Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 6th, 2007, 10:53 PM
Smiley14's Avatar
Smiley14 Smiley14 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 2,424
Day Three on Timberwolf...

And so far so good! He's getting 1/2 cups of the TO Black forest with some Canidae mixed in as we're still weeding it out and one raw chicken medallion. I crumbled one of the freeze-dried venision medallions over his food last night and he went crazy! So I think the venision is a big hit!

Still a bit gassy, but it's not actually nearly as bad, so I hope that's a good sign that in a few more weeks of adjustment, he'll be back to his old self again.

But wow, does that TO have a funky smell! Phew! Petey sure loves it though!
__________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 6th, 2007, 10:53 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Cool. Thanks for the update. I kind of want to know how doggies do on TO.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 6th, 2007, 11:05 PM
Smiley14's Avatar
Smiley14 Smiley14 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 2,424
Oops, just realized I had a typo there. That's 1 1/2 cups, not half a cup he's getting each day! LOL! He's been cut back from two cups a day because he got a little chubby on the Canidae. And according to TO, you feed almost half the amount that you feed with normal food. So I'm not quite sure how much to feed him exactly. I'm just guessing and will adjust as needed I suppose!

But anyway, I'll let you know how it goes, but so far so good! I think the gas has been cut in half so far. Poor Petey!
__________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 6th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
lol funny because I read it 1 1/2 anyway.

You'll just have to guage the amount by his weight and his stool too (soft stool = maybe too much food).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 6th, 2007, 11:13 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,757
When I was feeding it I thought it had kind of a "spicey" (cinnamon?)smell.

Glad it's working out for you....hope it continues.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 7th, 2007, 01:22 AM
Smiley14's Avatar
Smiley14 Smiley14 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin View Post
lol funny because I read it 1 1/2 anyway.

You'll just have to guage the amount by his weight and his stool too (soft stool = maybe too much food).
Oh, good to know, thanks! I'm afraid I don't normally pay much attention since I have a pooper scooper come every week. But I'll start checking it out. LOL!


I don't know how to describe that smell, it just smells raw/sharp to me. Probably just really fresh! LOL!
__________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 7th, 2007, 03:14 PM
OntarioGreys's Avatar
OntarioGreys OntarioGreys is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodstock, ON
Posts: 1,696
Quote:
And according to TO, you feed almost half the amount that you feed with normal food. So I'm not quite sure how much to feed him exactly. I'm just guessing and will adjust as needed I suppose!
The amount needed will vary depending on what you were feeding prior, if I went from EVO to TO I would likely need to feed more TO not less, Canidae is fairly high calories so probably won't be able to feed 1/2 as much look at the calories per cup between the 2 foods that should give you sort of an idea on the amount to reduce

Do you mind if I ask why you are changing foods in particular going from Canidae which has more meat less grains and is almost 100% organic at a lot less cost to feed?
__________________
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Unknown

Last edited by OntarioGreys; February 7th, 2007 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 7th, 2007, 06:28 PM
Smiley14's Avatar
Smiley14 Smiley14 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 2,424
Sorry, OG, that was a in a different thread, I should have clarified that!

The reason I'm trying the switch is because the Canidae didn't seem to agree with Petey. He has never been a gassy dog on any other food, but in the four months he was in the Canidae, it got progressively worse. He was literally passing gas every 10 minutes and scaring himself and waking himself up constantly, it was so loud and awful.

So I started a search for a new organic food to try and with the help of others here, settled on TO with supplemental raw medallions. The vet suggested a complete food switch rather than just digestive enzyme since he's never had problems prior to the Canidae. I haven't tried the digestive enzyme yet, but I probably will add that in as well just in case. But first, I'm just curious to see if I can reduce the gas on food alone, as he has been on three other brands of food prior to the Canidae and had never had any problems before at all. I used to think he had an iron stomach because he never seemed to be affected by what he ate or by food switches. Not so much at the moment though.

So far, it's now been four days and the gas has already been drastically reduced. He's still getting some Candiae as we're still in the switch process, but it does seem to be the cause for whatever reason. I can't say for sure yet until I finish the switch and see how he does, but so far, it's looking pretty good for the TO.

