Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog training - dog behavior

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 27th, 2009, 09:49 PM
Bailey_'s Avatar
Bailey_ Bailey_ is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,722
Sad situation...

I was just contacted this evening by a woman who wants me to assess her american bulldog.

The dog apparently bit a young boy that had been at the house all evening for a bbq. From what I'm told, the dog has displayed dominance aggression towards other dogs, but never a human before. The incident occured when the boy tried to walk from the basement to the main level, up the stairs, and pass the dog.

The doctor who looked at the boy assessed him and did not think it was an aggressive bite, considering there was no tearing (just punctures). Regardless, the owners are reasonably distraught and are at a loss at how to proceed - whether or not euthanasia should be considered. The wife is on the fence, and the husband thinks it needs to happen.

I'll be assessing the dog this week and hopefully will be able to help the owners take a positive step from there...I'm just curious if anyone else has had to deal with this situation? Potentially advising loving owners to put their dog down?
All the aggressive dogs I've delt with before have never had to be euthanized...I don't want to break that streak now, but this dogs history - coupled with this situation - makes me nervous...
__________________
~B~
"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater. . . suggest that he wear a tail."

Bailey (Labradoodle)
Tippy (Collie/ShepX)
Vali (American Bulldog)
Artiro (Cane Corso)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 27th, 2009, 10:15 PM
Dee-O-Gee's Avatar
Dee-O-Gee Dee-O-Gee is offline
You can call me DOG!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Niagara, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,645
This happened to us many years ago with our very first dog, a dalmation. While she never nipped at our girls, their friends (4 feet and under) were fair game according to her mind.

After the first nip, we were advised that she should attend obedience classes--so off we went. While she was extremely obedient, the nipping still continued. Theres a big difference between being obedient versus dominance. She was absolutely remarkable with the training and obedience. I could command her to sit, stay, walk around the whole perimeter of my yard and come back to where she was still sitting without movement.

I'll never forget a situation with one little boy. He (the boy) was walking around Coco (our dalmation) and you could literally see her scoping his distance. The exact moment the little boy was within reach, she nipped his leg. No blood or broken skin but it surely did raise eyebrows with the rest of the gathering.

Ultimately through some friends, we found a young couple willing to adopt her on a signed condition that she not be near young children.

Good luck with the assessment Bailey. Hopefully there will be positive results
__________________
A dog wags his tail with his heart
Dogs have Masters--Cats have Staff

Rest in Peace Bailey: 12/10/95-1/9/09 (Golden Retriever)
Rest in Peace Kitty: 7/1/2000 - 10/7/2013
Rest in Peace Gryphon (sounds like Griffin): 10/15/2004 - 11/18/2017 (English Springer Spaniel)
Bella: 3/09/2005 LHD Cat adopted by/from Child
Mollie: 6/2/2009 (English Setter)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 28th, 2009, 08:53 AM
Lynne_B's Avatar
Lynne_B Lynne_B is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 76
Just try and get as much information about the situation as possible. The dog may be aggressive, the kid may have inadvertantly encouraged the bite to happen. Either way I'm sure it'll take some work to get to the bottom of why it happened. I wish you the best, I hope there's a happy ending, but if there isn't, all you can do is help get them some closure by helping them understand why it happened.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 28th, 2009, 09:03 AM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
Kitty pimp
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: paterson new jersey
Posts: 4,788
best of luck
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 31st, 2009, 02:29 AM
MyBirdIsEvil's Avatar
MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,720
This really sounds kind of like it could be an issue with the owners.

The dog has displayed dominance aggression towards other dogs and in my experience that can easily turn into the same towards people when not addressed, ESPECIALLY younger children which dogs often don't see in the same way as an adult. The dog probably shouldn't have been put in the position of being out loose around children in such an overstimulating enviroment, like a BBQ. I also notice young boys are bad about eliciting a negative reaction from dogs if the adults just happen to not be looking, because they're rambunctious and tend to be physical with animals (sometimes they just don't realize they're doing it, sometimes they do, but it's why children should never be left out of sight with someone's dog).

You sound like you have a good idea of what you're going into though, so I agree, just assess as much of the situation as possible and hopefully the dog/owners can be helped rather than having to euthanize. Sometimes it does have to be done though, some dogs just are unpredictable no matter what.
My mother in law is in the situation right now where we just can't do anything with one of her dogs because he shows no warning signs when about to exhibit aggression and is unpredictable as to who he exhibits it towards...used to only be dogs now people, if he feels you're being too dominant with him....he's about 12 yrs old and over 100 lbs St Bernard mix, very dangerous if he just lost it and attacked. I think he may actually be losing his mind at this point (based on other behaviors), so I don't think there's much of choice. She knows what she should do and doesn't want to, but he's just not safe for anyone to be around, so it's sad. Her other dogs are also in danger because he's always shown dog aggression but now it's gotten even worse. The only thing keeping him from killing one of them is that he's not in good enough shape to catch them usually.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 1st, 2009, 05:49 PM
Bailey_'s Avatar
Bailey_ Bailey_ is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,722
Thanks for your thoughts everyone! I assessed the dog yesterday and was *quite* surprised by how aggressive he was towards the tests and myself.

