Fatal dog attack South Shore Montreal

[Frenchy]

I heard it on the news yesterday , not long after it happened. I was surprise but glad this morning , when they said the mom and grand mother were going to be charge. But this is just horrible

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...422/story.html

[cell]

More information in now, it's all over the news so anyone can read it. Putting the dog down really doesn't solve anything considering this is a situation that the dogs and the baby should have never been put it.
The baby was on the second floor of the house, alone, in a car seat with the dogs who didn't even belong to the family.... Not too much more really needs to be said about that.

[Frenchy]

They're not putting down the dogs yet. They want to evaluate them and the fact that they don't know which of the 2 dogs "did it" (the dogs owner thinks maybe the dogs got into a fight and I guess , redirected at the poor baby) I was surprise (and glad) to see on the news , how they showed the dogs and said that these were NOT aggressive dogs (stated by animal control , neighbors etc...). They are mostly putting the blame on the mother and grand mother , not so much the dogs.

[Melinda]

in our paper it only said "the breed of dog was not being disclosed" in other words, it was not a pitbull................
regardless of what breed, no dog should be left alone near a baby, r.i.p. sweet soul, how sad for the parents and family.

[Chris21711]

On the news in TO they showed the dogs being led away by either animal control and/or police. They were two Huskys. The news said they were going to run tests to ascertain which dog was the culprit.

[Frenchy]

One female husky , one male husky. I can't wait to hear if they were spayed/neutered. Probably not. All the people involved looks a lot ...... excuse my french but , white trash. a 17 yr old mom , living with a slightly older girl (she's about 20) who herself lives with an older boyfriend and his 3 kids ....

The animal control guy was questioned on the news when he was putting the dogs into his truck , he showed the dogs and said : "now do these dogs look aggressive to you ? No they're not."

They are putting the biggest part of the blame on the mom and grand mom , not so much the dogs. Which surprises me because it's a first here ... I am glad that they are not so quick to judge the dogs.

Maybe one of the dogs was "guarding" the baby , who was on the floor , and the other dog approached ... there was a fight and the baby got some of it.

Sick to my stomach to think about that poor baby.

[mastifflover]

Very sad but come on who leaves a baby unattended especially with 2 dogs and not your own. I hope the dogs do not pay for the ignorance of the caretakers. I agree they sound like TPR

[Love4himies]

Very, very sad . I hope the dogs don't have to pay for the human mistakes

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by mastifflover

Very sad but come on who leaves a baby unattended especially with 2 dogs and not your own. I hope the dogs do not pay for the ignorance of the caretakers. I agree they sound like TPR

I disagree. Firstly, regardless of the circumstances a life is taken. If there is puncture wounds on this child then I will stand my ground and say that whatever dog it is should be put down immediately.

Secondly, dogs by nature are reactive to sound. The baby crying may sound like an injured animal which in some dogs that sound is associated with prey.

Thirdly, looking back at myself as a child of 17 years, would I have had all the knowledge about dog behaviour and would I be equipped to understand prey drive, body language, postering of an animal AND how to difuse it? No way!

No - the child should not have been alone with the dogs but based on what was reported there is no clear understanding of the situation.

A child is dead. A child has been arrested. A dog(s) will be destroyed. A very tragic event.

RIP to the little angel.

[ancientgirl]

A situation that could have very easily been prevented.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

No - the child should not have been alone with the dogs but based on what was reported there is no clear understanding of the situation.

BM , the mom and grand mom left the baby ON THE FLOOR with the dogs inside , to go outside smoke a cigarette ....

A child is dead. A child has been arrested. A dog(s) will be destroyed. A very tragic event.