He was getting two cups a day of the Canidae, but gained too much weight. So I've cut him back to 1 1/2 cups of the TO. According to their packaging and his weight, he could be getting 2-4 cups per day, so I'm playing it by ear at the moment as to the amount. He is also getting a little bit of supplemental raw with the 1 1/2 cups, so even that may be too much. That's the part I'm unsure how to calculate, with the raw and kibble mix being new to me.

Petey was at his ideal weight of 57 pounds before the Canidae, but got up to 62 pounds. So now we're trying to lose those five pounds (they added unattractive fat rolls around his neck ) and then maintain the 57 pound range. He seems to have a slow metabolism or thyroid issues, although all his tests have come back normal. The vet isn't sure why he would gain 5 pounds in 4 months on only 2 cups a day and daily walks. She said some dogs are just like that. Not sure if that answers your question or not, but that's where we're at right now!
__________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley

Last edited by Smiley14; February 7th, 2007 at 06:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 8th, 2007, 11:39 AM
mafiaprincess's Avatar
mafiaprincess mafiaprincess is offline
Performance Spaniels
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby, ON
Posts: 2,395
Cider's happier to be off the 1/2 and 1/2 TO and Merrick's. She suddenly enjoys her food again, and her poop was great the whole time, but it's a little better without the Merrick's. Down to like half a bag, don't know what I'll do then
__________________
CRB Houdini's Apple Cider RXMCL AGDC AADC MSDC MJDC RNT CL3-F CL3-H EXJ Bronze
Stanton Acres Out Of The Ashes SGDC RNMCL MJDC ADC CL3-F CL3-S CL3-H
Stark Naked Burn it to the Ground
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old February 8th, 2007, 02:09 PM
RickyRiccardo RickyRiccardo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 11
Thumbs up Timberwolf Organics!!!

The food is amazing and smells great, her stools are perfect and since we switched from Solid Gold Wolf Cub and Wolf king to T.O her butt doesn`t smell salmon fish and T.O is not at all grainy like Solid Gold.... I bought her 3 bags of Bison and 1 bag of Lamb and barley formula...... Wow!!!!!

For me Timberwolf Organics = thumbs way up!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old February 8th, 2007, 11:15 PM
Smiley14's Avatar
Smiley14 Smiley14 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 2,424
That's great to hear such positive feedback on the, TO! Thanks guys!!!
__________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old February 9th, 2007, 03:17 PM
OntarioGreys's Avatar
OntarioGreys OntarioGreys is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodstock, ON
Posts: 1,696
Quote:
So I started a search for a new organic food to try and with the help of others here, settled on TO with supplemental raw medallions


From dog food project, scroll to the bottom of the page

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=organic
__________________
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old February 9th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Smiley14's Avatar
Smiley14 Smiley14 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 2,424
Hmm, perhaps I'm using the word organic incorrectly and should be using holistic or good quality instead. From the little bit I've gandered here and from looking at that link just now, the foods that rank high on the "organic" list tend to rank lower in the "meat as main ingredient" list. Is this correct? I have trouble understanding how a food choice would be better quality than TO just because it more fits the organic label but it has little actual meat in it. Am I completely misunderstanding this??

Bottom line, I cannot keep feeding Canidae as it does not agree with Petey. I am trying TO as it seems to be a good quality food, with high meat content and less grain/fillers. Which I thought was the most important? Or is there some organic vs quality debate I've unknowingly stumbled into? LOL! I am open to trying different brands, I just want good quality.
__________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does. --Christopher Morley
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old February 24th, 2007, 12:30 PM
stergeR's Avatar
stergeR stergeR is offline
Jr.DogOwner
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 48
my girl on her second pack(1.8kg) of TW lamb at the moment.
must say its great food with strong herbal smell.. everything is great on her first pack. but recently on her second pack, stool become real hard and she seems to take a longer time to do her business. sigh..
__________________
Pony In Dogster . www.dogster.com/?296158

