So You Think You Can Just Adopt a Dog?

[Prin]

But IMO, there are a lot worse ways of spending $10...

[technodoll]

ah OK, thanks... it did sound quite unusual IMO

[vona]

Originally Posted by Prin

First, you say you're a physician- what that means to the rest of the world is you are never home, when there is a specific demand for being home a LOT for this dog.

Second, sure, you have money to pay vet bills, but those vet bills come from dogs living with your other animals.

What you don't know but this rescue site did is that I am a psychiatrist and work out of my property. I am home all day long and my patients love coming here because they can interact with the animals. The dogs are with me all the time. They are extremely well socialized due to the constant contact with people they get to know very well.

Secondly, my vet bills don't come from dogs living with my other animals. They come from orthopedic surgeries and expensive medical care due to the condition my animals are in when I rescue them. I rescue large animals - horses, llamas, alpacas, cows, pigs and goats. I have a large acreage and I take in animals that have been abused. They live their days out here in retirement with the best care.

Twice a year my vet and an assistant come here to do checkups, deworm, give shots, float teeth, etc., etc.

This rescue outfit knew all of this.

And no, they do not refund the $10 if they reject your home.

I am single and my animals are my family. Anyone who knows me knows the idea that a dog wouldn't get a great deal of individual attention is quite ludicrous.

I did have a situation recently (and I also told this rescue site this) where my geriatric Belgian Shepherd was kicked by a horse (not one of mine) and shattered his right front leg. I sent the dog up to Prince George for orthopedic surgery (quoted at $4,000) which I gladly paid. However, due to miscommunications between the clinic here and the clinic in Prince George, the limb was NOT immobilized for the day the dog was in this clinic. This resulted in gross swelling and compacting of the distal ends of the bones. My dog did well with the surgery but soon after the muscles and extensor tendon necrosed. After a week and a half of twice daily dressing changes, drains, debridement, etc. the limb had to be amputated. Total cost - $8,300.00 and I have a seriously disabled dog now. He can no long go for walks with us. This was part of the reason I was looking for a younger dog that needed an active lifestyle and was good with other dogs. Shadow is a real trooper and he's rediscovering his balance but it has meant improvising a new dog door for him and trying to find all sorts of ways to keep his quality of life good. We're doing alright but it has all been very sad.

[technodoll]

vona... please don't give up your search... some sweet soul out there is waiting for you to be his (or her) angel and Fate will bring you together soon

[vona]

Prin, I tell you what. Since you appear to have found the dog in question, you look at the requirements and needs they said they wanted for the dog. Then look at what I've said to date. You tell me if you don't think this dog would have had a good life here. And don't just make assumptions about my lifestyle - ask me questions!

I offerred to go down to Vancouver (a 7 hour drive) and meet with them and the family/foster family. I suggested that if they met me they might feel reassured. They did not even respond to my request. The door was shut. They didn't ask any questions, they just made up their minds without investigating further. My references included the head of the S.P.C.A. (who is retiring and will be my housesitter when I'm away from now on), numerous vets and dog trainers. They didn't even want to talk to them.

Sure, I'm tenacious. That quality got me through medical school and the residency. It also works in the favour of my animals because I don't give up easily. I fight for my animals. It saddened me that I didn't get the opportunity to adopt this dog because I don't adopt lightly. I take good advice when it is offerred but it angers me when (for whatever reason) I'm refused and I know that the animal is the ultimate loser.

Give me one good reason why you think that dog wouldn't have been exceptionally happy and well taken care of with me. And ask me any questions you'd like.

[Prin]

That's the thing- from my experience with rescues, they don't have time to ask more questions. If they don't like you for some reason, they'll pass right away, no questions asked. So while you think I'm making assumptions, I AM, based on what you said prior, which is what they do. One bad assumption on their part and they move on to the next application.

It's like getting into med school- doesn't matter who you are, if you don't look perfect on paper, you don't get to the next level.

[technodoll]

hmmm... so if i ever want to adopt a furkid, on the application i should write "very wealthy and healthy stay-at-home wife of a dog trainer, no kids, no pets, no drug or alcohol or gambling problems, live on private fenced estate"?

[Prin]

no, leave out the gambling/drinking part.

Wealthy, stay at home mom with no pets (depending on the pet in question) but very extensive prior pet knowledge and extensive vet and rescue references with a 100 acre fenced in yard...

[Hunter's_owner]

Maybe that would work TD

While I understand that rescues are looking out for the best interests of the animals, sometimes I do disagree with their reasoning...
My cousin and her husband are both vets. My cousin practised for 2 years and then went back to do a residency in radiology, her husband is still practising. Anyways, last year, they applied for a golden rescue and got turned down
So when things like this happen, I have to wonder...

