Raw food for pets - BARF diet

[MyBirdIsEvil]

He said that he used to give his dog leftover scraps from his job and his dog got sick from it and now has to go to the vet every 3 months, which scares the living crap out of me.

How old were the scraps he gave his dog? What kind of meat were they? What kind of symptoms did his dog have and were they PROVEN to have made his dog sick? Was it a case of him taking his dog to his vet and the vet just decided without any tests that it was the meat?
Why is he taking his dog to the vet every 3 months, what symptoms does his dog still have that require vet visits, does the dog still require treatment or is it just a check up?

These are the types of questions you need to ask people when they say that (or just ignore them, people tend to be asses sometimes). If the person can't answer the questions or just says something like "Well, the vet said to stop giving raw meat! I can't remember why, but that's what the vet said"
Someone who can't give you an educated answer is just relaying hearsay or not giving you the whole story, those type of people aren't worth listening to.

I just started feeding one of my dogs raw, and he's fine. There are plenty of people online (this message board and others) that feed raw without any ill effects. There are some dogs that just can't handle raw, but there are PLENTY of dogs that do fine on it.

Personally I haven't encountered any dogs that have required a vet visit from eating raw meat (though I've seen a couple online that have). I just gave Walnut some the other day and she threw up so I stopped giving it to her, but now she's fine, no vet visit required. She's also gotten sick from certain storebought treats, some dogs are sensitive to certain things. My other dog however has been eating raw for 5 or 6 days now and he's doing GREAT, much better than on kibble.
Just about everyone around here who hunts gives their dogs raw meat and bones as a treat with no ill effect.

I've seen dogs get sick from eating RANCID meat and that's a whole different story. Most likely the man you talked to gave his dog rotten or contaminated meat, and that's the problem. Any meat that's been frozen for human consumption or scraps that the butcher just cut off THAT day should be fine for dogs.
---
Believe it or not there are also MANY people who will say you're crazy for giving high end holistic food ("they're dogs, cheap food is fine!"), or that Science Diet or some such is better ("My vet says hollistic foods aren't complete or proven."), which is total BS.
Most people get their opinions of food either from the vet or the pet food companies, so you kind of have to sift through those kind of views to find unbias or educated opinions.
I've gotten tons of flack from people for not giving cheap food and buying Timberwolf Organics at $50/bag. Whatever, they're my dogs and I want the best for them. I've done the research and I'm not picking my food based on price, a TV commercial or what the vet is peddling, so they can say what they want as long as my dogs are healthy.

[technodoll]

wow MBIE!!

[LynLyn]

Originally Posted by MyBirdIsEvil

"Well, the vet said to stop giving raw meat! I can't remember why, but that's what the vet said"

That about sums it up, after the bitchfest from the butcher and surrounding patrons I just wanted to pay for my meat and leave. I'm the type of person that would normally hang around and stand up for myself, except that the conversation was in vietnamese, and unfortunately vietnamese is not my strongpoint.

[barkley21]

You could try saying:

"Your vet - bad"
"Raw meat - good"

[schoolmommy3]

Shilo was started on a raw diet 4 days ago. This morning he has a bloody poo. It is bloody as he is pushing I think. Any thoughts?

Blessings,
Tracey

[Scott_B]

ok, a bit of history. What have you been feeding for the last 4 days? What kinda pup are we talking about here?

[technodoll]

yes... how old is your dog, and what exactly has he eaten the past few days? anything besides raw (treats, sticks, cooked bones, etc)? how is his health otherwise? how is his poop? the more info you can give, the more we can help these things can and do happen, bright red blood is a sign of colon irritation of some sort and would require a day's fasting (if your dog is old enough) to give it a break and some time to recuperate. this also happens with kibble or eating all kinds of things, so don't panic

[Scott_B]

Have you fed any liver? Feeding too much liver too soon can create dark redish stool that may apear to be bloody.

[schoolmommy3]

Shilo is a 16 week old miniature daschund cross. He has been VERY healthy so far. The poo is bright red, and is drops after some diarreah. It is mixed with mucous, and some runny stool.

He did have some liver last night, but this is blood. He has been eating chicken with crushed bone. Interestingly, he did pass a piece of plastic with
sharp edges, about the size of 1cm square. He has still had some bloody mucous since passing this. Otherwise he is happy, playing and being the adorable little brat that he is.