I made it quite clear that euthinization was up to them, however in my personal opinion I would never EVER let their animal be around my family *or* my dogs, and that took them both aback.

They admitted to really playing down his aggression in the house and out, the husband even saying: "We want him to be like this for protection."

I assured him that just having a dog would be protection enough.

They also have bred him to their female, who is expecting her first litter in September. After our discussion they agreed to have their male spayed which was one good thing out of the assessment. I will also be assessing the puppies for them, and have advised that ALL pups be adopted out on neuter/spay contracts and go to families with experience in large breed dogs.

(The family of the little boy that was bitten was ironically there to see the dogs and put a deposit down for a puppy. They are now getting a cat.)
__________________
~B~
"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater. . . suggest that he wear a tail."

Bailey (Labradoodle)
Tippy (Collie/ShepX)
Vali (American Bulldog)
Artiro (Cane Corso)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 1st, 2009, 09:34 PM
MadeleineI MadeleineI is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Perth, W Australia
Posts: 22
Aggression in dogs is ALWAYS man made. Unconsciously we confuse our dogs so much they can become aggressive. The all out best dog trainer for all dogs is most definitely Jane Fennell, the Dog Listener. She talks 'dog', gets to the route of the problem and sorts out huge problems.

Last edited by Ford; August 2nd, 2009 at 07:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 1st, 2009, 11:08 PM
Luvmypitgirls's Avatar
Luvmypitgirls Luvmypitgirls is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: High River Alberta
Posts: 2,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeleineI View Post
Aggression in dogs is ALWAYS man made. Unconsciously we confuse our dogs so much they can become aggressive. The all out best dog trainer for all dogs is most definitely Jane Fennell, the Dog Listener. She talks 'dog', gets to the route of the problem and sorts out huge problems.
I'm sorry I do not agree with the statement that "Aggression in dogs is ALWAYS man made".
Nothing personal, I just don't agree.
__________________
Abigail~ APBT~ 2
Jersey ~ APBT~5(ish)
Kato ~Rottie~ 5&1/2
Wendellan~ Feline~ 10(ish)
Theedee~Feline~10(ish)
"Da-Goob"~ APBT/Dogo x (5-6ish)


"My Pitbulls are better behaved than your kids!" (my favorite bumper sticker)

Last edited by Ford; August 2nd, 2009 at 07:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 2nd, 2009, 12:00 AM
Bailey_'s Avatar
Bailey_ Bailey_ is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 1,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeleineI View Post
Aggression in dogs is ALWAYS man made. Unconsciously we confuse our dogs so much they can become aggressive. The all out best dog trainer for all dogs is most definitely Jane Fennell, the Dog Listener. She talks 'dog', gets to the route of the problem and sorts out huge problems.
I highly disagree with this statement as well.

SOME aggressions are enabled, usually unknowingly, by owners; I'll give you that.

However there are many dogs that are predisposed to certain types of aggression FROM BIRTH, regardless of their environment/handling/owners. This has to do with excitatory neuro transmitters in their brain, hormones, etc.

NOT their people.
__________________
~B~
"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater. . . suggest that he wear a tail."

Bailey (Labradoodle)
Tippy (Collie/ShepX)
Vali (American Bulldog)
Artiro (Cane Corso)

Last edited by Ford; August 2nd, 2009 at 07:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 2nd, 2009, 11:25 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey_ View Post
I highly disagree with this statement as well.

SOME aggressions are enabled, usually unknowingly, by owners; I'll give you that.

However there are many dogs that are predisposed to certain types of aggression FROM BIRTH, regardless of their environment/handling/owners. This has to do with excitatory neuro transmitters in their brain, hormones, etc.

NOT their people.
I concur. After seeing quite a few dogs in my time, there are occassions when a dog as a pup was raised in excellent families, with excellent conditions and always with care. I certainly could not blame the families for the aggression I have seen in some dogs. Bad breeding can be the culprit. Let's not forget, as humans there are those that are born with 'off' wiring which had nothing to do with their upbringing....so why not animals? Animals are not given the free pass to be born perfect only to spoil due to upbringing.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 4th, 2009, 12:56 AM
MyBirdIsEvil's Avatar
MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,720
The majority of dog aggression is caused by how they are raised, but many dogs have issues from birth. Some of those dogs can still be ok pets with the right family and if you know what triggers to stay away from and some are just too unpredictable.

My mother in law's dog is probably one of those. It's hard to say how he would have been with a so called "perfect" family and "perfect" training, but there's just something amiss with the way his brain operates.
A dog that goes from happy go lucky and sweet, calm and submissive body language one second to just suddenly attacking with no warning (and believe me, I know the cues) is not necessarily that way because of the family. When the animal is unpredictable 99% of the time there's not a whole lot of training you can do because you don't catch the behavior until after it has already happened, so how is it corrected? You can't correct a dog that's gone from completely normal behavior to trying to kill something within a fraction of a second with no inbetween. The only thing you can do with that kind of dog is remove it from any situation where it might be a liability.

I do believe that the majority of dogs can have their behavior modified by training, but some are just plain mentally unstable.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.