[Prin]

Yeah, but vets are never home.

[technodoll]

Originally Posted by prin

Wealthy, stay at home mom with no pets (depending on the pet in question) but very extensive prior pet knowledge and extensive vet and rescue references with a 100 acre fenced in yard...

....who owns a petshop and a dog grooming salon... does not operate heavy machinery under the influence of gin martinis...

[Prin]

No, no, you can't own anything because that makes you busy. Your brother/sister owns a grooming salon/daycare and your other brother/sister is a vet.

[technodoll]

he he he and your "godfather" owns the town!

[Prin]

yeah lol... Even if he won't give you a job.

[vona]

Very funny, you guys! Anyway, Prin, if you look at my first post I said that I worked at home and always around. I think, like you, they didn't read the whole thing. What's the point of these 6 page application forms if they're not read carefully. I wrote her and told her that I needed to give her even more information than what the form asked for (have you ever seen those forms??). Again, no questions, just a refusal. I believe that if you're going to operate a rescue site you SHOULD take the time to read the information. I mean, you're supposed to be looking after the dog's best interest, not your own. If you don't have the time, don't do the work. Hmmm, sounds very much like what they said to me...

This is why (also based on what I've heard from other people who have dealt with her) I think there may be something else going on. It's totally irresponsible to run a rescue outfit, get people's hopes up, demand time-consuming application forms and references and then just make a snap decision because you don't read what you've requested.

GRRRRR!! I guess I'm so upset because I had just been through another misunderstanding with Shadow. All the vets at this clinic know that when one of my animals comes in, they shouldn't make assumptions as to what the outcome will necessarily be. In this case, we have a brand new vet whom I had never worked with before. She just assumed that because Shadow was 13 I would choose either euthanasia or amputation. So she did nothing - no pain medication, no IM antibiotics and she didn't splint the limb. Had the clinic not been so busy that day one of the other vets would have clued her in. And because they were so busy the front staff didn't communicate with the back staff and the vet didn't communicate with anyone. Not even me! She didn't even pick up the phone to ask me what I wanted to do. The vet in Prince George talked to someone at the front and he talked to the vet (asking her to do those three simple things) but nothing got done. By the end of the day, when I picked Shadow up to take him to Prince George (a 3 hour drive) the damage was done.

And now again I've experienced this misunderstanding with the rescue association.

While I carry the angst and the grief, these animals are by far the true sufferers. Thank God animals aren't capable of self-pity!

One last thing - even if such a perfect person existed, if they applied the rescue site would assume they were lying. (As they would be).

[vona]

Well, I guess this opens up another topic.

I was taught and understood in medical school and the residency that the 'buck stops with me'. It doesn't matter if I'm busy or overworked or even overwhelmed. If I take on a patient, that patient becomes my responsibility.

If someone laid a complaint against the College, my defense could not be "oh, I was just so busy, I had so much else to do".

Perhaps that's why I am such an advocate for my animals and any animal that eventually arrives here - I am totally responsible for what happens to any animal that arrives on this property.

Prin, you said something about if we didn't look good on paper, we wouldn't have gotten in. Well that's wrong. We had to prove volunteer work, we had 3 interviews with very harsh physicians who were looking for any reason to exlude us, we had to write an autobiography, we had to have many, respectible references. We had to have grades about 84%. I was a woman and when I applied, it was 1979. It was definately not all about paper and I know that perspective has even become more intense.

I wanted to be a vet. I got my Bachelor's degree in Zoology and I worked as a vet assistant. But, things take odd turns in life and I ended up applying to medical school. I was accepted the first time which was unusual because most people had to do qualifying years and apply 2-3 times. I hated medical school. I hated the fact that people were being referred to as "the liver in 252" and "the heart in 310". When I did my first elective in psychiatry, I felt honored to be able to sit with these people and hear their life stories. I finally got the opportunity to get to know my patients and I found my niche. I have never regreted this decision and at 54 I am happier than I ever was.

I am glad I didn't become a vet. Now, I have this practice and because of my income I can give my animals the best home possible. I don't have to euthanize them or be exposed directly to the abuse they may suffer. I can do the gentle things - give them a good home, good care, lots of love and all the things I can come up with that would make an animal happy.

I read a lot. I try to educate myself as to what each animal may need.

I'm not perfect. Noone is. For 13 years I had Shadow and I took very good care of him. It hurts me when people think I did something to expose him to danger. I take every precaution known to me to make sure my animals are safe.