Last edited by stergeR; February 24th, 2007 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old February 24th, 2007, 02:14 PM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
[QUOTE=Smiley14;370145]
Hmm, perhaps I'm using the word organic incorrectly and should be using holistic or good quality instead. From the little bit I've gandered here and from looking at that link just now, the foods that rank high on the "organic" list tend to rank lower in the "meat as main ingredient" list. Is this correct? I have trouble understanding how a food choice would be better quality than TO just because it more fits the organic label but it has little actual meat in it. Am I completely misunderstanding this??
No, you are not misunderstanding this, due to the availability and price (generally) or organic meats. Hormone-free (we don't use hormones on chickens in Canada) antibiotic free (alot of human grade chickens are like this) and cage free, are a great second best.
NZ Lamb is the best, no sure we have a supply of organic lamd here.
Depending on what you think makes a quality food, thisd could be a debate. Around here everyone is high meat and preferably in the form of meal as the first ingredient, as it provides around 66% crude protein. Some people like "meat" first, it supplies only 16% crude protein (generally)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old February 24th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Hmm.. Organic meat for my pets when I don't eat organic meat myself... Don't think so. At least not yet anyway.

I might be joining the TO club... My dog food store said they'd get me the Dakota Bison if I really wanted it, and I decided I want it.. There's only so much you can supplement before you decide maybe it's the food that needs changing...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old February 24th, 2007, 07:07 PM
rainbow's Avatar
rainbow rainbow is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beautiful BC's Kootenay Country
Posts: 34,757
That's good news, Prin....you'll have to start a new thread to keep us updated. I just bought a bag of TO's Wild & Natural to mix in with their Innova.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Emmalou Emmalou is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10
I don't think Canidae has one certified organic ingredient in any of it's foods. If it did, it would be a heck of a lot more expensive.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:11 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
http://www.canidae.com/ingredients/thefinest.html <-- check that out...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:13 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Hey, you know what though, there's a difference between "hormone free", say, and "organic". Most of the hormones are already gone by the time the animal is killed, and the trace amounts left could probably legally be excluded and the meat becomes "free" of hormones...
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:39 PM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
SO true! Kinda like that fat free thing, is still has some fats, but can be called "fat free"
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:40 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
If it was organic, no doubt they would say it all over the place, right?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old February 25th, 2007, 09:32 AM
Emmalou Emmalou is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10
I think meats can legally be called hormone free or antibiotic free if the hormone or antibiotic supplementation was removed within a certain period of time before the animal is slaughtered. I don't know the exact time period though. No doubt if Canidae contained organic ingredients it would be plastered all over their site and bags.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old February 25th, 2007, 12:16 PM
OntarioGreys's Avatar
OntarioGreys OntarioGreys is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodstock, ON
Posts: 1,696
Canidae, if you notice they are not using the words human grade or hormone free, all over other their bags either but if they malke the claim on their website it had better be so or they could be faced with major law suits for false advertising.

By law they cannot claim to be organic unless they have 95% or or more organic content, and their is strict labeling guidelines

A food can be label as have organic content but must be greater than 70% organic, and strict rules apply

Exmaple meat meal is not allowed to be called organic even to the meat used to create was, if used in a food that is certified as having organic content, then it must be used in under 30% non organic content, therefore certified organic foods have a very low meat content.


Canidae's main ingredients are hormone, antibiotic and pesticide free, so the bulk is , but when you get to herring eggs, alfafa, apples , cranberries, flax they are no longer listed as human grade, antibiotic free or pesticide free being they use a lot of meal sourced from hormone, antibiotic free and human meats they therefore cannot meet legal percent requirements cannot make claims on their bag or even use the words organic.

Labelling guidelines are great for the most part but they do become restrictive when dealing with quality of ingredients used since producers are unable to label as such. Which kind of sucks for consumers since they cannot tell simply from reading the ingredient lists on the bags.

So a consumer then needs to, if they are concerned about the level of quality of meat and grains needs to source the info from the producers website.

This is one of the reasons I do like Canidae as a pet food, they could have gone the route of most companies and figure if I can't advertising the quality of my ingredients in the ingredient list than why spend the extra buying high grade meats and grains to put them in.

