Breeders of Boxers with tails

[Myka]

I'm not looking for a pup, but I have been searching to try to find a Boxer breeder in Canada or the USA that doesn't dock tails. I can't seem to locate any since my Google searches are only coming up with docked breeders. I am just looking out of general interest, and wondering if the habit of leaving the tails natural has moved to North America yet.

I have noticed that many Boxer dedicated "rescues" seem to have many Boxers with their tails - likely simply because they come from breedings where the owners don't have the money or don't want to spend the money on docking. However, I would be really interested to hear about some breeders that are taking a stand on docking.

Boxers sure look great with their tails!

Even though I prefer a mahogany fawn, this brindle has a great tail!

[cell]

I believe the majority of the Eastern Provinces have banned docking and cropping so breeders that can not do cosmetic procedures should start producing natural pups. Otherwise you may have to look to Europe or make a special request that the tail left natural on a reserved pup. Keeping a eye open on Petfinder is probably the best option though!

[Myka]

Originally Posted by cell

I believe the majority of the Eastern Provinces have banned docking and cropping

Thanks for your comments. I just tried Googling, and can't find much information on banning docking in Canada. I read a CBC article that claimed veterinarians in Nova Scotia are refusing the dock and crop, but that is their choice, and not law from my understanding. Interesting though, I didn't hear of this before. I will continue my hunt!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...surgeries.html

Oh, and I wanted to clarify...I am not looking for a puppy. I am just looking for information.

[Dog Dancer]

I love the look as well. It's a shame that breeders continue to mutilate these dogs. I understand that some breeds who have specific jobs could be injured by certain features hence the croppings and such, but most dogs today are pets not doing the rough jobs that they were originally designed for.

[undo]

there is also a line of boxers which have natural bobtails, it's a gene mutation which was introduced through selective breeding with corgis

here is a link
http://www.steynmere.com/ARTICLES1.html

I came across it while researching bobtails, since I love bobtails on dogs, I found it very humane unlike docking.

[erykah1310]

Originally Posted by Dog Dancer

I love the look as well. It's a shame that breeders continue to mutilate these dogs.

Reason for it, show wins.
By high set standard by those who really dont know what they are preaching about, only reputable breeders have show titles right (some may see working titles as suitable but nothing compared to a CH)??
Well in order to obtain a show title, breeders have to show what judges like to see and/or what parent clubs dictate as standard.
Unfortunately for boxers and many other breeds it is docking and cropping that wins.
Ihave a friend who shows and breeds boxers and to obtain a CH on one with natural ears will take you considerably longer regardless.
Put two equally outstanding (conformationally) boxers in the ring one cropped and one natural I would bet all I have that the cropped will win.
Until either laws are passed banning it ( not necissarily something I am in favor of as I feel that we are told what to do quite enough as it is) or until breed clubs change or judges look past whats cut off a dog, cropping and docking will remain.
Cant please everyone

[erykah1310]

Oh yeah, and to find a boxer breeder who does not dock you may have to go to "unreputable breeders" who dont do conformation but may work towards working titles.
there are a few of these "unreputable" breeders around who prefer natural

[erykah1310]

Originally Posted by Dog Dancer

I love the look as well. It's a shame that breeders continue to mutilate these dogs.

Reason for it, show wins.
By high set standard by those who really dont know what they are preaching about, only reputable breeders have show titles right (some may see working titles as suitable but nothing compared to a CH)??
Well in order to obtain a show title, breeders have to show what judges like to see and/or what parent clubs dictate as standard.
Unfortunately for boxers and many other breeds it is docking and cropping that wins.
Ihave a friend who shows and breeds boxers and to obtain a CH on one with natural ears will take you considerably longer regardless.
Put two equally outstanding (conformationally) boxers in the ring one cropped and one natural I would bet all I have that the cropped will win.
Until either laws are passed banning it ( not necissarily something I am in favor of as I feel that we are told what to do quite enough as it is) or until breed clubs change or judges look past whats cut off a dog, cropping and docking will remain.
Cant please everyone

[AngelaM]

I LOVE when they have their tails but I always see them clipped too My dog came with no tail, just a nub, but I love his little nub anyway LOL. At least he has his ears

[cassiek]

Hi Myka,

As far as I know, it's routinely performed and allowed in Canada. But I do know some vets are starting to refuse to do cosmetic surgery on dogs (ears cropped, tails docked, etc.)

If one wished to purchase a dog that normally does have the tail docked, the best bet would be to talk to the breeder beforehand. Most reputable breeders have their pups sold before they are born, so I am sure if one requested a pup where the tail was left natural, the breeder would likely comply. After all, it saves them the time and expense of having to take the pup to the vet and pay to have it done.

My B has a docked tail, I wish she didn't - tails are just too cute! Although, I do have to say, the way she wiggles her bum because she doesn't have a full tail is pretty adorable too, but I really think the whole process is still disgusting. As someone else mentioned, it used to be done on some breeds especially hunting dogs, but most of our dogs today are pets and are not used for their original purposes.

