german shepherd

[Lucky Rescue]

..and practice this with taking his food bowl away, do not flinch if he trys to bite, gently grab his snout and re-affirm with a loud "NO, NO BITE"..

I have to disagree with this. I do NOT recommend taking food away and grabbing the snout of a snarling dog (no matter HOW gently). YOU may be 100% sure your dog would never bite, but many people would get bitten doing this. The original poster does think her dog would bite.

It's better in the long run to teach the dog that having you near his food is a positive thing.

JMO

[mona_b]

PLEASE PLEASE Absolutely no whacking or hitting or dragging.....You do this to a 4 month old GSD and YOU are asking for trouble in the long run....You would be putting MAJOR fear in this little guy...Something that should never be done with a GSD....Or any other breed...

Geez I hate it when people give advise like that...It's wrong advise...

[MBRA518]

Originally Posted by Bill & Bob

Now if I could only teach him not to run over to grumpy old men with little dogs in the park and get them started yelling at him that would be great.

Humm.. yah when you fiqure that one out... let me know please...

[Karin]

Originally Posted by LuckyRescue

I have to disagree with this. I do NOT recommend taking food away and grabbing the snout of a snarling dog (no matter HOW gently). YOU may be 100% sure your dog would never bite, but many people would get bitten doing this. The original poster does think her dog would bite.

It's better in the long run to teach the dog that having you near his food is a positive thing.

JMO

Did I say snarling? I believe I did not...I also would not let it get that far either, if snarling or growls have come about than someone has the so called "upper hand" in the household and it's not me....I have been snarled at, threatened and bit..many times but only once by some of my roommates, Ciara included when she was a puppy, never has happened again ...I can take a food bowl at any time..any toy or treat for that matter...it's a matter of trust....never ever whack them....or "grab" their snout, poor choice of words on my part..I think some people know here now what I mean, I am not as articulate as others.

[melanie]

there is never no right or wrong advice, only that what works for some may not work for others. i have used my methods and those of others that I mentioned above and have found them to work well. i have a happy, healthy beautiful dog, who has a fulfilled life and we have a fantastic relationship and she is certainly not afraid of me unless she is busted doing something, then she is not afraid but knows she has done wrong and so acts in the appropriate manner..i would be a bit worried if she didnt act differently when she did something wrong. so it is all what works for each individual situation.

[mona_b]

Phyically training a pup is wrong,,,There is no need for it.

heidiho,please don't use this method of training.Take it from someone who has 2 GSD's and has trained both at the same time....I have never used physical force(hitting,whacking,dragging )...There are other ways of showing who is boss...Also remember he is a pup...If I would have used physical force while training,then there would have been no way my one would have made it to the K9-Unit.

I would suggest puppy obedience classes

[Chany]

Make the dog sit and wait for his food, tell him okay and let him eat in peace.
I don't understand peoples obsession with proving they can take their dogs food away from him. Perhaps thats why he's growling because he thinks you'll take it again, give him time to eat. Try again in a few months to take his bowl if you have to, but until then just let him finish his meal without someone bothering him.
I'm sure he'll calm down he's only 4 months right? And you have no small children around him right? If this is true then just leave him alone you'll both be happier.

[heidiho]

Ok!! I got the hint,no wacking that does make sense,But last night it took 45 minutes to feed him,he just would not sit while i got the food ready,when i finally did get in on floor,i do pet him and say good boy,well that doesnt work,he still got stiff and let out a growl,i took food away ,tried it again,he still growled,this morning i put food down,was standing at kitchen sink he put ears down looked at me and growled,wasnt even messing with his food/// HELP HELP...this dog will NOT give one inch when it comes to his food//

[Chany]

Do you use food training him? Like to sit and such?

[heidiho]

I have also done the food bowl on my lap and hand fed him,he doesnt growl then.ONLY when i try to take food bowl away//

[mona_b]

I was just about to ask the same thing Chany...........

When you are training him to "sit" are you using treats?

The reason he growls is he is protecting his food.

[Chany]

Most animals are possessive over food. You should see my husband and oldest son if they're starving. I can't imagine someone trying to take their food away. I'm sure they'd think it was a joke at first but I'm sure biting might come next!
Just let him eat in peace and definitely work on leader of the pack. But by always taking his food away doesn't cut it. The alpha dog once it lets the rest of the pack eat well I'm sure it doesn't tease the rest of the pack with their food.
Hope this helps.

[heidiho]

Yeah,he gets treats when he gets the ball and brings it back,i have stopped giving treats when he sits or stays i just praise him and tell him good boy guess i should start giving treats again when i do that??