I don't call a 17 yr old girl "a child" , if she's old enough to have sex , get pregnant and have the baby , she's old enough to know you don't leave a 20 day old baby on the floor with 2 dogs , and then leave to go outside have a smoke.

and it has been confirmed , both dogs were intact. Also , the dogs were free to roam when left outside , no leash , no fence , just free to roam.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I don't call a 17 yr old girl "a child" , if she's old enough to have sex , get pregnant and have the baby , she's old enough to know you don't leave a 20 day old baby on the floor with 2 dogs , and then leave to go outside have a smoke.

and it has been confirmed , both dogs were intact. Also , the dogs were free to roam when left outside , no leash , no fence , just free to roam.

Frenchy - this is a child regardless of being able to reproduce. She has a very poor role model obviously.

Again - who at age 17 was able to read dog body language or understand fully about animal behaviour? There are adults that still do not sterilize their pets, leave them to roam and do outrageous ignorant things. At 17, this young girl is going to have to live with this incident.

Should the dog in question be euthanized...YES! I am a huge animal lover and animal advocate, but some things must be kept in perspective.

[Frenchy]

I must add .... the baby died from the injuries ... doesn't mean that the dog who "attacked" , meant to kill , but 20 days old babies are so tiny , of course it wouldn't take much


I agree that if the dog was aggressive and intent to kill , yes , should be put down. But this doesn't sound like it's the case.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Again - who at age 17 was able to read dog language or understand fully about animal behaviour?

She didn't have to know how to read dog language , just to know that you don't leave a baby on the floor ! And yes , she had a poor role model.

At 17 , I was working full time , helping my mom to pay the rent , so really , I never considered myself still a child at 17 !!

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

I must add .... the baby died from the injuries ... doesn't mean that the dog who "attacked" , meant to kill , but 20 days old babies are so tiny , of course it wouldn't take much


I agree that if the dog was aggressive and intent to kill , yes , should be put down. But this doesn't sound like it's the case.

Ok let me ask you this then ...if it were one of your dogs, would you ever feel forgiving towards him/her? Or if you had the opportunity to take this dog in as yours, would you be able to live with the fact that this dog killed a human being?

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

She didn't have to know how to read dog language , just to know that you don't leave a baby on the floor ! And yes , she had a poor role model.

At 17 , I was working full time , helping my mom to pay the rent , so really , I never considered myself still a child at 17 !!

Oh goody - we disagree with something. This sounds like a good conversation when I eventually come over to your place!

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Ok let me ask you this then ...if it were one of your dogs, would you ever feel forgiving towards him/her? Or if you had the opportunity to take this dog in as yours, would you be able to live with the fact that this dog killed a human being?

Probably yes , let's say this dog did the same to a 7 yr old kid. Same injuries , bigger kid , probably wouldn't have died from this. But this happened to a tiny baby to me , doesn't mean the dog wanted to kill. I strongly think the dog didn't even know he/she was biting the baby , I think something happened between the 2 dogs , and unfortunately , the baby was on the floor , in the middle of the fight. That's my opinion , for now of course. Maybe they will prove me wrong.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

Probably yes , let's say this dog did the same to a 7 yr old kid. Same injuries , bigger kid , probably wouldn't have died from this. But this happened to a tiny baby to me , doesn't mean the dog wanted to kill. I strongly think the dog didn't even know he/she was biting the baby , I think something happened between the 2 dogs , and unfortunately , the baby was on the floor , in the middle of the fight. That's my opinion , for now of course. Maybe they will prove me wrong.

Frenchy a baby's cry sounds very much like a wounded and dying animal. If these dogs have a prey drive then the attack actually would be deliberate. Of course I am speculating...but it makes sense.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Oh goody - we disagree with something. This sounds like a good conversation when I eventually come over to your place!

for that you will need to come over

but really .... I'm very anal about dogs and kids. Some may think I'm extreme but , I always refused my friends to come over with their toddlers. Maybe if I only had one dog but with 4 , I always thought , better be safe than sorry. And that even when I had total friendly goldens.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Frenchy a baby's cry sounds very much like a wounded and dying animal. If these dogs have a prey drive then the attack actually would be deliberate. Of course I am speculating...but it makes sense.

