Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time! > Senior dogs

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 26th, 2019, 09:04 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
A probably stupid question about colloidal silver

Okay, my understanding was that for a skin infection, topical colloidal silver could be useful. Today, however, when I was buying a new bottle, the clerk insisted that it needs to be taken internally. So...will it work topically? Or do I put it on Grace's food? And if I should use it as dietary supplement, how much should I give a 35 pound dog?

Any help would be appreciated, as I'm in my usual state of confused chaos...
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 26th, 2019, 11:00 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
Hi Hazel:

So what's happened to Grace? Is it a spot that she's licking at?

I've had a fair amount of experience using Colloidal Silver and it can be taken internally as well as applied topically.

Some questions.

What is the ppm count of the bottle you purchased? Does it have a colour? What brand is it? Who suggested you get it? How big is the infected area?

When it comes to taking it internally, I'm pretty picky on how it's made.

I can see no harm in using it topically about 3 times a day applied to the affected area. I put a very small amount in our cat's water when I'm filling their water fountain. It amounts to about 30 cc to 2 1/2 litres of water.

We use it for a wide range of things - cuts, stuff in the eyes, scrapes - and we take it ourselves as well as using it externally.

My first experience on the use of Colloidal from a knowledgeable person who does a lot of hunting, and he was a great believer in carrying it in his pack sack when he had his dogs in the bush hunting. He found it good for cuts and scrapes that the dogs would get and also excellent for problems such as going through tall grass for scratches on the dogs eyes when hunting birds. He also suggested using it in our own eyes and he found that the best all around Colloidal was 10 ppm's. By the way, he was my eye surgeon when I had Catarac surgery.

Can advise on dosage for a 35 pound dog once I know the answers to the above questions.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 27th, 2019, 11:15 AM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Howdy, Reg/Ev.

Luckily, Grace can't reach the spot to lick it. It's a red patch that has been there since late April, high on her neck just inches below her jaw. The vets thought it looked like a hot spot that never fully developed because she couldn't reach it to irritate it. It doesn't seem to itch--she doesn't scratch it--and it never bled or even wept. It started out at about a 5-inch by 4-inch patch and has improved to about a 2-inch by 3-inch past and isn't quite as red and angry looking, but it just won't heal.

The vets did scrapings but no mites. It didn't respond to antibiotics (cefpodoxime). The Quadritop ointment helped a little. Now the current theory is some sort of fungal infection, so they switched her to fluconazole, which did make a noticeable difference.

growler reminded me that colloidal silver can be good for skin problems, so I went to GNC to get it, and found Trace (the only brand they carried) Colloidal Silver Spray. It doesn't have much, if any, color--it might be slightly gray-blue tinted, but that could just be shadow, too--if it's colored at all, it's nearly unnoticeable. It's listed as 30 ppm and is evidently usually just sprayed under the tongue as a dietary supplement. But I want to try it topically if I can before I try to pump anything else into poor Grace.

She has an appointment next week with the traveling dermatologist that comes to our clinic, so we're hoping the vet can at least figure out what it is, if not suggest a better treatment for it. But I'd like to try the colloidal silver, too--I don't think it will hurt anything, and if it helps, well, more power to it!

You can kind of see the patch on Grace's left neck (she's the little girl on the right ) in this shot. The area is pink because it's shaved, but you might be able to pick out the slightly darker patch in the middle of the bald spot:

Name:  Lili and Grace in the big yard 7-11-19 A.jpg
Views: 44
Size:  123.4 KB
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 27th, 2019, 02:11 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
I think I'd be spraying that about 3 or 4 times a day directly on the spot and give it a very light rub to make sure that it gets through to the skin. It could take 4 or 5 days to see any results starting to appear.

If it's fungus based, the Colloidal Silver will disipate it over time ------ this I know from personal experience.

If possible it would be a good idea to give her some orally - 2 or 3 times a day -
between 1/4 and 1/2 tsp in the mouth.....don't mix it in food and give it on an empty stomach. Use a syringe without the needle.......best to use a non-metal spoon or syringe.

Your description of the product - being basically colour-free, looking like water - indicates to me that they are turning out a good product.

If you have an Aloe Vera topical Gel, you can mix about a 1/2 tsp of colloidal silver in about an ounce of the gel, to apply to the area if you wish since Grace isn't able to lick the spot.

I'm glad that Growler suggested colloidal silver ---- there are a lot of applications for ionic and nano particle silver.

I have been following research with one of our Universities here where they have been using nano particle silver in cancer research and having good results with their chemotherapy greatly reducing the side effects....still under research.

