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Old April 27th, 2004, 12:40 PM
Bill & Bob Bill & Bob is offline
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Halti

So, I've got a Halti (or gentle leader) or whatever they are called for Bob's first walk of the morning. Tried without for quite a while, but Bob was going to rip my shoulder out of the socket during our first walk of the day. Did the heel thing, did the choker chain (I didn't like that at all). He still pulled like a Clydesdale. When we go out later on he's better and I just use the collar, it's just that he's so excited first thing in the morning because he knows he's going to see his buddies and play.
Now, my question is...How long have these things been around and why does everyone think the damn thing is a muzzle!?! Even people who seem to know dogs really well look at me like I have a biting dog when they see it. First question "IS THAT A MUZZLE!?" If they don't think that, they think I'm being cruel or something. Of course I've put on my mind reading toque here, but it's just a vibe I get. Maybe I'm wrong. These things are pretty popular though aren't they? I've seen quite a few people using them.
Someone who's a trainer I talked to said that the dog would never be "truly disciplined" if I continued to use the thing. I think she was trying to get me to hire her on though. She recommended one of those damn shock collars! Couldn't believe it. Myself, I think of the Halti as simply as a tool that's available and alleviates a negative situation. Bob certainly is disciplined with the thing on, and I can get him to halt in his tracks and sit at every street corner, almost without having to open my yap or tugging the least little bit on the leash!
And another rant for the morning is why do people act like I'm restricting Bob because I don't walk him offleash when we're wandering about? Lots of people do. I'm not interested. He's boistorous, and not 100% under voice control and an 85 pound German/Belgian Shepherd, and I know I don't like it when I see dogs running through peoples gardens ripping them up and running up to people and scaring the crap out of them. If people want to walk their dog off leash, that's fine. It's not legal, but hey lots of people do it and that's their choice. Not my business, and I certainly don't bark at them if that's what they want to do. I just don't get it why people can't understand that I'm not interested in having an off leash dog. Now LEASHES I know have been around for a while and are a generally accepted tool.
Anyhoo, just wondering what popular opinion is out there.
I need more coffee. I'm feeling surly again today.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 01:23 PM
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Dee_petlover Dee_petlover is offline
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I have a response collar similar to the halti, and I have gotten the same strange reactions from people! My dog is about 80 lbs (a bluetick coonhound) and her size and the collar and I would see people avoiding me.

I thought it was a great thing, my dogs reaction to putting it on was great (she knew she was going for a walk). However, if one day I just wanted to snap on a leash I was finding that she was not learning not to pull, she was aware that the response collar controlled her from pulling, but as soon as it was not there she pulled.

My unprofessional opinion was that she really was not going to be trained that way. In the end I decided that I wanted her to learn so I could just put on a leash. I worked very hard, everyday using a clicker to reward her when she was not pulling, and I am happier this way (not to say the training is over, it isn't! A coonhound isn't exactly the easiest DAWG to train on a leash!)

I think it all comes down to personal preference, the fact of the matter is a large dog needs to be walked safely under the control of the owner and if you need the halti and it's working that is great!! I still have mine and I will use it if needed for a situation out of the ordinary for my dog, where she just wants to walk me.

And I agree people shouldn't be walking their dogs off leash in unsafe areas and infringing on peoples rights and property!
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Old April 27th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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I hear you! I have a pit bull, and it was suggested to me to use a Halti for her pulling, but I just know everyone would think it was a muzzle. (although why people think a muzzle would allow a dog to still have it's mouth uncovered, I don't know!)

And of course, other people with their unleashed and untrained dogs is my biggest peeve!

I cannot count the times I've heard, "It's o.k. - he/she is friendly!" as someone's uncontrolled, barking or growling dog rushes across the street towards us.

"But MINE is NOT!" I yell back at them. I guess they've never heard of the leash law, or think it does'nt apply to them cause their dog is sooooo "friendly". Blah!
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Old April 27th, 2004, 01:55 PM
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woodbyter woodbyter is offline
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Halti-Good idea

You have posed several good questions and I will throw my 2 cents worth in.

First of all I use the Halti (Gentel leader) or what ever you want to call it.
I have a super aggressive - very protective white German Shepherd that is around 90 pounds of steel watch spring muscle. Walking him is a chore for anyone and the only thing that easily controls him is the easy leader. He respects it, and responds to my control factor, without pain, to him.
Dog trainers are like auto mechanics. Some know what they are doing and a lot don't. As for shock collars I would put one on any person who recommended it to me and see how they like it.

