though. Also, her Alkaline phosphatase was elevated at 302, which could mean a number of things, but the vet thinks it is elevated because she had mild dental disease. He suggests to re-test her in a month or so, and if it is still elevated to do a liver analysis. He also said that sometimes the AlkPhos will be elevated and they will not be able to find a reason why. Then upon re-testing it will be normal again.

[Myka]

Continued here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=54780