I hope this helps!

Blessings,
Tracey

[technodoll]

The poo is bright red, and is drops after some diarreah. It is mixed with mucous, and some runny stool. Interestingly, he did pass a piece of plastic with sharp edges, about the size of 1cm square. He has still had some bloody mucous since passing this. Otherwise he is happy, playing and being the adorable little brat that he is.

ah! there you go! the plastic no doubt scratched his colon and that is where the blood comes from. Mucous is produced in an attempt to sooth the colon and allow the body to repair itself. since it's not a good idea to fast a puppy, i would feed only soft meat meals for a day and make sure there is no chewing on objects which he could ingest to aggravate the scratches.

what else is on the menu, are you using any supplements?

[schoolmommy3]

I think this did it too. This morning he had a couple of drops of blood to start off, then a nicely formed stool. He is still active and playful. I hope it is over soon.

Blessings,
Tracey

[technodoll]

it will clear up! and if it doesn't, you will need to bring him to the vet just to be safe. good luck!

[schoolmommy3]

He is still mucousy with a couple of drops of blood. The vet here HATES raw feeding, and treats you like a child if you do feed it. How do you deal with this?

Blessings,
Tracey

[technodoll]

Tracey, you just tell him what happened (piece of plastic scratched the colon) and don't mention raw feeding You could always just call and ask for advice, if you should bring your dog in at all, how long you should wait, etc.

have you tried giving probiotics to replenish the good bacteria in the GI tract? mucous can unbalance things... also have you been feeding meat-only meals to give his body a break? (no bone means softer stools). poor puppy! they do get into things!

[Scott_B]

Id give it a few days.

As for the vet, if you really dont care for them, switch. Its simple. If you cant switch for whatever reason, then just tell them that you'll agree to disagree. Maybe print off some raw material or books and give it to them. Every time i go to the vets i get a lecture when not seeing my reg vet. My reg vet doesnt feed raw, but has friends that do, and she says she doesnt know enough about it to be for or agaisnt it.

[schoolmommy3]

Thanks! I will do that. I have some probiotic capsules, so I will sprinkle a little on his food tonight. I am just waiting for another stool, and will decide if he needs to be seen then. I will not mention the raw!!

I live in northern alberta and would have to travel almost 4 hours toget to a holistic vet I know of that recommends raw, so I am stuck with a stinker!

Blessings,
Tracey

[LynLyn]

Helloooo, I'm back!!

quick question....

so since Bowser has boycotted RAW, I've been cooking for him, as this works for both of us. He likes mommy cooked food, and I don't have to feed him kibble.

question: is it alright to feed him raw some of the time? I know that feeding RAW after kibble is no good because they get digested differently.

Bowser is still not gung ho about RAW but there are particular things that he'll eat some of the times but not every time.

So basically before I cook him his dinner, I offer any of the meat to him raw and hope he eats it, some of the times he does, and other's he'll only eat it cooked

Ie: Today while i was making the Christmas Turkey, i offered him the liver (no go) and the neck (gung ho). He ate the whole neck and then at dinner time he got some cooked turkey.

Is this hurting him in any way shape of form? I can't completely feed him RAW but feel that some is better than none. BUT if some is hurting him I will have to feed none.

plz and thank you in advance!!

[Scott_B]

He should be fine. If you've been doing this for a while with no issues, I wouldn't worry. Smal tip, try searing the liver for a few seconds on each side. Sometimes thats all it takes.

[LynLyn]

Originally Posted by Scott_B

He should be fine. If you've been doing this for a while with no issues, I wouldn't worry. Smal tip, try searing the liver for a few seconds on each side. Sometimes thats all it takes.

Thanks Scott B, I'm glad i'm not damaging him in any way.

[technodoll]

you're doing good, LynLyn!