Our family doctor gets a bit ticked off with us when we tell him we use it. It saves getting hit with antibiotics.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 28th, 2019, 10:01 AM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Thanks for the info, Ev!! We'll give this a whirl and see how it goes
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 4th, 2019, 07:52 AM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Is it normal for the area to turn really dark reddish when you spray on the colloidal silver? Between doses, her skin starts out normally pink with just a hint of the reddish, but applying the colloidal silver really makes it dark! It's got us a bit worried... Should we discontinue it?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 4th, 2019, 11:14 AM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
Hi Hazel:

Yesterday I was wondering how Grace was.

I'm very surprised at what you're telling us is happening to Grace when the Colloidal Silver is applied. I have never run into this problem before, and I've never heard from other people that I know that have used it either.

From all the research that I have done, there are no known side affects to Colloidal that is properly made and administered according to directions. From what I was able to read about the manufacturer, it seemed to be legitimate. But under the circumstances, I would back off on the spraying and see what the outcome is. How many times per day have you been dosing with the spray, and have you been giving her some orally as well?

Perhaps there is someone else who has had some experience with Colloidal and can share their thoughts about it.

Different times I have checked the ppm count on the label of products that are on store shelves and found them to be out of whack as much as 40 ppm's from what the label says.........this has always made me wonder what else is in the bottle. Just food for thought.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 4th, 2019, 10:55 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,463
The colloidal silver I have is 10ppm. I use it on both Lilly for her atopic dermatis from multiple allergens & I've used it on myself for scratches or cuts. Lilly & I've never had a darkening of the skin from the colloidal silver.

However, when I used the Duoxo Chlorhexidine wipes from the vet Lilly did have a dark orange tinge to her skin that disappeared once I stopped using the wipes.

Are you using anything else on the area like Duoxo, antibiotic cream or spray, shampoo?

Lilly was diagnosed by the Vet Dermatologist as being allergic to Malassezia Yeast which is normally found in low non reactive levels on cats & dogs skin that only gets out of hand when there is an underlying issue such as hot spots, allergens, disease etc. You mentioned it looked like a undeveloped hot spot, I wonder if an overgrowth of yeast is what is happening in this area?
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 5th, 2019, 10:51 AM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Having trouble posting--evidently my modem is going out and we won't get the new one till tomorrow or the next day, but let's give this a whirl one more time...

No detectable yeast--tests run by two of our regular vets and the veterinary dermatologist. Also no mange mites detected.

The skin isn't discolored per se, but the irritated area turns darker. It just seems to enhance the color of the area. Very peculiar.

Also, I checked the bottle and it says at least 30 ppm... Could it be really strong?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 5th, 2019, 02:06 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,463
Wow Blue Lili is so much bigger than Grace now! All grown up!

Not sure what would cause the skin color change like that, might just be the skin reacting to anything being put on it. Allergies to colloidal silver are possible if one is allergic to silver.
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 5th, 2019, 05:00 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
heheh Lili is bigger, but definitely not all grown up! She can still be the bratty puppy when she wants to be! Unfortunately, she's more than 10 pounds heavier than Grace now, so we have to keep an eye on any shenanigans Lili decides to throw at her sis.

Maybe what we'll do is just cut Grace back to one application a day. The color seems to fade out after a few hours and the area is looking better. Not sure if it's the higher dose of fluconazole that the dermatologist prescribed or the colloidal silver, though.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 6th, 2019, 01:31 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
Hello Hazel:

Curiosity got the better of me...... ...I have done some more research and here are some of the things i came across.

You said that the clerk at the store where you purchased your bottle was emphatic about it being taken INTERNALLY. That raised the question WHY???

On further research I found that the distilled water had also been Ozonated, which means that there was more oxygen added to the water during the manufacturing of the Colloidal.......how much more oxygen is anybody's guess.

With you applying the fluzonatole to the mix with the extra oxygen that was used to make the colloidal, I'm wondering if there is an oxidization to some of the components in the fluzonatole giving off the red colouring.

Something I've found in the past with manufacturers is that they try to get an upper hand by adding stuff to their products to try to enhance it for advertising to try to prove that their product is better.

I'm with growler when it comes to colloidal silver.......I just want 2 items in my colloidal.....1 -- steamed distilled water and 2 -- a point decimal of .9999 minimum of silver. Depending on what I'm using it for ......... for instance for applying to eyes 3 to 5 ppm's and for general applications 10 to 15 ppm's........ under certain circumstances I'll use a higher ppm . Also 1 ppm is known to work as well. This is one of the benefits of having your own lab.

