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Old April 28th, 2009, 06:30 AM
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Two dogs fighting over female

Hi there

I just wanted to know if we are allowed to put a post up about a dog that needs a home.

I'm in a big mess now.
My mother dog was put down on March 27. One of her pup from her first litter. I took it back as the owner was miss treating him. The owner worked to much and didn't have enough time. He was left in the cage to long.

Well now. I have the father and now Tubby.

Well my friend can't keep the pup that she bought from us. ( one of Jazzmin's Pup from her last litter). Now I will be getting her soon. Well the problem is that the charlie (father) and Tubby are now fighting when she comes around to play.
So I don't know what is going to happen once Tubby is fixed. I don't really know if the Dominance for power in the house.
Now Bella is in heat so she can't come over until I get Tubby fixed. I don't want him to go. I do'nt know what to do. I so confused. Tubby was the 1st born. she was born on my pillow. Jazz (mother that was put down) didn't know what to do either. So she climbed up on my bed and show me.

I don't know what to do

Please HELP!!!! I don't know what to do.

I want to keep all three of them but I know that I can't
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Deanta R.I.P April 2000 - July 10, 2002
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Old April 28th, 2009, 09:51 AM
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two normally friendly unaltered males will battle for breeding rights on a female. neutering one of the will definitely help the situation as then you will only have one male with hormones flowing. The altered male will give over the breeding position more freely as he will not have the hormones telling him to fight for the position. the process will take a few months after the neutering as it takes time for the body to clear out the remaining hormones.
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Old April 28th, 2009, 11:28 AM
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I kinda don't understand the question.. You are wondering why they are fighting? Sorry, I am too tired! lol... Is getting ALL of them fixed an option? That will probably solve everything.. And make them a much happier pet. They just want to be your best friends they don't need to worry about horemones and heat cycles, and all the health issues that are possible.. I don't see any need for any more puppies, my suggestion is to get both males, and the female fixed.. All will be better..
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Old April 29th, 2009, 08:59 PM
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I want to ask you, why aren't the dogs fixed? They WILL fight over a female... Not only there is already an over-population of mix-breed dogs as well as purebreds in our shelters and rescues, not only they are being put to sleep every single day, but also, if I understand correctly, you have dogs that are DIRECTLY related to each other (father/son/sister-daughter). This is a potential disaster. You are being very irresponsible and should fix ALL your dogs as soon as possible. Interbreeding is a horrible idea.

So yes, at the risk of sounding repetitive - PLEASE SPAY/NEUTER ALL YOUR DOGS and stop adding to the problem. Once they are fixed, then you may be able to keep them.

If you are looking for any other advice - you have come to the wrong forum.

My .

Last edited by JennieV; April 29th, 2009 at 09:11 PM.
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Old April 29th, 2009, 09:05 PM
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**Bows and shakes head in utter disapointment **

Wow.. just, wow..

I Completely agree with jenniev on this one..

I honestly dont know what to say to this
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Old April 29th, 2009, 09:15 PM
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Lets not jump to conclusions here. Obviously this person is responsible enough to take in the dogs she previously bred (which may or may not have been intentional, the poster did not specify). That is more then alot of people would do and shows the OP does care about the pups wellbeing.

I agree with the others in regards to spay and nuetering, this would be a good first step and should be mandatory before you rehome these dogs. If you are able to, please find a trainer to come to your home and help introduce the dogs. I would suggest ALL future interactions between these 3 dogs be done on nuetral territory (somewhere that belongs to neither dog, a park they normally do not frequent, or some other area that has not been claimed by the dogs). Seeing as how this is an emergancy situation (you are obligated to take in the dogs you produced, ethically, that is..) you may have to just use prevention until you are able to find a temporary (maybe a family member or friend will watch one of the dogs..) or permanent home. This means keeping the dogs seperated at all times. It might be tricky, but unfortunately you may not have much of a choice.

Good luck
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Old April 29th, 2009, 09:27 PM
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Ummm..Blackdog.....Nobody is jumping to conclusions. If you look at the OP's profile, you will see a couple of pictures. Jazzmin needed not to be bred..There are hundreds like her dying every day.