[mona_b]

I would continue giving him the treats when training....To me that's very important.Especially when you want to get his attention and you want him to do what you are teaching him.

[heidiho]

He was doing so good without treats training that is why i just praise him,but will start using the trears again//

[mona_b]

This is a little off topic,but at his age I wouldn't exercise him to much.And I wouldn't let him go up and dpwn the stairs alot...They are prone to Panosteitis...And he is at that age when it starts....My cousins GSD had it at the age of 5 months...It's like a lameness disease....She ended up spending $3.000 on him...He ended up with a fevor,lost weight,on meds,and x-rays....

[Luba]

I guarantee if you use the method that I told you it will take time but it WILL work! He will associate your hands and feeding as being a good thing over time.

Yes it may have taken 45 mins to feed him but so what, you're trying to get a proper training tool used in a positive way. Talk to him while you feed him and give him praise for taking food gently.

As I continue to say make him sit, eventually he will do it on his own.

It will work, it will take time but it will work! Have patience and understand there is a behaviour that has to be 'unlearned' first and that is harder then learning a new positive behavior!

Just be persistent....by the beginning of next week you will be seeing a difference.

BUT don't out of spite start taking his bowl away while he is eating. There is no need or use for it, it's taunting and irritating him. Leave it be, you're not doing any good this way I promise you.

Happy talk, good boy, sit stay,....feed!! repeat!

[Lucky Rescue]

BUT don't out of spite start taking his bowl away while he is eating. There is no need or use for it, it's taunting and irritating him

Exactly. I'd get kinda grumpy too if I never knew when or why my dinner was being snatched from under my nose!

[heidiho]

So you guys are saying stop all together trying to take his food while eating,and Never do it again???? Or just for now.??

[Luba]

Why do you want to take his food away while he is eating? I don't understand?

[heidiho]

I dont either,but i was told i should be able to if i want to take it...I agree i should just let him eat,but people are saying that i am the master so if i want to take the food i should be able to without him growling at me,that is a sign of dominance on his part which should not be allowed,and know that i have tried it i see he is trying to be dominant so i need to let him know i control the food not him// I just wanted to see if i could take it with no problems..

[Luba]

He has to first trust and respect you. By taunting him, taking his food you are aggrivating the situation. Yes you should be able to take the bowl w/o him growling but at this point there is no need to try. First you get him to understand, as he learns things fall into place.

What you also can do is get him a beef bone to chew on, he's prolly teething and needs to anyway. Have him eat it in his crate door open is okay but make sure he stays in his crate to eat it.

Give him 1/2 at a time to chew on it. When you want to take it from him tell him he is a good boy, give him a really good yummie irrisistable piece of treat like a piece of chicken or steak (just a little piece).

Give him the treat and remove the bone telling him he is a good boy, praise him and pat him.

This will start to show him that nothing bad will come from your hands.

[Bill & Bob]

Ok, I hadn't looked at this thread since yesterday and I see some good and bad points. I'm not into physically hitting the dog. When I first got Bob, a friend of mine who owns a dog told me that I would simply have to at times. Me being a new dog owner I took the advice. I gave Bob a little three finger rap on the snout one day when he was getting over excited and ran his teeth over my wrist by mistake. I felt like crap about it after and didn't feel at all good about it and have never done it again. I also don't think it taught him anything, which is the desired goal. If you aren't meeting the desired goal, then the process is ultimately flawed.

As well, you don't want the dog to learn from fear. In my opinion, the dog should never fear you but rather respect your dominance over them. Respect is much different than fear. When I first did some snooping around on the net, I found the Alpha dog boot camp myself and it's great. Somewhere there's a defenition of what it means to be Alpha. It's short and to the point, and it's principle driven. Maintain the principles and things should work out.

There are a few things that concern me from what Heidi is telling us here. Not in a bad way, but something to think about. You've said a few times that you know you are going to get bit. If you are sure you are going to get bit, you shouldn't be doing what you are doing. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Your behaviours will be obvious to the dog. As someone already said, they smell fear and if you are reacting with fear, they've already won the battle.

Another thing is that you have to believe you are the dominant one. Not just try and be dominant. Believe me when I tell you I found that hard at first. At the beginning after I got Bob, I told a friend that I was becoming a great actor in that I felt like I was at times putting one over on him and he was falling for my acting Alpha when I wasn't confident in my Alpha abilities myself. They told me that would never work. Quietly in my own mind I knew they were right. I started working on my own head and eventually convinced myself that I was in control. He is my dog and I am his master. I tell him when to eat, sleep, where to sit, who to play with, who not to play with, I go through doors first, I tell him when to walk nice or when he can roam further away from me, etc. etc.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't have it down 100% but the failure rate certainly has decreased since then. The dog has it's own personality and will make mistakes. That's ok because it's part of growth. I'm a new dog owner and have my own personality and I'm growing too and will make mistakes. But I now am confident in dealing with my dog, and he is confident that I am his boss.
An old prison guard told me one time how he dealt with inmates, and he rarely had to hand out disciplinary action because they respected him.
"Believe in the 4 F's. Firm, fair, friendly, and most importantly don't get F'd with."
Believe in your ability to be the leader before you believe in the dog's ability to learn this on his own.