Not every dog can be safely walked off leash. I know some people will disagree with me on this but having been a dog trainer- kennel owner - and rescuer for years I speak with some knowledge.
I have had people tell me any dog can be broken to behave off leash. Dogs should not be broken to respond. Humans don't respond the way we want all the time and we can communicate with each other. We try to understand our dogs but we don't always know what is going on in their minds or what will trigger them, just like we don't always understand what is going on in each other's minds at times.

I have been in dog parks and had people's dogs running loose and bothering others and myself. Some owners think they control their dogs but their idea of control and mine often differ, just as I sometimes differ with parents on what is a well behaved child in public.

Also in dog parks you meet and can understand why some dogs are ill behaved. I had one fellow tell me to move from a bench because his dog was hard to control and he didn't want his dog to start something with my dog (who is big - but was behaving). When I didn't close my book and jump to my feet he stood up to impress his point (he was about 6'2" 220) but when I finally got up he decided it was not where he wanted to sit anyway and moved on. Slumped on a park bench I don't look 300 or 6'10"


As for feeling surly- no problem I do too at times and sometimes am mistaken for being grumpy especially before coffee.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:24 PM
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chico2 chico2 is offline
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Dee,I would love to see a picture of your Blutick coon-hound
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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:49 PM
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amaruq amaruq is offline
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I say whatever works and your dog is safe...thats what counts. My border/dal will pull and pull and she is 4 yrs old. The gentle leader helps with that problem. Yes I get the "Oh gosh do they bite"
Lizard my Dal has a Lupi (harness for pulling but its used on the chest) No reaction to that but it does the same thing?

I hate stupid people...we had an incident at the park- we came upon a 3 month old lab and border mix. The people were talking to us and everything was cool. All of a sudden these people and their long haired shepards decended upon us and litterally just covered the pup. The one fellow went up into Lizzy's face. Bad bad bad thing to do to her and there was no way to get to her as I was pinned in the trees. I wrestled out of the way and the got my dogs the heck out of there. The poor pup was hysterical...you could hear it. We took off cause both peple and dogs were overwhelming. We seen the people with the pup later and even they said it was awful. The pup didn't seem traumatized by it but dang!!!!!! Stupid people....here's your sign lol!

I don't run mine off leash till we are in a fenced park....Liz is never off leash cause she loves to run after cars. I have her on a 15 lead..but want to find a 30 ft one.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 04:00 PM
Bill & Bob Bill & Bob is offline
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Now don't get me wrong, if people want to walk their dog off leash, my opinion remains, whatever floats your boat; but if an off leash dog gets in my dogs face on the street that's another issue all together. I will not hit another dog, but I'll certainly say some nasty things to the owner. Believe me, I'm the nicest guy in the world, but once I get started they'll be calling the crisis line when they get home. I agree with Woodbyter, that some dogs can and some can't. My friends dog is great off leash. When we get near a busy street, they usually put the dog on the lead until we're across. Again, if you like that, fine. Just don't come crying to me expecting lots of sympathy when your dog gets sprayed by a skunk or worse, nailed by a car because she was chasing a squirrel and ran across the street. You took the risk, you gambled and lost but your dog paid the bet.

My beef is that they keep bringing it up that "someday Bob will be able to be walked off leash when he grows up a bit", instead of being "tied down by being on the leash". I told them the other day, that I am simply not interested in having an off leash dog, full stop, end of sentence. I told them that I just don't like the idea. They looked surprised, and almost took it as an insult, and that I was inferring they were doing something wrong! Once I explained that I couldn't care less if they kept their dog on the leash or off, and it's their business not mine they seemed to appreciate my opinion a bit more.

Of course they are still trying to convince me and say that it's more "natural" to have the dog off leash. I explained that for one, having domesticated dogs isn't natural to begin with. Either are fast cars, buses, traffic, busy streets, other people on sidewalks, bad dog owners with angry dogs, stucco homes, poop bags, elevators, wheelchairs, pop cans, adsl service, the internet, ballpoint pens, guns, plastic, etc. Lots of things aren't natural! Thankyou for being master of stating the obvious!
Oops. I need more coffee again. Or maybe that's the problem today. Hmm. I think I'm just going to be grumpy all day.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 05:28 PM
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woodbyter woodbyter is offline
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OK lets all be natural

