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  #31  
Old February 25th, 2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
We humans are very quick at yelling "kill"or calling wild animals pests as soon as they become an inconvenience,what gives us the right

Granted,this poor dogs demise was more than an inconvenience,however had this tiny dog been watched properly this would not have happened.
The owner said he was right there,but I somehow doubt that.

The wooded ravine area this happened,has probably been Coyote territory long before humans moved in,wild animals IMO,only adds to the beauty of living rural or in this case,in a wooded ravine.
I would say,leave him be,soon the area will be crawling with prey and with no Coyotes around,people will be complaining about rabbits eating their gardens
I have even seen Coyotes here in a very built up old area,I was thrilled when I saw one,the same way as when I saw a little Fox.
People have to learn to respect wild-life and look after their pets.
Maybe some people will keep their cats inside and that can only be good.
Chico2 - so well said and you are so right. Seeing what you wrote I am no longer 'on the fence'. Excellent post!
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  #32  
Old February 25th, 2009, 06:03 PM
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Wow this has been an interesting read.

THank you ACO22 for always bringing some interesting subjects to us! I think it is great to keep people thinking and reminding us all of different aspects! I havent read the whole story or viewed the news yet but I just wanted to say that I am fascinated when I see a coyote or a fox because you dont see them all that often but I always think how much we have encrouched (sp) on their territorys and places to live? its truly sad that we have forced them to places they are not used to! Its like the bears that come into the city because they are starving...yet we drove them to starvation in many ways? tough subject but one that must be discussed.

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  #33  
Old February 25th, 2009, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris21711 View Post
Personally I have never heard of an attack on humans by coyotes, the ODD wolf attack but not coyote.
Funny, I was lead to beleive They came across on the ice.
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  #34  
Old February 25th, 2009, 07:05 PM
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Hate to tell you Chris but babymomma is right about how the coyote's got to newfoundland


The predators, which aren't native to the island, are believed to have crossed over from the mainland on pack ice 20 years ago.
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  #35  
Old February 25th, 2009, 07:18 PM
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Well the coyote's are here in Hamilton..A couple have been spotted here. I had a friend of mine tell me that there was one in Stoney Creek..I'm thinking it has alot to do with the Red Hill Creek. As I have seen more foxes and Deer around.

There was actually a Poodle type dog that was attacked by a coyote about a month ago.

I would like it if they could catch and relocate these beauties.
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  #36  
Old February 25th, 2009, 07:51 PM
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How is a coyote humanely trapped and humanely euthanized ? Can't see them going along for the ride without experiencing great trauma :sad:. If it's decided that it be killed, somehow I think a quick accurate shot is the most humane way to go about it. Poor Coyote :sad:.

Another question for thought, there are dogs that aren't socialized who don't recognize babies and toddlers as humans, why would a coyote fear a young child? Especially if hungry and looking for prey?
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  #37  
Old February 25th, 2009, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Another question for thought, there are dogs that aren't socialized who don't recognize babies and toddlers as humans, why would a coyote fear a young child? Especially if hungry and looking for prey?
See the thing is,they won't fear a young child...Here there is a warning for pets and young children..It was said that they will go after them.
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  #38  
Old February 25th, 2009, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
How is a coyote humanely trapped and humanely euthanized ? Can't see them going along for the ride without experiencing great trauma :sad:. If it's decided that it be killed, somehow I think a quick accurate shot is the most humane way to go about it. Poor Coyote :sad:.

My thoughts exactly. The animal will be so traumatized by the trapping that there will be no chance of euthanizing it humanely...unless they gas it, and I'm not sure that falls in the 'humane' category.

Another question for thought, there are dogs that aren't socialized who don't recognize babies and toddlers as humans, why would a coyote fear a young child? Especially if hungry and looking for prey?
Coyotes do not fear young children. An acquaintance of mine shot a coyote skulking up his drive after his 3-yr-old child as she played in the yard.

They are beautiful and interesting, but far from endangered. In fact, coyotes seem to be expanding their range. They are really very adaptable and clever. You really have to admire an animal that can do so well right under humanity's nose. Unfortunately, that adaptability sometimes creates conflict, as in the case of the dog and our neighbor's child.
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  #39  
Old February 25th, 2009, 09:45 PM
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I say let him live......and as L4H posted when we move into "their territory" we need to adjust our ways and secure our property to ensure they don't eat our pets.