Tubby and Bella are from two separate litters, which leads me to believe this was no accident. The litters are a few months apart, which again, leads me to believe the dog was not bred carefully. Now, the OP also didn't really clarify why these pups are coming back, one was supposedly mistreated, the other one - who knows...It is very possible these pups have certain conditions and the owners just don't want them any more. And that is EXACTLY why I am so angry with people who breed mutts.

Anyway, I don't want to get into any kind of arguments, that is not my intent. My intent is to promote spaying and neutering and make people aware that random breeding is not okay. Just because your doggie is uber-cute or smart or whatever, doesn't make it okay to populate Earth with its puppies.

Last edited by JennieV; April 29th, 2009 at 09:45 PM.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
**Bows and shakes head in utter disapointment **

Wow.. just, wow..

I Completely agree with jenniev on this one..

I honestly dont know what to say to this
Just curious which part it is that you disagree with. Two intact males and an intact female being kept together, breeding mixed breeds, spaying/neutering, inbreeding? Not quite sure what jennie said that you disagree with.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 09:33 AM
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I agree with you JennieV, 100% about breeding mutts. To be honest, my post was not directed at you. I found babymommas post to be somewhat rude, hence why I said 'lets not jump to conclusions'(I should have worded that in a different way), before trying to answer the original posters question.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 11:16 AM
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I think Babymomma what shaking her head is disgust about the OP intentionally breeding these dogs? And saying she agrees with Jennie? just a thought..

I also agree.. wow 2 litters already? That is MORE than enough.. The only think I am happy about is that she is willing to take back these dogs, hope it is done right..

To the OP, please re consider your breeding ideas.. If the situation about dogs being killed and needing homes is something you don't know much about, there are many people on here that can explain to you why this is a horrible idea. Please fix your dogs and let them just be your friends, that is what they want, they will be so thankful for it.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 11:58 AM
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You're probably right luvmylab.
At the time of my post I was not aware whether this was from an intentional breeding or not. Accidents do happen........ but usually people learn from that experience and it never happens again.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslan View Post
Just curious which part it is that you disagree with. Two intact males and an intact female being kept together, breeding mixed breeds, spaying/neutering, inbreeding? Not quite sure what jennie said that you disagree with.
I think she actually agreed with me this time. LOL

To the OP: your dogs will not stop fighting over the female as long as there are hormones involved. Its nature, in all its glory. If you do find Tubby a new home, I hope it will not be so that you can breed Bella.

I really hope you will stick around long enough to actually understand why most of us are against random and irresponsible breeding.
What's done is done, but you have the control of these dogs' future. Please be aware of the fact that there are WAY too many dogs and cats dying every day, due to lack of space at the shelters and rescues.

Every newborn puppy is one less home for those dogs. And while this may seem like a profitable thing to do - I personally really think it's a low and sad way to get paid. I consider this bloody money, for somewhere another dog was put down or gassed.

:sad:
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Old April 30th, 2009, 03:46 PM
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OMG BM i'm soooo sorry, my bad, this is why i shouldn't read so early in the morning. *******hangs head in shame*****:sad:
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Old April 30th, 2009, 03:54 PM
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Bottom line in all of this is..... until all three of the dogs are fixed so there are no more inbred pups then they should not be around each other. If they are all fixed then with proper introductions I don't see a problem with getting along with each other.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 08:08 PM
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So you will be getting a female pup, from your dogs other litter, not the litter tubby was from. Tubby will be fixed, and the problem is he is fighting with the father.. so let me read into this.. The father dog is not fixed, and not going to be, Let me assume jazzmine had another mate for this female's litter... Are you intending to breed this female to the father?

Sounds like it because you say she is in heat and cannot come and play until tubby is fixed, you don't say anything about her not coming over when in heat around the intact father dog. Obviously this is very wrong if the father dog is her father. How many litters have you had? This sounds like on purpose. Please reconsider breeding this female, please ask questions about why people feel this way, there are so many that are willing and so many with so much knowladge.

People might sound a bit pissy when it comes to this, you need to understand how many people here are the people that are left picking up the pieces from people that breed willy nilly for selfish reasons, I myself have fostered dogs, not at the moment I have had my heart broken so many times. And now that I am only fostering cats my heart absolutly breaks to see the pups in rescue, and to read the stats on what has been put down.