If Canidae ever came out with a high protein, grain free food I would be bailing out on EVO if it agreed with my gang, because I know when I went to EVO I was forced to sacrifice the high human grade quality for feed grades
__________________
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Unknown

Last edited by OntarioGreys; February 25th, 2007 at 01:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old February 25th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
OG, they do say human grade on their website, and in the list where they're bragging about their ingredients (the one I posted above), they could put "organic" ingredient by ingredient, as they do with the human grade, but they don't. So it's not organic. That's not to say it's bad- most of the meats are human grade meats, which is great, but it's not flaming expensive because said meats aren't organic.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old February 25th, 2007, 05:09 PM
OntarioGreys's Avatar
OntarioGreys OntarioGreys is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodstock, ON
Posts: 1,696
Okay my mistake with using the term organic, which I said in the first response to this thread, the grains they use being grown pesticide free can be classed as organic since they are tested to be free of pesticide residue, but to be actually called organic it would have to be certified and certification requires soil and water testing and a paper trail as well.

the meats are human grade, antibiotic and hormone free( alot of meat sold in grocery stores do not meet that standard of being antibiotic and hormone free) but to be called organic would also require that they are fed organically feed

This here is what is required for meats to labeled as organic

http://www.berettaorganics.com/organic/


From the United States Standards for Livestock and Meat Marketing Claims

For meat to be labelled and the term used as Antibiotic free
Quote:
1. No antibiotics used, or Raised without antibiotics: livestock have never received antibiotics from birth to harvest.
if used than the term "no detectable antibiotic residue"

then
Quote:
• All antibiotics are withdrawn at least 30 days beyond the minimum FDA withdrawal requirement and,
• Livestock and meat products contain no detectible antibiotic residue as verified by statistical sampling analysis using a science based testing protocol.
For meat to hormone free

Quote:
Hormone Claims: Background: Hormones * are synthetic or naturally occurring compounds which have been shown to improve gain or feed efficiency, stimulate growth, and/or control reproductive activity. Since all plants and animals produce hormones, a “hormone-free” plant or meat product is a misnomer and a “hormone-free” marketing claim cannot be made. However, since some customers prefer meat products from animals that have not received supplemental hormones and some markets restrict the sale of hormone-treated product, the following claims and standards will be recognized.
Claim and Standards:
1. No supplemental hormones * used, raised without supplemental hormones *, or no added hormones *: the livestock have never received supplement hormones from birth to harvest.
2. No hormones * administered during finishing: the livestock have not received supplemental hormones during the feeding/finishing period.
• *: The terms “hormone,” “growth promotant,” “growth stimulant,” and “implant” are used interchangeably.

For a chicken or turkey to be raised antibiotic free they need be raised free range, otherwise in overcrowded barn condition a disease could wipe out the entire lot of birds, so they are raised in the same sort of conditions as an organic chicken/turkey the real difference is the land raise on for organic must be tested proven to have had no pesticided used on it forth past 3 years and water and soil samples must be taken regularily in order to pass certification and paper records must be kept.
Conditions from sheep to be farmed antibiotic free would have to be the same.

So technically the meat could end up being exactly the same only for organic much more paperwork and testing must be done to prove must be and that is where the extra costs come from.
One of my dads friends has a free range turkey operation and with all th turkey dropping their is absolutely no need to fertilize they produce more than enough nitrogen, and no farmer going to drive a large tractor carrying pestcide spraying equipment thru a few thousand birds on the fields. So anyfree range operation is going to pretty much meet organic stardards even without certification.
__________________
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old February 25th, 2007, 05:20 PM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
Human Grade

The terminology "human grade" is not allowed on packaging in the US, or any food sold into the US, as AAFCO (and the FDA) have not decided what human grade means. I guess the big question that they have in their mind in that a manufacturer can use meat fit for human consumption, but then what if it doesn't get used right away, or sits out without refrigeration (I doubt that happens). So, unless, or until, they decide what that means, it is only allowed on websites, flyers etc, not bags.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old February 26th, 2007, 08:14 PM
Euphoric Euphoric is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: GTA
Posts: 3
so do you guys like canidae or what?

i think its decently priced and a good choice. Ive recently moved and dont have access to timberwolf anymore so ive made the switch to candidae. its easy to find, decent food and not too pricey. It also sits well with my puppy..lol 12 years old.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old February 26th, 2007, 09:53 PM
Scott_B's Avatar
Scott_B Scott_B is offline
Rosco, Raw Fed & LOVES IT
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,268
Caniadae is an excellent kibble
__________________
Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old February 26th, 2007, 11:53 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
It's great! We're just debating the usual sneaky dog food tactics.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.