But, one day, a neighbour came by on horseback with two of his kids on horseback. Around here everyone has horses and everyone rides. I make sure that when my patients come they only bring the dogs we can assure will get along with my dogs. Horses are frightened by llamas when they first meet them and I was out with my dogs, feeding. We do this every weekend. I was hospitable but I remember thinking that these were strange horses around my dogs. Before I knew it, one of neighbour's kids' horses reared when he saw the llamas. Poor Shadow was at the back end and the leg of the horse connected with Shadow's.

What is that saying? - "The best laid plans by mice or men". I don't know. I had Shadow for all of these years and then in just one swift moment our lives changed forever.

I carry the responsibility I feel towards my patients into my responsibility to my animals. I am responsible for what happened to Shadow. Just as I would be responsible for what happened to any dog I rescued.

[Frenchy]

ha ha ha real funny you guys

[CyberKitten]

Prin, I have to disagree with this comment:

"First, you say you're a physician- what that means to the rest of the world is you are never home, when there is a specific demand for being home a LOT for this dog."

I am sure you mean well but your observation does not mean that (ie that phyicians are never home) in the world I live in. And if you do your research, you would know that the lifestyles of doctors are changing and many - esp women - choose specialties that give them more time. You do not need to do to the research - it is in many news articles about the need for more doctors. Would you say that to a doctor who has children? I do not want to get into some protracted debate but with all due respect, it is is discriminatory and judgemental to assume how others live. None of us has any idea about the lives and professions of others.

I am a physician and yes I work very long hours but I have three cats who get the best possible care and as you know, one is a certified therapy cat. I have several close friends who are physicians who have dogs who have the most wondcerful lives. I do not believe economic ability is the best indicator for pet "ownership" (I dont believe we really can "own" a living breathing creature tho such is the law of our land But that's another issue, lol)

I have also had dogs and they all enjoyed great lives.

I do think rescue centers need to examine one's lifestyle and that includes one's job but that is just one aspect of it. The vast majority of the population work long hours. My brother is a firefighter and has two dogs. It is not only doctors who work long hours. People lead busy lives regardless of their occupation - they volunteer, they have families- our lives are undoubtedly more complicated than our ancestors, unless of course we opt for some alterbative life style which some people do.

Some of us are also ill - or could become ill. Seniors do very well with senior pets for example. (Tho I am a strong proponent of people having living wills outlining how their pets will be cared for, in the same way they make arrangements for their children.)

My cats are like my children - my furbabies - and no rescue has ever told me my profession was a negative factor. Like any busy parent, I hire pet sitters if I have to be away. My Siamese comes to work with me and one of my best friends who is a GP brings her small dog to work on occasion. He too is a therapy dog.

I do not think anyone's occupation (I have seen homeless people who care for their pets better than themselves, better than some middle class "status" pets I have seen actually) should preclude them in an application process. Someone who travels a lot may need to make arrangements but most of us have families. Would you allow an adoption to a physician with a family yet not to one who lives alone? That is discrimination again because single people (I am not single, I share my life with someone) make excellent dog or cat or rabbit "owners".

Now, I would absolutely - as a rescue person - want to know how anyone, regardless of their profession - will care for their pet when they are away or busy - a fact that actually defines the majority of workers, minus the slackers of course or those who for whatever reason choose not to work or who cannot due to disability or some other factor.

I do think it should be akin to an adoption process but physicians are never singled out for such severe treatment by social service agencies when we choose to adopt. Nor should they be in the selection process by pet rescues. They should of course be assessed in the same way anyone with any other profession is - and if there are factors that make them unsuitable for a particular breed or dog or cat (Not all people for example should be approved for adoption by reputable breeders or rescues for Siamese cats for example- they are high maintenance and demand much attention but are loving and very people oriented in return. The same is true of many dog breeds. Not everyone can cope with high energy labs. There are many examples.)

We have several university students on this Board who seem to be excellent at caring for their pets (Puppyluv and Meb99 come to mind but you all know who you are) and I recall my days as a student and it was prob much busier than now. I guess without belabouring my point - in the end,. no one should be turned down for adoption of any animal solely on the basis of what they do for a living whether they are someone on minimum wage who has 3 other jobs to make ends meet or a physician who works the same number of hours a week.

What is important is how much knowledge they have about the breed they seek (or breeds of the dog or cat if it a mixed breed), whether they can care for the pet, how responsible they are, can they afford a pet, if they have children - how the animal would be integrated in the family, etc,etc. My best advice to rescue agencies would be to monitor the family, in the same way adoption agencies of human children do. Rather than scare people away from a needed thorough process, kindly explain why knowing so much info is important and then find a period of probation with home visits. Observing a pet in the context of a home is much more telling than sitting in an office with one person from the family - and they need to make sure everyone in the family wants a new member!!