I find them to be amazingly adaptable, to be able to live and even thrive alongside and next door to humans is no easy feat.

We also have coyotes, and they actually come right up to our back fence (we back on to an overgrown greenbelt) I have no worries of them eating my pets, because my cats don't go out and we have ensured the fence is high enough and secure enough to keep them out, why can't these people do the same
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  #40  
Old February 25th, 2009, 09:55 PM
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I'm siding with the coyote on this one. Living near a ravine has it's advantages and disadvantages. They can remove this coyote, but there will be more. Coyotes turf. Tiny dog out in a backyard alone with a fence not high enough to stop most large dogs from jumping it let alone a coyote. A hawk would find the same dog in the same yard just as easy prey. I doubt they would be out trying to shoot the hawk.
I've lived here for over 25 years with coyotes on the other side of our 8 foot tall fence behind the yard. Our dogs are not left outside alone. I'm sure the coyotes have got other peoples dogs around here and other peoples cats. Not everyone keeps their back fences in good repair making it easy for them to come into the neighbourhood if they choose. These are the same coyotes that are part of the airport pack that they tried to have a hunt to remove years ago and they didn't get one of them.
Coyotes keep a natural balance as any large predator does. They control rats, squirrels, mice and even help control the deer populations.
Leave them be and start acting like responsible people living with wildlife instead of trying to kill it.

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  #41  
Old February 26th, 2009, 09:24 AM
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[QUOTE=luckypenny;751326]How is a coyote humanely trapped and humanely euthanized ? QUOTE]

LP have you ever seen how they euthanize wildlife? The animal is trapped, through the cage an injection is administered to sedate and then euthonal is administered.

As for shooting....well I went on a hunting expedition once to see for myself what happens. It truly is very sad and it is rare that an animal drops dead immediately from one shot. I can't tell you how horrible it is to see an animal struggle to get up from a bad aim.

I agree with most here. I think he should live.
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  #42  
Old February 26th, 2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
Funny, I was lead to beleive They came across on the ice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aslan View Post
Hate to tell you Chris but babymomma is right about how the coyote's got to newfoundland
I stand corrected, I was unaware

Oh Aslan, please don't hate to tell me when I am wrong about something, if I am wrong, I'm wrong.
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  #43  
Old February 26th, 2009, 09:47 AM
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I have seen how they euthanize wild animals. The animal always spends a number of hours stressing in the trap, and often gets ballistic at the approach of humans.

I have also seen animals shot. If you do it right, the animal drops.

Either way there is a death involved and in neither case is it necessarily humane. :sad:

My biggest concern, regardless of how it's down, is that there is never 100% certainty (unless caught in the act) that the right animal is destroyed. And often, as in this case, how likely is the coyote to do the same again, anyway? Coyotes are opportunists and take a chance when they see it. Is it likely the same opportunity will offer itself again?

If the opportunity to take a pet comes up frequently, then it behooves the humans to take steps to prevent it, whether it be by securing the fence, making it higher, or whatever--and first and foremost, better supervision of pets when they're outside. Because even if a 'problem' coyote is destroyed, there are enough other coyotes out there capable of coming in and taking advantage of those same opportunities for a quick meal.
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  #44  
Old February 26th, 2009, 10:47 AM
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You are right on many counts Hazel, but if we choose to live in areas that were previously the main domaine of wildlife then it is not the animals that are having difficulty co-habitating - it is us.

We have caused this imbalance and yet our solution is to exterminate rather than find solutions. Animals will adjust and we will not.

As for the shooting of an animal - sorry I have seen enough of that. Unless someone is an excellent marksmen then I just do not think that this is a 'good' option.
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  #45  
Old February 26th, 2009, 12:03 PM
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Actually, I'm agreeing with you. I don't condone shooting this coyote, merely commenting on what method, imo, would be more humane if it were done Nowhere did I say it should be done.