[heidiho]

Yeah i see what you are saying,I just mean seeing how mad he gets i know the time is gonna come when he does bite...I think i am just gonna leave the food thing alone for now,to me it is kind of wrong because as far as he sees it,here i am after he hasnt eaten in 10 hours giving him his food then taking it,i find that that would be confusing for him,he would not understand why i am doing that//

[Luba]

You can't predict he is going to bite you.

But you can do your best to teach him now. He is young and needs your guidance.

When you say hasn't eaten in 10hrs to you mean because he's been asleep or you've been away?

Your pup should be eating 3/4 times a day, how often are you feeding him?

Sadie is slowly being reduced to 3 full meals and one 1/2 meal and she is 5mons old.

She eats at 7:30am 12:00pm 6:00pm and 10:00 / 10:30pm


When and what are you feeding your dog and how much?

[melanie]

some of you have asked why a dog would need to have food removed- this is why i have to take food away (mainly bones)- firstly i have small children around often, i always seperate her before feeding but there are those moments when i need to know she wont kill someone walking past the bowl. i dont take her food these days (only during her younger years), she is fine with me now touching it (i can add food when she eats ect) and anyone can walk past. when i walk near her bowl or touch it she couldnt care less.
Most importantly- when charlie was younger we had a bad stick accident, a very large stick lodged in ground when thrown and charlie came in and scouped it up, it went through her tounge, down her throat a d through to the base of the tounge, it was horrific, her neck was stuck backwards from the stick and i had to remove it, oh i will never forget the way she screamed poor baby, chill up my spine (the vet thought i was in worse shock than her).
so the stick caused sever nerve damage and she cannot feel most of her tounge, when she finds a bone, (gee those little buggers can hide anywhere) her tounge falls sideways when eating it and she actually eats the tounge. she has had almost half her tounge removed from chewing it and causing it to turn to dead meat (her tounge is now has a square in it). so if charlie gets a bone it is imperative that any human and mainly me can get the bone off her, of course i try and give her something as a replacer but that is not always possible. so yeah there are some pretty good reasons for charlie not to be aggressive over food and there is not so much tounge left so we cant loose anymore, my vet agrees that without her tounge she cant live and that is what i will do anything to avoid. and please dont throw sticks for dogs, my vet has told me many a stick injury story.
just thought i would give a bit of an explanation of some of my reasons. and boy does her tounge look funny, and it is full of little holes that her teeth stick through, i think she looks like a pirate dog

[mona_b]

I was wondering about the feeding also Luba....

GSD'S are prone to Bloat....And it can be life threatening and very expensive with surgery...So yes,3 times a day is right...

Yukon and Tron get fed 2 times a day now...But dry is left out when they get the munchies.....

[heidiho]

My dog eats 2 x a day ..... Was told that by a few vets,do not want the puppy to grown to fast,also gonna take him off puppy food at 6 months because of that reason also

[heidiho]

p.s. he is eating science diet puppy,was on sensitive skin because he bites at himself but that did not help//

[Luba]

Melanie you're absolutely right you do need to be able to take something from the dog or be safe around kids. But kids can never be left alone with a dog EVER.

Right now this pup needs to learn quite a bit, so in time when he learns to trust her it will work out.

People don't realize (not saying in this situation) that teasing a dog to take it's food or bone or treat makes a dog very unpredictable and irritated.

Also, playing games like tug of war are a big no no! It teaches the dog to be aggressive towards us and our hands. Fetch is fine tug of war out of the question.

Mona as for the kibble being left out, Your dogs are adult and well trained ..you know them inside and out and you can do that, ....you know what you're doing With a dog that has these tendancies towards food you can't let them have control over when they eat. And for pups it's not a good idea, they develop control over food patterns and think they are 'alpha'.

Your dogs are well trained Mona and yu can do that.

Sadie has never ever shown me any aggression that way and I still feed her meals and never leave anything down. she gets to chew on her bones and I take them away when I feel she has had enough. BUT she gets a small treat before I take it from her to remind her she is a sweetie and being a good girl. Never had a problem yet, hopefully I never will.