Frustrated about canned food ingredients for CKD cats

[2catsandus]

We recently discovered one of our cats has CKD. We are heartbroken, but dealing with it. We are giving her SubQ injections everyday at home right now. What is troubling is pet food. All of them stink. And what makes matters worse is that the food charts are confusing and different.

I have looked extensively at both of these:
http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Some of the same foods have two completely different numbers. It is very frustrating.

Can I ask you guys what you use for your cats who have CKD? What do you feed them???

Right now we are using several types of food.

Royal Canin RF23 dry, she doesn't like.
K/D dry she eats but I know it's dry and full of garbage
GI32 dry, we use very little of this as it is high in phosphorous and bad protein, but if we do not give it to her her stools are soft. She has been on this for years because she cannot digest things well, but we have severely cut the quantity she gets.
Ziwipeak lamb, this is the only one of the three she eats, and the only canned wet food she eats right now.

I am totally disgusted with the pet food manufacturers, even for healthy pets there are few foods that are actually good.

I would also like to ask what sort of Mackerel we can make for her, I have been told to use the one in oil, however, there are many different ones in oil, so which one is the right one? Can you give me specific brands and websites to buy it from? I was told to use Mackerel with chicken, but what part of the chicken do we use? And how to make it taste good enough that the cat will eat it?

My friend is going to the US next week and I would love to be able to tell him where to go or what to buy for us and bring it back. As we live overseas it is very difficult to actually get things that are better for our cats here.

Any information would be highly appreciated!

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

Can I ask you guys what you use for your cats who have CKD? What do you feed them???

I feed my 20 yr old (has had CKD for over 3 years now) at least 50% raw diet, and the rest is various high protein good quality canned varieties - no prescription crap allowed in my house! I firmly believe one of the worst things to feed any cat, but especially one with a chronic health condition, is a low protein, low quality, plant-based dry food. If your girl likes the Ziwipeak, keep feeding that, it's a great food. Is Weruva available in Taiwan? What about Wellness? Those are decent commercial foods that many cats seem to like. Otherwise, perhaps you could try making your own raw meals, if your kitty will accept that. Not sure why you want to feed mackerel though. I try to stay away from too much fishy food for cats. If it's for the omega3 oil, maybe you can find a fish or krill oil supplement in a soft gel that you can squeeze onto her food (start with a really small amount though as many cats don't like the smell/taste).

[2catsandus]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

I feed my 20 yr old (has had CKD for over 3 years now) at least 50% raw diet, and the rest is various high protein good quality canned varieties - no prescription crap allowed in my house! I firmly believe one of the worst things to feed any cat, but especially one with a chronic health condition, is a low protein, low quality, plant-based dry food. If your girl likes the Ziwipeak, keep feeding that, it's a great food. Is Weruva available in Taiwan? What about Wellness? Those are decent commercial foods that many cats seem to like. Otherwise, perhaps you could try making your own raw meals, if your kitty will accept that. Not sure why you want to feed mackerel though. I try to stay away from too much fishy food for cats. If it's for the omega3 oil, maybe you can find a fish or krill oil supplement in a soft gel that you can squeeze onto her food (start with a really small amount though as many cats don't like the smell/taste).

Hi, and thank you for your reply.

When you say a 50% raw diet, what exactely do you mean? Are you giving your cat human raw meat? or are you providing a canned food for them? Which one?

High protein will elevate BUN in CKD cats. I know cats need protein, but...

The problem with Ziwipeak is that the DMA is at 1.3-1.59% both those websites I gave you above, which I am sure everyone on here knows about, has two different numbers for this food. It is sooooooo frustating!

Weruva is not technically sold here, though we have seen it on various websites, we think someone might be bringing over extra cans, not sure...

Wellness seems not as good as it is still high in phosphorous, or something else, I forgot, my mind is drawing a blank as we have researched way tooo much over the last month. Complete exhustion!

On another forum someone told us they did a canned human mackeral mixed with chicken and their CKD cat lived to 26 years old! They had several kidney problemed cats and it seemed to work, but it seems that they might have forgotten some of what they did as it has been years ago..

We have access to BARF here, but after doing the DMA on it, I found it is the worst of the worst when it comes to phosphorous levels, it's like 3%!!!!!!!! Unbelivable!!!!

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

When you say a 50% raw diet, what exactely do you mean? Are you giving your cat human raw meat?

Well no, not actually human meat. More like human-grade bison, venison, chicken, kangaroo, rabbit..... etc. Fully balanced according to feline nutritional requirements, of course.

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

or are you providing a canned food for them? Which one?

I leave canned food out for free-feeding, but his meals are raw. He gets a huge variety: Wellness, Precise, Nature's Variety, Weruva, Ziwipeak, Eagle Pack, etc. I try to limit the higher phosphorus foods but I'm not terribly anal about it. It's more important to me that he maintain interest in his food, and for him that means lots of variety.

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

High protein will elevate BUN in CKD cats. I know cats need protein, but...

There's more to feeding cats than fixating on a specific lab value. You need to look at the whole cat, how they're doing overall. While a low protein diet may indeed lower BUN levels, at what cost to the rest of the cat?