Most silver is what they call Ionic silver.......but if you're not getting the results you are looking for, then look for Nano silver which is 50 to 100 times finer than the Ionic silver. This ups its efficiency rating by up to 15%.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 6th, 2019, 05:26 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
This was the only colloidal silver that I could find in a brick-and-mortar. I wonder if they have different brands in their online store? I'll take a look...

Any favorite brands out there that might be easily available?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 6th, 2019, 09:53 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
they switched her to fluconazole, which did make a noticeable difference.
Fluconazole is off label use in dogs & cats but the use has not been extensively researched. The good thing is it has fewer side effects than other medications. Only one site I found says it has shown skin rashes as a reaction in people as per https://www.petmd.com/pet-medication/fluconazole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
You said that the clerk at the store where you purchased your bottle was emphatic about it being taken INTERNALLY. That raised the question WHY???
My guess would be since it's a supplement store & their online product descriptions do not mention topical applications, the staff probably has only been trained to advise internal use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
On further research I found that the distilled water had also been Ozonated, which means that there was more oxygen added to the water during the manufacturing of the Colloidal.......how much more oxygen is anybody's guess.

With you applying the fluzonatole to the mix with the extra oxygen that was used to make the colloidal, I'm wondering if there is an oxidization to some of the components in the fluzonatole giving off the red colouring.
Sounds reasonable, especially with the medication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
This was the only colloidal silver that I could find in a brick-and-mortar. I wonder if they have different brands in their online store? I'll take a look...

Any favorite brands out there that might be easily available?
The US GNC site has another brand but it has Potassium Alginate & EDTA in it, personally I prefer a pure product.

I order mine online from Glacier Peak Holistics, they're from Montana.
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 7th, 2019, 12:49 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
The fluconazole is the only thing that's had any effect on the rash at all--it sure would be sad if it ended up giving her another one! But it doesn't seem to be--it looks darker when I use the colloidal silver, but it also looks darker if I just use regular water Once it dries, it looks better.

One thing the dermatologist found was that she has a couple of small, benign, hemangiomas on her skin and hemangiomas will sometimes do something to the capillaries to make them darker (hubby talked to her, so I don't know exactly what she said). She said, though, that it's possible the rash is from that phenomenon. She only extended the fluconazole prescription because it seemed to help and she wanted to cover all bases. We're going to reevaluate after 30 days and decide whether to discontinue the fluconazole.

Thanks for looking all that stuff up, g~G! Our connection is better, but still pretty slow!

I'll check out Glacier Peak Holistics
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 7th, 2019, 02:48 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
Wish I could advise a manufacturer for you but I haven't accessed Colloidal Silver in a store for personal use. I have purchased it several times but to do tests to compare it with my own product.

I purchased my own lab equipment the best part of 20 years ago after doing extensive research in producing a quality product at that time.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 7th, 2019, 08:33 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Do you still make it?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 7th, 2019, 09:15 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
One thing the dermatologist found was that she has a couple of small, benign, hemangiomas on her skin and hemangiomas will sometimes do something to the capillaries to make them darker (hubby talked to her, so I don't know exactly what she said). She said, though, that it's possible the rash is from that phenomenon.
Ah I think that's your answer

Hemangiomas are small masses of blood vessels, they can give the appearance of blood blisters, so if the tiny ends of the tiny capillaries become damaged & break/burst there will be a small amount of blood pooling just under the skin giving it a darker look before the clotting factor takes effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
Wish I could advise a manufacturer for you but I haven't accessed Colloidal Silver in a store for personal use. I have purchased it several times but to do tests to compare it with my own product.

I purchased my own lab equipment the best part of 20 years ago after doing extensive research in producing a quality product at that time.
Reg - a bona fide scientist
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 7th, 2019, 10:48 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
yes I still make my own. at one time I was toying with producing for retail sales but between my age and government specs requiring an NPN ( Nutritional Product Number ) for supplements sold here in Canada, and the costs associated with it, I decided I would make it just for personal use.

Growler has me pretty well pegged. Science has always been intriguing to me.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 8th, 2019, 11:55 AM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Dang! I was gonna hit you up for a sample!

I've always wondered--what do you use for a silver source? Can you just buy particulate silver somewhere?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old August 8th, 2019, 06:45 PM
Reg's Avatar
Reg Reg is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
Posts: 401
As we wrote the note last night, it was something we were wondering about.......how do we get some to you.

It came at an opportune time as I am making up a few litres today and tomorrow. So we'll get in touch with you through other means.
__________________
Animals are such agreeable Friends.
They ask no Questions. They pass no Criticisms.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old August 8th, 2019, 09:33 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 52,990
Oh, that would be marvelous!
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 PM.