I may get vitually yelled at for suggesting this (but I have broad shoulders, I have to - I have been shot at, am surviving cancer and other debilitated illnesses, debated some pompous politicians in public (Not all politicians are bad which is why I had to use that adjective, lol), among other things. But perhaps some rescue agencies can learn from reputable breeders who keep tabs on their cats and dogs for the rest of the animals' lives. That is one of the best indicators of a good breeder btw. It's not easy but if a group seeks to take responsibility for placing animals, they also must examine the ethics and governance of this work.

Anyway, nuff said. My point - in short - 95% of us are busy regardless of the work we do!! (and that includes unpaid work in the home or students) And agencies cannot afford to be judgemental and base adoptions on potential adoptees' occupation.

[technodoll]

cyberkitten... that is a whole lotta SENSE and i'm glad you took the time to write that it was lurking in the back of my head when reading this thread, but since i don't know much about rescues i didn't dare say anything... thank you for being a kind and educational voice

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by CyberKitten

And agencies cannot afford to be judgemental and base adoptions on potential adoptees' occupation.

I never asked any future adopters what they did for a living. I don't think too many rescue do

[Prin]

CK, who watches your pets when you have 48 hour shifts? I have an uncle who is a doctor and his family NEVER sees him. My own doctor starts work at 5AM and finishes wayyy after dark.

Doesn't mean they're bad people, just means they're not the ideal that the rescues are looking for- and they need extra people in their lives to look after their pets.

YES it is stereotyping, but I'm trying to explain it from the point of view of a person who has literally 3 seconds to decide whether or not you're right for that dog.

Honestly, CK, don't take everything so personally. Not everything is a direct attack on you.

I think, like you, they didn't read the whole thing.

Exactly what I am trying to say. I did read your whole post and I saw all that, but I'm just saying what they probably saw that turned them off.

They don't have time or energy to mull over every applicant. If somebody looks great, they'll skip everybody they might have questions for for that person instead. Some rescues say they get upwards of 200 applications for each dog, especially puppies. WHY would they waste time on one they had any doubt about when they have dozens upon dozens of others?

That's my point. These people are like customs agents- they take one short glance at you and judge your whole life by that glance.

We have several university students on this Board who seem to be excellent at caring for their pets (Puppyluv and Meb99 come to mind but you all know who you are) and I recall my days as a student and it was prob much busier than now

And if you look at most rescues' policies, most do not adopt to students either.

Same as I said above. Doesn't mean they're bad people who should not have pets. But if somebody fits the description we were joking about above, OBVIOUSLY the rescue will pick them.

And if a particular rescue has its stereotypes about doctors/students/whatever, they will pass over them too. That's ALL I'm saying. .

Seriously, I'm not dissing doctors or anybody. You ask me to put myself in your shoes- put yourself in a rescue's shoes.

[vona]

[QUOTE=Prin;322560]CK
YES it is stereotyping, but I'm trying to explain it from the point of view of a person who has literally 3 seconds to decide whether or not you're right for that dog.

Well, if all you have is 3 seconds, you shouldn't be in the business of determining who is the best home for one of your animals.

And if that is all you have, you better make use of those seconds because it is the dog that will suffer in the end.

I think from now on I will deal with the S.P.C.A. and the breeders. I adopted two dogs from rescue sites and I didn't have a problem at all with them. It was this experience that has turned me off. If I contact a breeder they write me back, they TALK to me. If I contact the S.P.C.A. (given and understood that here in Williams Lake, they know me) I KNOW that I will get honest and upfront information.

What a shame. While rescue sites may hope to find the best home for their dogs, this latest experience has turned me completely off from even trying to deal with them.

For the dog in question, I feel sad. I do think about where he is going to go and how is life is going to turn out. I'm not saying that I am the best home - I just know that I could have and would have done everything to make him happy and healthy.

There are so many animals out there that need rescue. I wish this particular resuce site who is trying to adopt out their dogs would have some sense of balance.

As a psychiatrist, I see all the time how people are misjudged and misunderstood. So many others think that just because they come to a psychiatrist, they must be defective in some way. Such a falacy! Those who come are the ones who are devoted to their mental health - they WANT to change.

If all people can do is to give 3 seconds of their time, they are going to make mistakes. I see examples of that all the time.

Animals can't speak for themselves. It takes us to speak for them. I tried to speak for this dog and just like what some of my patients experience, negative assumptions were made.

Honest to God, it is just such a shame.

[Pike]

This thread has run it's course and will now be closed. Please do not reopen this topic in another thread.