Now, if the animal were out at an unusual (for a coyote) time of day and displaying abnormal behavior, it would be a different story. Around here, coyotes and racoons have been known to contract rabies and the authorities monitor the populations as closely as possible.

And I did offer some solutions--better supervision, better fencing, etc. It is up to the humans to make the solution work when problems occur.

However, one thing that continues to pop up is the idea that humans are necessarily moving in on traditional coyote territory. This isn't strictly true. Coyote ranges have been expanding into new areas, including into cities, in recent years, and this also creates problems.

Regardless, the solutions are the same.
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  #46  
Old February 26th, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Actually, I'm agreeing with you. I don't condone shooting this coyote, merely commenting on what method, imo, would be more humane if it were done Nowhere did I say it should be done.
No where did I say any different about the word 'should'. So we agree about the problem but the method is still up in the air.

I have a feeling that the fate is sealed for this survivor for this reason we have gone a little off topis as to how this will unfold in regards to the method they will use.
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  #47  
Old February 26th, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Coyotes have expanded north and eastward. They are exploding in population and the only way to control their population is to eliminate their food or to have natural predators, that is mother nature. To eliminate one or two coyotes and to leave their food source, will only allow for a new pack to move in.

There is no good way to kill a wild animal in my mind :sad:.

Sooooooo, to me that leaves education and safe practises to ensure pets and children are safe. If you have pets, they usually know before we do that there are coyotes in the area, learn to read their signs that there is something outside that is not right.

And yes they will attack children, they have even attacked teens, but on the whole, they are afraid of humans.
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  #48  
Old February 27th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
if we choose to live in areas that were previously the main domaine of wildlife then it is not the animals that are having difficulty co-habitating - it is us.We have caused this imbalance and yet our solution is to exterminate rather than find solutions. Animals will adjust and we will not.

So well said Bexmax...so well said.

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  #49  
Old February 27th, 2009, 04:47 PM
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In the Toronto Star this morning,there was a pic of this beautiful animal,apparently they are looking for his/her den,I don't even want to think of what's going to happen once they find it:sad:
To me it's just so darn sad..
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  #50  
Old February 27th, 2009, 05:37 PM
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In the Toronto Star this morning,there was a pic of this beautiful animal,apparently they are looking for his/her den,I don't even want to think of what's going to happen once they find it:sad:
To me it's just so darn sad..
Yeah...very true. And think TAS is suppose to be a Animal Welfare Organization.

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  #51  
Old February 27th, 2009, 05:38 PM
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In the Toronto Star this morning,there was a pic of this beautiful animal,apparently they are looking for his/her den,I don't even want to think of what's going to happen once they find it:sad:
To me it's just so darn sad..
It is sad Chico2 - my thoughts are with this poor animal. What is this world coming to. We are at war with our fellow man and now animals. Pathetic.:sad:
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  #52  
Old February 28th, 2009, 12:54 AM
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When will people (as a whole) learn to coexist with wildlife? If it's not seals or cormorants, geese, snakes, alligators (people are actually surprised when they become a "problem" when they build ther expensive homes into their territory), deer, bears, wolves, cougars, it's my favorite wild animal, coyotes.

Removing the coyote will definately bring more in, just as it's been shown that killing feral cats is not the answer. Some very informative coyote sites:

http://www.easterncoyoteresearch.org
http://www.coyoterescue.org
http://coyoteinfo.typepad.com/my_weblog/ (contains some very sad, graphic images of coyote abuse that would not be tolerated if it was something "cute" like a Golden Retriever or a kitten)

Seems Hamilton's animal control is much more educated on coyotes. I sent them an email with the links to these websites and they emailed me back with an pamphlet that they will be giving to Hamiltonians on how to coexist with coyotes. Here's hoping Toronto will do the same.
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  #53  
Old February 28th, 2009, 08:33 AM
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MOTD,I remember the frenzied shoot-out of the Cormorants:sad:the killing of hundreds of Raccoons and Foxes by the Ministry of Natural Resources
I won't even think of the annual Seal-hunt:sad:
Hamilton seems to me to be more animal-friendly,I have dealt with Hamilton HS at one time and they were great,dealt very quickly with an Bunny-abuse case.
When we moved to Oakville many years ago,we were 2 minutes away from farm-land,cows grazing,now it's all built up with rows and rows of ugly houses and it's still going on...no room for wildlife:sad:
the Coyotes will be safe
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  #54  
Old February 28th, 2009, 06:48 PM
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A short video of the coyote walking the neightbourhood, taken by a Toronto Star reporter:

http://www.thestar.com/fpLarge/video/593440
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  #55  
Old February 28th, 2009, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
if we choose to live in areas that were previously the main domaine of wildlife then it is not the animals that are having difficulty co-habitating - it is us.