If you love puppies, try volunteering at a shelter near you, you can have all the kisses and tail wags you can handle without causing any more pups in this world, leading to others that are innocent being killed, there you will learn what it is like to look into the eyes of a sweet dog that you can do nothing to save, then you will understand why homes do not need to be taken by mutts bred on purpose to fill someone;s selfish needs, those homes need to be for the dogs that have numbered days left on this earth, dogs that have been bred by people like yourself and setenced to death for no other reason than there are already more dogs than there are good homes.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 04:28 AM
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Well I just noticed the post on this link....

charlie is Fixed and soon Tubby will be also
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Deanta R.I.P April 2000 - July 10, 2002
Jazzmin R.I.P May 13, 2002 - March 27, 2009
Charlie D.O.B Aug 2007
Jazz and Charlie Pups
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Bella September 3, 2008
Catz
fritz feb 1999
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Teddy 2007
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Old May 14th, 2009, 05:43 AM
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finallyamommy finallyamommy is offline
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Reply to make things a little clearer

JUSt to clarify. I didn't see this post..
Charlie (The Father) is Fixed. He was fixed in Jan 2009. Before my female dog was put down. in March

Tubby and Bella have the same mother and father.
The first litter was an accident!!!! I tried to breed Jasmin before to stupidly have another pet. I found that she couldn't get pregnant as told by VET.

We rescued Charlie from a kijiji ad. Jaz and Charlie got along right away. Jazz had a few heats and nothing had happened. So we assumed that the Vet was correct. We were planning on fixing Charlie as he was very hyper.

Then in Christmas of 07" Jazz started to look pregnant. I took her to the Vet ( As I'm a responsible pet owner. Then we found out that she was going to have pups soon.

Tubby's litter was born in Feb 08. She had 12 pups one died. I found homes for EVERY pup. I have only lost contact with only three puppies to date.

Then When Jazz came into her next heat. It was too late to fix her. The Vet Stated that she was in GREAT health and safe to have another litter.
Six out of the eight families that got a pup from me wanted a second one. As they were so happy with their addition to there family. I know now that I have done things wrong. And it breaks my heart to think that I may have an a longer time with Jazz....... Please don't get me wrong here. I love my pets and I would do anything for them. I wish money grow on trees and no surprise would happen. As something always comes up.

I paid for all shots, Deworming, heart worm. Everything that was needed the pups got. I had all pups until they were NINE weeks old.

Now four families got another dog and some were my family members. Sadly Tubby was one that didn't get a great home. He just didn't have time for him and didn't really know what he was getting himself into when he got Tubby.

After Jazz was put to sleep. I know that Tubby needed to get out and enjoy life. I know that I was able to take him. As this point I didn't know about Bella. Charlie was already fixed. Charlie took Jazz's death really hard. as so did I. I had never stop thinking about her.

Now that my friend couldn't keep Bella. and she looked so much like Jazz. I can't see her go to the pound. I knew that she wanted to give her back to me. I don't want to see Bella get pregnant. I will not let it happen. Tubby is in the back of my house and bella is with Charlie. Charlie still wants to breed with her. I don't know if he think that it is Jazz. But she doesn't let him anyway. I will get Tubby fixed right away. As soon as I have the money. Now that they want a CC. I don't know what I will do.

My main question was that if this fighting would even stop. Or if it is going to be a on going problem. Thats ALL.

As That is my main issue. My hubby doesn't want me to keep them all= But I don't care. I know that as long as they are happy and not fighting then all should be good.

I just wanted to see if there was anything that I can do. I didn't want a big discussion about breeding dogs. I know that it isn't the Best for them. I have recsue all my animals. Most of the pups from my litters are fixed already.


I wish that I could reach in my back pocket and pull out the money to help and take in every animal. But I do the best I can.

So again my main question is. It is possible to have two male and a female live happy together. Well dominance still be an issue. I know that all should be fixed but money wise that may not be an option for a while. As Im the only one working.
Please help me out.
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Deanta R.I.P April 2000 - July 10, 2002
Jazzmin R.I.P May 13, 2002 - March 27, 2009
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Bella September 3, 2008
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Chub chub June 2004
Teddy 2007
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Old May 14th, 2009, 05:56 AM
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Health of pups

also Just to add the pups are coming back as I fell it is right for me to have them or find a better home for them. Also as I want to keep in contact with all the owners. I have a Facebook account for my litters and we go to the dog park for family reunions. I

neither one is sick or have any problems. All my pups are really healthy with no health problems at all.