Hey the next time one of them starts yacking about being natural just water on the grass in front of them. Perfectly natural-dogs do it all the time...LOL
I am anti dog parks anyway-too many non responsible dog owners- too much disease.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:04 PM
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melanie melanie is offline
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ahhh i just hate irrisponsible owners (none of you ofcourse). when i see a dog with a gentle leader or muzzle i actually feel quite comfortable, hey they cannot attack my girl like they would without one. and muzzled dogs have problems, so i think it is nice for them to meet my girl who is very social and kind (not one to iniate a fight), it is nice for us and really nice for the owner as someone is actually treating their dog with kindness not like a killer and it also helps with the dogs rep as the other owners see me talking to it. i live in a small country town witbh lots of retirees, everyone here has little dogs and my girl (around 80 pound) is the biggest we know. and everyone avoids us like the plague, apparently a big dog is a natural killer, didnt you know??
i see all of these little dogs fighting and acting like they would kill my girl if they could, it drives me crazy. there is this social group at the park, of little dogs, never has anyone said hello or asked to meet my girl. when we go out she is on her lead and choke chain. we walk to the park (absolutly huge area, and fenced) and then she is let of leash. she walks beside me until we get to our spot. at our spot we throw the ball and she retrieves it and brings it to my feet. we also do our training excersises here. often i do the excersises to show others around what a good girl she is (and we like to show off, hey she is really clever and i want everyone to know it). any fool on the street could watch us and see the control i have. we can have someone walk 2 meters away from us with a greyhound and she doesnt move, doesnt care, just watches the others. and we do this everyday of the week and have for years. yet she is still treated poorly like she cant be trusted with the other little freaks. i can tell she wants to play with the others but cant, it is like she is the fat kid in the school yard and they tease her, well i just tell her they are freaks and not to be trusted anyway.
as far as dogs of leash coming to us, well that really gets me. if i see them coming i will call to the owner and say friendly or what. if the dog is not friendly watch out( and as many of you know some dogs just ocme in gunning for a fight). my girl is always getting picked on by dogs for fights, and at times has been attacked by more than one dog. well i see it as we are a team. you mess with her, you are messing with me. if a agressive dog attacks her well sorry but it has to fight both of us. once she was attacked by three dogs at once and i just started kicking (i know you may find this terrible but i feel it is my duty as a team to protect her). and god help the owners if they are around, cause once i get the dogs off my girl i will turn to the owner. and i tell you i will do anything for my dog, i dont care what, she is my baby and will be treated that way. i find when she also gets attacked i point out to the owner her (my dogs) insurance details and make it clear if their uncontrolled dog hurts her my insurance company will sue them, that always helps. sorry for the carry on but it is such an annoying topic.see bill, we are many a surly people here, now where is my cigerettes and tea
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Old April 27th, 2004, 07:23 PM
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Dee_petlover Dee_petlover is offline
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Chico2, would love to attach a picture, but I am having trouble. How do I do it, I have clicked on manage attachments, selected a file and it never works. I have had this problem before on other sites with a similar way of uploading I can't seem to figure it out, any ideas??
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Old April 27th, 2004, 07:34 PM
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Spoiled Spoiled is offline
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"Someone who's a trainer I talked to said that the dog would never be "truly disciplined" if I continued to use the thing"

This is true for most dogs.

Well, what I think is that if you use one of those things, it is easier on you, but you aren't really training the dog not to pull. I have used one on a dog more than half my weight, but soon I realized, if I was ever going to teach the dog not to pull, I'd have to use a choker chain.

I started training in the backyard with a number of different distractions, with the dog on the choker chain. When the dog began to lunge one way, I'd walk the other way, so he'd get a large "pop" on the leash. After a few times like this, he actualy payed attention to me, and I put him on his regular collar.

Time and efort will make a big difference. When you see your dog about to lunge, quietly walk the other way so he gets a really BIG jerk on the leash when he lunges. Try circling to get his attention when he seems to pull in the other direction. It'll all work out.

And this is funny: I saw a tiny dog not more than 10 lbs with a gentle leader on! So don't feel bad about using it in public places where you know that he will be pulling if it makes better control for you.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 09:50 PM
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chico2 chico2 is offline
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Dee,I am not good at explaining Pc-stuff,but I have my pics scanned and in my Pc-album,before I can post them,I've had to make them smaller.
I don't have a digi-cam like Luba,just a regular camera.
I am going to post one pic and write down how I do it,ok...
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Old April 27th, 2004, 09:52 PM
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chico2 chico2 is offline
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It is fairly simple...click on Manage attachment,then click on Browse,chose your picture and click on Upload and click on the lower Submit Reply.
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