If someone can prove to me that the dog attacked the baby , then yes , I would agree to have it put down , but would want the mom and grand mom to still be charged.

But really , I think this wasn't the case , I think something happened between the dogs , baby was in the way ...

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

for that you will need to come over

but really .... I'm very anal about dogs and kids. Some maybe think I'm extreme but , I always refused my friends to come over with their toddlers. Maybe if I only had one dog but with 4 , I always thought , better be safe than sorry. And that even when I had total friendly goldens.

That is you Frenchy. Most people here on pets are animal savvy. As you have been in rescue for some years, you can see the ignorance of adults let alone a 17 year old kid. We here are not the norm. We are the exception.

[Frenchy]

I just noticed that I keep saying "but really" ...

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

If someone can prove to me that the dog attacked the baby , then yes , I would agree to have it put down , but would want the mom and grand mom to still be charged.

But really , I think this wasn't the case , I think something happened between the dogs , baby was in the way ...

If there are puncture marks on that child Frenchy, that dog needs and should be euthanized.

My apologies for the insenstivity on my part.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

My apologies for the insenstivity on my part.

No need to apologize BM , you're in tittle to your opinion and I'm sure others here feel the same way

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

No need to apologize BM , you're in tittle to your opinion and I'm sure others here feel the same way

I think I may be alone in my opinion Frenchy...which I am ok with.

You are a good friend, and it is great that we can disagree and move on.

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Frenchy a baby's cry sounds very much like a wounded and dying animal. If these dogs have a prey drive then the attack actually would be deliberate. Of course I am speculating...but it makes sense.

Playing the devil's advocate here... does that mean all dogs with high prey drive should be euthanised? Because they are all be capable of killing, no? One can never say with 100% accuracy that their dog won't bite/kill if the circumstances are right.

This is so tragic . RIP Baby Girl .

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Playing the devil's advocate here... does that mean all dogs with high prey drive should be euthanised? Because they are all be capable of killing, no? One can never say with 100% accuracy that their dog won't bite/kill if the circumstances are right.

This is so tragic . RIP Baby Girl .

Come on LP. I did not say all dogs with prey drive should be killed. I am saying any dog that attacks and/or kills a child should be euthanized. I am being brutally blunt but this story absolutely enraged me on several levels.

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by BenMax

Come on LP. I did not say all dogs with prey drive should be killed. I am saying any dog that attacks and/or kills a child should be euthanized. I am being brutally blunt but this story absolutely enraged me on several levels.

I know you didn't say that . Just wondering what the difference is. One who would bite/kill versus one who has.

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

I know you didn't say that . Just wondering what the difference is. One who would bite/kill versus one who has.

Big difference. But again, you know that a dog with a bite history is very difficult to network for in rescue. I have done it for dogs of small breed, but I have difficulty with dogs of larger breed...and that is just for a bite let alone a death.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by BenMax

I think I may be alone in my opinion Frenchy...which I am ok with.

You are a good friend, and it is great that we can disagree and move on.

I started to write a long post earlier but got interrupted because of 2 stray dogs at my fence

I must confess .... I totally base my opinion on the type of people that are involved in this story. I heard about them , saw them on the news , and came to the conclusion that , these people , again IMO , are white trash / on welfare . That is why I blame THEM and not so much the dogs.

I don't know if this is called racist on my part ... you can flame me all you want , but I have strong opinion about "those people". I grew up in Verdun. Although nice neighborhood in the 70's , it quickly became welfare central in the 80's. I'm talking whole families on tiny balconies , drinking beer all day , playing loud music , screaming at neighbors ... men doing "glue" while walking on the street (breathing into bags filled with glue to get a buzz) , young girls getting prego fresh out of high school so they could get welfare instead of going to work , and then missing 40% on my pay checks to pay for their way of living ... I couldn't wait to get the heck out of that place. So yes , I can smell a white trash from miles away , and I base my opinion upon that. that's why this story is pissing me off so much.