We have caused this imbalance and yet our solution is to exterminate rather than find solutions. Animals will adjust and we will not.
I can't tell you the number of times I've used that as an arguement when people start complaining about having to deal with wildlife, (my dad's always complaining about geese on the golf course... people whining about wild animals eating their garbage...etc etc). The farther we keep extending ourselves (and I can't tell you how much all those gaudy cookie cutter subdivisions with no green areas irk me).... the less space that is left for all the creatures that lived there for centuries before us. We push them out of their homes and territories and then get angry when they find ways to adapt. Somedays I think we need a reminder that we are not the top of the food chain simply because we say we are, nor do we have the right to decide the fates of every other living being!

and 'we' is not referring to us in particular but humans in general...
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  #56  
Old March 1st, 2009, 08:15 AM
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Dahmer,my sentiment exactly!!
Chris thank's,he is a beautiful animal for sure.
The lady talking(did not have my sound on) now at least gets off her butt going outside with her little pooch
Honestly,I would feel a little antsy too,would watch him from a safe distance,but at the same time be in awe over this wild creature,it would never enter my mind to have him killed.
I would of course keep my cats safe,but we always do.
When people buy these homes,maybe they should be warned about the wildlife that comes with the natural beauty they chose to live in.
What's next on the agenda???Raccoons,Deer,Skunks,Groundhogs,Possums,H awks,oh and of course the dreaded Geese,who poop and the destructive Squirrels
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  #57  
Old March 1st, 2009, 01:46 PM
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k, So i decided to check out a book from the library about coyotes.

Shooting them will not do ANY good and may make the situation worse.

When the coyote population decreases in a certain "turf", females will start having more puppies to bring it back up.

When it increases to high, females will cull puppies so that the population isnt too high as the food sources decrease.
or just not have pups. Apparently they are more in control then dogs
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  #58  
Old March 1st, 2009, 01:57 PM
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If everyone who owned pets kept them in a secure fenced backyard the coyotes wouldn't be able to get at them. I'm talking about a 6 foot fence with no space below it. Lock your gates as well as people have been known to steal them right from the backyard too.
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  #59  
Old March 3rd, 2009, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
MOTD,I remember the frenzied shoot-out of the Cormorants:sad:the killing of hundreds of Raccoons and Foxes by the Ministry of Natural Resources
I won't even think of the annual Seal-hunt:sad:
Hamilton seems to me to be more animal-friendly,I have dealt with Hamilton HS at one time and they were great,dealt very quickly with an Bunny-abuse case.
When we moved to Oakville many years ago,we were 2 minutes away from farm-land,cows grazing,now it's all built up with rows and rows of ugly houses and it's still going on...no room for wildlife:sad:
the Coyotes will be safe
My thoughts exactly! Lets not forgot when they wanted to trap the beavers in Bayfront Park Gee, a beaver in a lake? How shocking! MNR harasses legitimate wildlife rehabbers yet completely ignores roadsidze zoos. Ugh.

It boggles my mind that Toronto overreacts to coyotes and pit bulls but not to real human predators.
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  #60  
Old March 3rd, 2009, 07:10 AM
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k, So i decided to check out a book from the library about coyotes.

Shooting them will not do ANY good and may make the situation worse.

When the coyote population decreases in a certain "turf", females will start having more puppies to bring it back up.

When it increases to high, females will cull puppies so that the population isnt too high as the food sources decrease.
or just not have pups. Apparently they are more in control then dogs

Wolves are the same, only the Alpha male and female breed, but if "we" (meaning dumb humans) try and control their populations by killing them, then all the wolves in the pack will breed to compensate for it.
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