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

We have access to BARF here, but after doing the DMA on it, I found it is the worst of the worst when it comes to phosphorous levels, it's like 3%!!!!!!!! Unbelivable!!!!

There are ways to lower phosphorus levels in a raw diet. If making your own, you can eliminate the bone and use a calcium supplement instead. Certain types of meat, and certain cuts of those types, may have lower amounts of phosphorus. Adding cooked egg white is a great way to increase protein without increasing phosphorus. I'm able to get a large number of commercial raw diets here that have fantastically lower levels of phosphorus without compromising protein.

[2catsandus]

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

Hi, and thank you for your reply.

When you say a 50% raw diet, what exactely do you mean? Are you giving your cat human raw meat? or are you providing a canned food for them? Which one?

High protein will elevate BUN in CKD cats. I know cats need protein, but...

The problem with Ziwipeak is that the DMA is at 1.3-1.59% both those websites I gave you above, which I am sure everyone on here knows about, has two different numbers for this food. It is sooooooo frustating!

Weruva is not technically sold here, though we have seen it on various websites, we think someone might be bringing over extra cans, not sure...

Wellness seems not as good as it is still high in phosphorous, or something else, I forgot, my mind is drawing a blank as we have researched way tooo much over the last month. Complete exhustion!

On another forum someone told us they did a canned human mackeral mixed with chicken and their CKD cat lived to 26 years old! They had several kidney problemed cats and it seemed to work, but it seems that they might have forgotten some of what they did as it has been years ago..

We have access to BARF here, but after doing the DMA on it, I found it is the worst of the worst when it comes to phosphorous levels, it's like 3%!!!!!!!! Unbelivable!!!!

Yes, human-grade food, :-), so you cook it first or just throw it down for the cat to eat? Recipes? We have never attempted to cook for the cat. We have tried to give her cooked beef and salmon and she smells it and walks away.

Can you send me to a link on the Nature's Variety's website so I can see specifically which ones you are giving your cat? There are three different types of wet canned cat food on their site and it's confusing.

It seems you use no dried food at all. You leave wet food out all day or all night? The can usually says 30 minutes, we don't follow that either, but max is usaully around 4 hours. It's very humid here, so we have to be careful.

Thanks.

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

Yes, human-grade food, :-), so you cook it first or just throw it down for the cat to eat?

No cooking. I add some warm water to it so that it isn't cold from the fridge, but it really is a raw meat diet. Not all cats accept it right away. My kittens did, but it took my old guy quite a long time before he was actually eager to eat raw. Now it's his favourite thing ever.

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

Recipes?

Honestly, I rarely have time to make the food myself.... I mostly buy frozen commercial meals these days. Here is some really great info though, if you're interested in researching home-made raw diets a bit more:
http://feline-nutrition.org/
http://feline-nutrition.org/health/d...-urinary-tract
http://www.holisticat.com/rawrecipe.html

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

We have tried to give her cooked beef and salmon and she smells it and walks away.

Typical. That's how my cat was too. It can take a great deal of patience and perseverance to convince a finicky feline that you aren't trying to poison them when you try to introduce something new to their diet. Some tips on how to overcome that here:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...et-part-1.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...et-part-2.aspx
http://feline-nutrition.org/nutritio...-to-a-raw-diet

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

Can you send me to a link on the Nature's Variety's website so I can see specifically which ones you are giving your cat?

The NV Instinct version is what I feed my CKD/diabetic cat. http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/all

The other younger cats also get the Prairie Homestyle flavours, but those do contain some grain and are higher in carbs. http://www.naturesvariety.com/Prairie/cat/can/all

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

It seems you use no dried food at all.

No kibble for my kitties, ever. I do put some outside for the ferals, but that's because I can't leave wet food outside too long or it attracts bugs in the summer and freezes in the winter. Plus, the ferals are also hunters so their diet is augmented with fresh prey.

Originally Posted by 2catsandus

You leave wet food out all day or all night? The can usually says 30 minutes, we don't follow that either, but max is usaully around 4 hours. It's very humid here, so we have to be careful.

Ya, you do have to tailor it to your environment, but I have no problem leaving canned out for many hours here, indoors. All my cats have eaten it even up to 12 hrs later with never a problem (that's my max though). Every situation is different so you have to make the call on that one.

[2catsandus]

We tried raw meat and cooked meat, she doesn't like it. We can't wait for her to eat it because if she doesn't eat then we have yet another problem. I am going to try steaming some food and see what happens. It should retain the taste and smell.

Thank you for all the links. I will do some reading.

Ok so you are giving the canned not bagged version of Instinct. We actually tried this last year and she didn't like it. Strange because she will eat Ziwipeak.

Can I ask you what is the average temperature and humidity in your house in the summer and winter? We also have bug issues, but not so severe if we keep a lid on the garbage and throw it out everyday.

I have been reading a lot of things that make me feel sad. Many websites say that giving Sub-Q injections will only work for about 2-12 months at which time the cat will decline very fast, some people say just within a few hours. It just makes me wonder if Sub-Qs are really the best thing for her. Her fluid intake from the extra water we give her in the canned food is about 40-60ml per day, plus the 120ml SubQ everyday. I don't want to give her anymore than 200ml a day, I feel it is overkill, she is only around 4kg. I just don't know what else to do..