[x.l.r.8]

This thread answered all the questions I had but today I chickened out. Were on week 3 and week 1 consisted of chicken, backs, wings, thigh's, through to half a chicken. Week 2 saw some pork riblets added along with some pork hearts, week 3 saw more pork added to the chicken along with beef hearts. Now last week IGA was selling pork shoulders for 99c/lb so grabbed a few, seems one of these and some organ meat and a few chicken backs will last a week, so now we have the last section of meat from the pork shoulder and it contains the bone, i know so far he has eaten most bones but is the shoulder cosideded one of the weight bearing bones to avoid? i decided I wasn't sure so i cut it out and made up the meal with a huge turkey leg. Riley didn't seem to botherd but I would rather have not cut the bone out, a butcher I am not, so it was a messy 20 minute operation and I ruined a good knife This is the first problem I have come up against so would like to resolve it before I forget for another week. i am also having to look for another freezer as we had a friend who donated 4 chickens to the cause and a duck. Were working towards the reds meats more and more, I have a few hearts, livers and tounge's to work through and I'm waiting for another neighbour to put his 6 calfs in. I think Lamb was the cause of Rileys itching, but it was minor and he did so very badly on the wellness lamb i'm going to avoid that if nothing else effects him. SO back to the shoulder, give the big bone or not. By the way Riley is only 70lbs (although looks much bigger) and is probably something like a wolfhound/shepherd mix.
And to asnwer a question on cost. hmm! about the same all in. We were going through about a 40lb bag of canadie a month, so $55. meat at 99c lb (1.4 lb day required) 1.4 X 30 = $42, dilute that down with chicken necks and backs (40lb for $15) and organ mix from local meat packers (40lbs for $20) and you can do it easy for $40 month, seems cheaper, but you need to run a extra freezer and I put daily portions into ziplock bags, I had to buy containers to store it in the fridge. I decient knife set for cutting large portions of meat (or a hacksaw to deal with the frozen stuff). All adds up, but you may be feeling lavish and splash out on an oxtail, I'm adding omega 3 (granted it's only $15 for 150 but you have to count it) untill I find a cheap place for fish/heads. We have a fishing lake 5 minutes up the road so I may put a 'wanted' poster up there for heads left over. The rest is left over treats (cooked bits of meat for training) left over veg, pasta blended down and thrown into a bowl (blened because of the veg) and that is not added to his diet requirement, just as a way to dispose of the left overs AND make Riley a happy boy. We also brought 2 mats from wally-mart for $2.50 to eat off and a big hallway mat (on special for $9.99 at somewhere like zellers or Canadian tire) for him to lie on while eating (our kitchen is tile), so we have broken even. Oh add a few extra dollar store spray bottles, some white vinegar and a bit of bleach (dollar stores get my buck on these items) and you have clean up sorted. Like all things you are about to change, read, read and read some more, don't believe it jsut because it's on hte internet, use your judgement and make the choice that works for you, this works for us but I'm still learning as fast as I can.

[technodoll]

very interesting xlr8

i too buy those same bone-in pork roasts at IGA and i leave the bones IN. my little girl (well she's 83 lbs now but even as a puppy..) will munch and nibble and crunch through it, not all in one setting, might take a few meals but she looooves it! never any tummy problems either, she's a slow and thorough chewer. same with my big boy, it's a meal AND a workout & tooth cleaning trick: you can carve the big meaty bit out, takes 30 seconds, and serve that with a turkey neck or something. next meal, serve the meaty bone and voila!

I buy all my plastic freezer bags at dollorama and reuse them (rinse in hot water and some dish soap, hang to dry), i bought one amazing meat cleaver in chinatown for $15, which i sharpen before cutting any meat with bones, it's tough as nails! YES there will be some initial set-up costs but look at what you are saving over the life of your dog... no vet teeth cleaning, no expensive chew-toys, no antibiotics and meds for this and that ailment or allergies or vomiting yadi yadi, no endless bags for the poop patrol, less shedding = less cleanup for your vaccuum, etc etc

i too "recycle" meal leftovers, all softer veggies get boiled with some rice and pureed, the dogs love the occasional white pasta, i freeze all the whole-grain bread just before it goes stale and that is one of their favorite treats (frozen bread slice), etc. nothing goes to waste here

[x.l.r.8]

carve the big meaty bit out took me 20 minutes :sad: had I known I would have jsut let him pick it clean, I just wasn't sure if it was classed as one of the weight bearing bones and be way to tough. I tried cutting through it (hence hte broken knife) but a cleaver would be the way to go.
And life is to short to wash up those bags, if it dosen't go in the dishwasher, it gets used once

[Scott_B]

If you watch them, you can beed those bones if they're meaty, then just remove the bone when they the meat off and you see them start to knaw on it. Thats what i do when i feed deer legs.