I took Tubby back as I felt that he was being mistreated. There is not many ppl that would even think of doing that. I can't get over all the ppl on Kijiji. Selling pups or animals. It broke my heart to let the pups go. I cried when each one left. I see most of them and get updates on almost all of them.

Now that Jazz is gone. I feel more responsible for her pups as i don't want any of them mistreated. I inform all the owner before the got the dog that I wanted to stay in contact with them and they needed to be added to my facebook account.

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Deanta R.I.P April 2000 - July 10, 2002
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Charlie D.O.B Aug 2007
Jazz and Charlie Pups
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Bella September 3, 2008
Catz
fritz feb 1999
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Teddy 2007
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Old May 14th, 2009, 09:42 AM
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I would spay Bella before neutering Tubby. If it's her scent, or her going into heat that's attracting their attention, even having them separated in the house could be tricky, because even though they're separate, he can still smell her. If you want to keep all three dogs, of course they'll all have to be spayed or neutered eventually, but if you had to pick one or the other to be next, spay the female. I do applaud you for taking them back in when the owners couldn't handle it. However, I would try to find a home for Tubby if him and Charlie continue to fight. Otherwise, be prepared to do a LOT of training with them, together and separately. How much exercise do they each get every day? And not just walking, how about off leash time? You said that you do get together for family reunions with the other dogs, are there a lot of other times that they get that kind of stimulation and socialization? Because it is important that they socialize with other dogs that aren't their housemates. It's also important to do this separately with each dog as well.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 10:30 AM
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If you want to keep all three dogs, of course they'll all have to be spayed or neutered eventually, but if you had to pick one or the other to be next, spay the female.
My thoughts exactly. We have a neutered male but, if he comes across a female in heat, he behaves just as if he wasn't neutered which will create tension if another male is around (neutered or not). Please have Bella spayed first, then Tubby asap.

Yes, it may be possible to keep them all but it will take time to work through it. Have you done any training with them? What breed(s) are they?

ETA: Have you looked into any low-cost spay/neuter clinics in your area? Perhaps the local shelter/SPCA offers a program?
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Old May 14th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Well I have a very big fenced in back yard. Also they each get turns going to pick up my daughter.


They all act very well when they are apart. Most of the issues start when another male dog comes around.

They all will get fixed. I have received that information about the clinic in Toronto. With the amount that I was willing to spend just on Tubby. I will be able to get Bella, Tubby and my cat fixed all at the same time. As well as getting there shot up to date. As the owner didn't get there done...

Well thanks for your reply.....

they are doing very well to day. I put a pull up and a pair of Shorts on bella while they are out together..

They are both taken turn spending time in the back of my house. They don't mind as long as two are together. They play....
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Deanta R.I.P April 2000 - July 10, 2002
Jazzmin R.I.P May 13, 2002 - March 27, 2009
Charlie D.O.B Aug 2007
Jazz and Charlie Pups
Tubby Feb 21, 2008
Bella September 3, 2008
Catz
fritz feb 1999
Chub chub June 2004
Teddy 2007
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Old May 14th, 2009, 11:02 AM
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Please don't take offense, but running around in the backyard is not enough exercise. They need more stimulation and exercise, otherwise they get bored, and that could also possibly contribute to the tension between the two males. They are understimulated, so they release that tension by fighting. What kind of games do you play with them, and what kind of training do you do? All are good mental stimulation. Typically dogs need three types of stimulation - physical, mental, and social. Physical meaning running and playing, mental meaning playing, training, and social meaning playing with other dogs and meeting lots of different kinds of people. If those needs aren't met, they can react in different ways, including lashing out. I just want you to be prepared for after your pets are fixed, as it's not always the be all end all of solutions. They may still fight after she is spayed if they don't have an outlet for their energy.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 08:30 PM
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Ok, I always try to give the benefit of the doubt to the person, but there are things in your answer that just make me want to scream. We all have trouble in our lives, difficulties, challenges, but you came here, asking for our opinions...You were given opinions. After reading your reply, I wish I didn't, because now I am going to sound like the villain again.