[erykah1310]

A breeder really has no choice but to dock the entire litter though, it has to be done before 3 days of age, there is no way for an ethical breeder to know which pup will be going where at that age and the risk of docking the pick pup would be too great. Even though there are waiting lists you really dont know which pup will be going to your home until evaluations are done usually around the 8 week mark.
It would be nice though, if you could find someone breeding a pet only litter to just not dock one for you, however if you are dealing with a truely ethical breeder, they still couldnt possibly tell you which pup is best suited to you.

[Spatx]

One breed I truly wish they would leave the tails natural on are Australian Shepherds. Their natural, long, flowing tails are just gorgeous. The breeders like to refute that it is for 'safety' or other reasons... but it isn't true to the majority of aussies. Most of them will never work sheep in rough terrain with thick bushes. It's not likely, and even if they did I still don't see the full purpose of docking in the breed. The only reason is due to standards and showing.

I wish my aussie had a tail, although I like his little stub, a full tail on him would be just gorgeous! I really wish Canada and the US would adapt the laws against crop/docking.

I'd be curious to find out how the UK made the change, and how it came to be?

[erykah1310]

I hate the arguement that the dog will injure themselves with a natural tail.
Aussies are docked but BC's are not???
Both bred for the same thing right? Both would work in the same terrain so why is it an Aussie's tail needs to be removed yet a BC's doesnt?

I know the Canadian show dogs mailing list was burning up with some talk of crop and dock bans a few months ago.

[cassiek]

It certainly would not be ideal to not just dock one pup's tail, but I think if you requested it they would. You certainly would HAVE to take that pup since you had requested it didn't have its tail dock and it MAY not end up being the best match, but I suppose it's just a matter of how important it is to the person that will be purchasing the pup.

Hopefully it will just be banned altogether in the near future and it won't be an issue.

[Goldfields]

It was the RSPCA and public opinion that helped get the Act in that banned docking here in Australia. I think it became as socially unacceptable to walk down the street with a docked breed as it would be to smoke cigarettes in a no smoking area. You'd cop an earful from angry members of the public. Cropping ears was banned a long time ago and if someone imported a crop eared dog, they were not allowed to exhibit it. I don't know if they are allowing a transition period in the showring re docked dogs, but maybe they are and just saying that no dog born after the Act was passed could be shown if it has a docked tail. It's pleasing to read this thread.
erykah1310 wrote
I hate the arguement that the dog will injure themselves with a natural tail.
Aussies are docked but BC's are not???

Well, I hated the argument that Old English Sheepdogs would get dirty bottoms. Hello ... welcome to the world of caring for dogs like Collies and Shelties. They sometimes get dirty bottoms, you clean it for them, simple.

[cell]

I'm pretty sure Aussies and Old English both have genes for natural bobtails. For the pups that are born full tailed then the breeders usually dock, probably because the bob tail is preferred.

[Spatx]

Aussies do have genes for natural bobs, but the natural bobs I've seen are still longer than the docked ones. Some breeders still dock the natural bobs because of that.

Pretty much every argument for docking or cropping really comes down to appearances.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by erykah1310

Oh yeah, and to find a boxer breeder who does not dock you may have to go to "unreputable breeders" who dont do conformation but may work towards working titles.
there are a few of these "unreputable" breeders around who prefer natural

If there is controversy about docking (I am thinking because of pain , but I don't know the reasons), then why would a reputable breeder do this to the dogs that he/she supposedly loves???? If it is just for the show ring (shame on the judges ), then if all the breeders decided they weren't going to put their pups through this, then the judges have no choice but to judge on the dog's natural (and more beautiful, IMO) appearance.

[erykah1310]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

If there is controversy about docking (I am thinking because of pain , but I don't know the reasons), then why would a reputable breeder do this to the dogs that he/she supposedly loves???? If it is just for the show ring (shame on the judges ), then if all the breeders decided they weren't going to put their pups through this, then the judges have no choice but to judge on the dog's natural (and more beautiful, IMO) appearance.

I agree, however, for docked breeds breeders go for titles and we all know that some people feel that the only way to be a reputable breeder is to have conformation titles. I know a few breeders/exhibitors of docked or cropped breeds that would prefer not to however because as soon as someone see's a litter or dog with an undocked tail (like what the op stated with the beautiful boxer) it is immediately thought of as a back yard breeder who just didnt want to spend the money, have the money ect who bred a litter.
Honestly how many people on this site would even look twice at that particular dog coming from a breeder? That dog would get looked over fast because of the natural tail and assumption that the breeder did not care.
Its lose lose really. Its done primarily to comply with standard or for easier titles that cost less to achieve and because to the average "pet person" breeders who do not rely on judges to evaluate conformation and obtain a litter are immediately looked down on as irreputable.
What option is there really.

And also, there is no way in the world I would have sold a pup at 3 days old just to not dock a tail if my breed needed it. It could go far too wrong resulting in a puppy being returned because the match was not there. There is more reasoning behind application processes than seeing if the new owners are good pet people or not. A great deal of it has to do with matching the perfect pup with the perfect family. Greater success rate for a life long loving home.
Unfortunately breeding and showing and trying to please everyone has its grey areas and there are many shades of grey. I could have easily sold my entire litter three times over now had I not been looking for a) right people b) experience c)good match for the pup.
It would be nice though to not have to put dogs through the un nessicary cosmetic surgery.