[technodoll]

nah, weight-bearing bones: think big thick bull legs and what can i say... i hate seeing perfectly good plastic bags go to waste

[babyrocky1]

Hi guys, I have been posting for a while on another thread about Rocky, my "pit bull" who is having alot of trouble with Gas! He is almost eight and Technodoll had recommended that I try raw, I have been reading over this whole thread and honestly I know its not going to happen, I am much too unorganized and very often dont have groceries in the apt for myself so dog food is just a better choice for us... Im also extremely squeemish about meat.
Anyhow, Rocky has been on wellness for a bit, I was switching him from Wysong cause his poo was very runny and he was gassy, then for weeks he was up all night with gas, no diariah but LOTS if gas! I now have the problem somewhat under control as I am feeding him his kibble (the mixture of both brands) in the am and late at night (i get home arounbd midnight) I have boiled chicken and brown rice for him. He is doing much better but I am wondering if I could continue to do something similar but switch his last meal to a raw meat and I also need to find a kibble that is better for him. I have also been wondering about eggs, I will try a bit of raw egg to his kibble in the am.... Im aware that what Ive done here with his diet cannot be permanent as Im sure hes getting to much chicken and rice but this is what has been helping with his tummy and our sleep! ( I guess what I am asking here is what a good meal at night might be with some raw ingrediants and if you guys thing this would help) I know that its said that some raw is better than none but I also get caught up in worrieng about how close or far apart I can feed the raw once hes eaten the cooked or the kibble. Right now he eats his kibble about noon and his late night around midnight but if Im home with him all day he will work on me for treats and snacks.

[technodoll]

babyrocky, your plan sounds really great kibble early in the day (rather mix in some plain yogurt or cooked meats... AND some digestive enzymes, get a broad-spectrum type at your local drugstore, they really work!) and a raw meal before bedtime, i would suggest some easy-to-digest ground meats with a raw egg mixed in, if he can tolerate it (crush the eggshell in there too, for the calcium). No need to cook anything, heck even I'M not that organized LOL! also, even in raw form, some types of meat can cause gas for certain dogs so it is a question of finding out what works best for your sweetie by trying things out

[babyrocky1]

Thanks Technodoll, I actually got him the enzymes but they didnt help so I have temporarily cut them out. This week I have stuck to the boiled chicken and rice at night, and sometimes even earlier in the day and his two kibles mixed together, the wysong and the Wellness, and this has been working. Much less gas but I would also say he is pooping alot, although not diariah... so maybe he is getting just too much food...
Anyhow, I was reluctant to try the raw til I could see for sure what was going on. I now feel that if he can digest his chicken and brown rice with no problem, its obviously something in the kibble, but he seems okay as long as he d oesnt eat the kibble at night. I am now looking for an easily digested "high end" kibble for him with as few ingrediants as possible in order to "keep it simple" and once I switch again I will reintroduce the enzymes if needed. I want to now try the raw and eventually do the kibble in the am and the raw at night, but I would like to try the raw first during the day, (just in case of diariah) so how long after must I wait after hes eaten kibble to give him raw? Or visa versa? (oh I tried to give him a small raw egg and he would have nothing to do with it!)

[technodoll]

try a frozen raw egg... peeled... most dogs love it as a treat! but served all slimy, uughh, most dogs prefer it mixed into other goodies...

just know that raw digests about 3 times faster than kibble, if that can help you plan your meals?... so if you feed at 9am and 6pm (for example) then i would do raw in the morning and kibble at night. but if you feed at 6am and 9pm, i would do the opposite... make sense?

[Myka]

I gotta resurrect this thread! It is awesome!!! I just read through the entire thread, and learned more than any book has ever offered me.

A few questions about probiotics: I'm picturing probiotics in a capsule...is that what you guys use? Where are you guys getting probiotics or do you use yogurt? Health food store? Drug store? How much for a 75lb dog? I want to use it in the beginning to help prevent diarrhea, how long should I have her on it?

Cheers!