Well, are you ready? Like I previously mentioned, I am not the one to beat around the bush, so this is not going to be pretty...



Quote:
Originally Posted by finallyamommy View Post
JUSt to clarify. I didn't see this post..
Charlie (The Father) is Fixed. He was fixed in Jan 2009. Before my female dog was put down. in March

Tubby and Bella have the same mother and father. OY...I smell trouble..
The first litter was an accident!!!! I tried to breed Jasmin before to stupidly have another pet. I found that she couldn't get pregnant as told by VET.

We rescued Charlie from a kijiji ad. Did you pay for him? because as far as I know, Kijiji is not a reputable rescue or shelter...but ok..never mind..Moving on.. Jaz and Charlie got along right away. Jazz had a few heats and nothing had happened. So we assumed that the Vet was correct. We were planning on fixing Charlie as he was very hyper.

Then in Christmas of 07" Jazz started to look pregnant. I took her to the Vet ( As I'm a responsible pet owner. Then we found out that she was going to have pups soon. Why didn't you fix Charlie right then??

Tubby's litter was born in Feb 08. She had 12 pups one died. I found homes for EVERY pup. I have only lost contact with only three puppies to date.

Then When Jazz came into her next heat. It was too late to fix her. my question here is why wasn't she separated from Charlie, even if it was too late, had you not wanted it to happen - it wouldn't have. And why Charlie was STILL not fixed The Vet Stated that she was in GREAT health and safe to have another litter.
Six out of the eight families that got a pup from me wanted a second one. As they were so happy with their addition to there family. I know now that I have done things wrong. And it breaks my heart to think that I may have an a longer time with Jazz....... Please don't get me wrong here. I love my pets and I would do anything for them. I wish money grow on trees and no surprise would happen. As something always comes up. And something always will come up! Such is life. You have to make it happen, and there are ways, not every vet wants money up front and not every vet is the same price either...There are spay/neuter clinics ETC

I paid for all shots, Deworming, heart worm. Everything that was needed the pups got. I had all pups until they were NINE weeks old. And THAT was cheaper to do than one operation?? Also, I don't think that NINE weeks is really enough time for puppies to be with their mother and siblings...

Now four families got another dog and some were my family members. Sadly Tubby was one that didn't get a great home. He just didn't have time for him and didn't really know what he was getting himself into when he got Tubby. That, right there does not make a good impression on me. You let a puppy go to a person that did not know what he was getting himself into? not exactly a "responsible" breeder thing to do..

After Jazz was put to sleep. Why was she put to sleep? I know that Tubby needed to get out and enjoy life. I know that I was able to take him. As this point I didn't know about Bella. Charlie was already fixed. Charlie took Jazz's death really hard. as so did I. I had never stop thinking about her.

Now that my friend couldn't keep Bella. and she looked so much like Jazz. I can't see her go to the pound. I knew that she wanted to give her back to me. I don't want to see Bella get pregnant. I will not let it happen. but you let Jazz get pregnant the second time.. Tubby is in the back of my house and bella is with Charlie. Charlie still wants to breed with her. I don't know if he think that it is Jazz. No, its because she is in heat..

But she doesn't let him anyway. I will get Tubby fixed right away. As soon as I have the money. Now that they want a CC. I don't know what I will do. So..."right away" turns into "as soon as.." to "I don't know what..."? To me, it sounds like these dogs will not be fixed

My main question was that if this fighting would even stop. Or if it is going to be a on going problem. Thats ALL. The fighting is about a female in heat and two males around her, fixed or not, they WILL fight, because she SMELLS to them!! They are animals, they don't have the concept of interbreeding or such, they will breed with parents and siblings. It is up to the humans to control that and not let that happen. If you cannot understand that - the fighting will NOT stop. No amount of training or control would prevent a free-running male dog mating with a free-running female dog.

As That is my main issue. My hubby doesn't want me to keep them all= But I don't care. I know that as long as they are happy and not fighting then all should be good. And what if your husband still doesn't want to keep them? from what i can see, the issue here is poor Tubby, as you have NOT ONCE mentioned that you will fix Bella, which in turn leads me to think that you WILL breed her.

I just wanted to see if there was anything that I can do. nope, you wanted a quick fix, to stop the annoyance of two dogs fighting I didn't want a big discussion about breeding dogs. I know that it isn't the Best for them. I have recsue all my animals. IF you did "rescue" any dogs (which i doubt) - you wouldn't breed them, because you would understand that there are already too many homeless ones. Buying a dog on Kijiji does not constitute rescue.Most of the pups from my litters are fixed already. yea...especially Tubby and Bella


I wish that I could reach in my back pocket and pull out the money to help and take in every animal. But I do the best I can. Yep, you sure do the best you can!...by adding more animals...Its not just about the money, its about a conscious decision to breed or not to breed.

So again my main question is. It is possible to have two male and a female live happy together. Yes, if they are ALL FIXED! Well dominance still be an issue. I know that all should be fixed but money wise that may not be an option for a while. As Im the only one working.
Please help me out.
As you may have noticed, there are things that just don't make sense to me and it sounds like you are making every excuse in the book.

In which case all I can say is find a home for Tubby. And this time, make sure they know what they are getting themselves into. Sorry, but somehow, I don't feel sympathy for you, just :sad: for the dogs.
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  #24  
Old May 14th, 2009, 08:58 PM
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Mat&Murph Mat&Murph is offline
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Get your female fixed ASAP!!! As long as she is not, there will be fighting. Then work on getting your boys fixed. Intact males will still fight for territory and ranking within the family. So they all need to be fixed. Plus it sounds like they all need some excerise, That will ease tensions as well
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  #25  
Old May 14th, 2009, 09:41 PM
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lUvMyLaB<3 lUvMyLaB<3 is offline
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Sorry, I REALLY agree with Jenny... You said you were ready to take him as your dog.. Uhm no you are not, if you cannot afford to have him fixed you are not ready to be a dog owner. This is the most minor part of having a dog, and you have three. Shots and sterilization surgery is the most minor thing. Can you afford shots? Vet bills when they get sick? What if one breaks a leg? What if they do get into a bad fight and they are all beaten up and need surgery? You have a lot of dogs, that you have not cared for properly in the past, I am not convinced you should be keeping all these dogs, you really need to change your life so you can meet all their needs if this is something you really want to do.
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  #26  
Old May 14th, 2009, 10:01 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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I really have to say that I not only agree with what JennieV had to say, but she said it alot politer than what i'm thinking. I think you should rehome both of the new additions, keep your neutered male, and never, ever take in a pet that isn't already fixed again. As already mentioned, spay/neuter is one of the cheaper medical expenses you are going to run into. And as also stated, You didn't rescue, you purchased a dog from another byb and then bred it. YAY that you found homes for the pups, but that many pups were euthenized in a shelter somewhere because your unneccessary breeding took their possible homes.
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  #27  
Old May 14th, 2009, 10:01 PM
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Frenchy Frenchy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finallyamommy View Post
they are doing very well to day. I put a pull up and a pair of Shorts on bella while they are out together..
And you think your female can't get preggo/that the males can't hump her but putting shorts on her ? OMG !!! KEEP THEM SEPARATED PLEASE !!!

Ditto to everything Jennie posted , as always , she always says what's on my mind. but nicer.
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  #28  
Old May 14th, 2009, 10:11 PM
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clm clm is offline
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This OP drives me up the wall. Yet another irresponsible owner.

Cindy
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  #29  
Old May 18th, 2009, 11:29 AM
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mafiaprincess mafiaprincess is offline
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Since your bitch was put down due to lymphoma.. did you have a health guarantee on all the puppies you bred? What if they get sick. You bred them. It is your responsibility. Glad you are getting some of them fixed now, but it's closing the barn door after the horses have gotten out. Prevent future litters, but you already have created a lot of puppies of questionable health.
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  #30  
Old May 18th, 2009, 11:51 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Please go to a rescue group and hand over the remaining pups so that they can find suitable homes for them.

If one truly loves their animals, then sterilizing them and protecting them against future babies and disease is the responsible thing to do. If you cannot afford it - then please contact a rescue to give up your dogs. Again -they will find homes for them and ensure that they are sterilized to stop this insane cycle.

For every puppy born - others that deserve to live will and does die. Think about that please.
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