Thank you and sorry

[Freyja]

I wanted to thank everyone on this forum for their amazing support. I am going to take Lindy back to Cochrane tomorrow. I can't do this. She needs way more than I have to give. She needs someone with more experience, time and patience. Midwives don't make very good dog owners. I miss my cat and wanted a companion. My kids wanted a dog. I made a horrible mistake. I tried. I wish that they had done a conditional adoption like the Meow Foundation does. She is really a sweet dog. I am sorry. It is going to be awful tomorrow but I cannot go on like this.
Thanks again. I feel like I have let you down as well as myself and Lindy.
Jane

[jindo4life]

.. good choice if you thought it was for the animals need. Im very happy u thought about the animal first !! Maybe you should give it some more time.. Jin is a struggle but I know with time patience questions it will come thorugh and he will be a super duper doggie

[Luba]

WAIT Jane

Just give me a moment please!

Every shelter/rescue dog has a neurotic and rocky start when they're first placed in their new homes.

Call Cochrane and explain the situation and ask for some 'assistance' in the way of training and such.

Please give Lindy another chance, please! Everyone who has ever rescued (speak up now pls) will tell you how difficult it is in the beginning.

I know how hard it is trust me I HAVE been there MORE then once!!!

How many days has she been with you now?

Pls just don't take her back like that right now. You have been making progress, you have!! Just think if you take her back, the next home she goes to (if she gets that far and isn't PTS) it will take her even LONGER to try to trust, and her issues would end up being worse then they are now. She'll be returned again and again.

I'm not trying to guilt you, just asking for you to give her more time and get some HELP.

The shelter has run into this before, ask them for help AND ask for local help from pet stores, get a trainer. Work with someone! There may be a rescue near you that can even help you.

There still are some options, the biggest being time and patience.

I know you have patience because you work as a midwife and I know you have heart, strength and can do this!!

(((BIG HUGS)))

Just give some thought, and try to get some help before you return her to the shelter.

[jindo4life]

lol luba ur so awesome ..so are you freyja

[Freyja]

It will be one week tomorrow.
Here are my issues
1) the house training. It is semi-fine to try now because it is nice outside however I don't have a regular schedule. I lie awake at night in fear of getting paged to a birth. Lindy slept inside in her crate last night. I was able to let her outside this morning but if I had been called to a birth and not gotten home until??? then what?
2) okay, so she could be an outside dog. I could get a run, dog house blah blah BUT is that really fair? Pack thing, trust thing and all
3) the biting is getting worse, she really got me good when I statued last time
I am afraid for my timid daughter
4) I am coming up in welts from where she is biting, I am mildly allergic to dogs and have been asthma free for two years, I started wheezing again last night even after a bath cause I was covered in Lindy goo.
5) she is young and smart and loving, very trainable. The shelter is "no-kill"

[Lucky Rescue]

Every feral cat or kitten cringing and hissing in a trap, and also the dog I told you about - who was terrified of TREES - made me want to give up on all of them after ONE DAY.

Yes, they were (and are) a lot of work, a lot of frustration and I have often felt totally overwhelmed and not capable of helping these animals or doing right by them. But since none of them had any other place to turn, except to be gassed in a shelter, I hung in there and made it work. We all learned together, and now I'm so happy I didn't give up on them. It will get better!

Lindy doesn't have many options. Would you be willing to work with someone who can help you deal with this problem? I really think you need help with this,and at least that way you can say you gave it your best shot.

Or keep her for now and get someone to help you work with her to make her more adoptable and then you can find her the home she needs. This way she will at least have a chance at life and a chance to learn that life isn't only misery, hunger and suffering.

[Luba]

So far in a mere week what HAVE you accomplished?

I know you have...so lets look at the positives.

And you've been doing this w/o a trainer. Lets get her some obedience training, and give her that option. I think she deserves some professional assistance first don't you?

So the nipping, is this inside/outside the house. Is she tied/untied when she nips?

[Freyja]

Nipping, both inside and outside, when excited, untied. Worked with lemon juice today, playing with a ball. Praise when playing well, lemon hand when going to nip. She went ballistic at one point and went tearing around the yard, dashing up to me, trying to nip my ankles, I gave her the lemon hand and she flew around again, into the sand box and started digging to China!!
I have accomplished alot. I am very happy about that, I am completely new at this dog thing
She can:
sit
stay (for about 5 seconds but hey)
lie down
walk on leash
let me brush her
play catch
starting to come when called

Oh, by the way, she escaped from the yard about 20 mins before I got home from an eight hour clinic day. I ran around the neighborhood "Have you seen my dog?" Ten minutes later who should come trotting up beside me? I don't know how she got out of the yard, either she managed to open the gate or someone came into the yard.

I know I need help. But what are my expectations at the other end. What is going to be best for her? To live with me? Not sure when I am coming home, living mostly outside? Or downstairs cause of the pet hair/allergy issue? I would be willing to help her become more "adoptable" but I will become more attached to her. My kids only spent two days with her before leaving for Ontario.

[LavenderRott]

It takes some dogs quite sometime to settle down after having been adopted.

Here is an idea. Build that run and put a nice dog house in it. When you are not home, or asleep, put the dog in the run instead of a crate. That way if you are called away, you don't have to worry about leaving the dog.

There is no time limit on "consistant" or "persistant". These are words that can work around your schedule, so long as they are always used when you are there.

You must do what is best for you and your dog. But please remember, this dog has never seen the inside of a house until a week ago. Of course it is going to take some time to learn how to behave. Just like a kid.

[glasslass]

Please don't give up on her! You have a few hurdles to overcome, but with the right guidance, you can do it. I feel you're frustrated right now and doubting your abilities, but her problems will just be compounded. Give yourselves a little more time, please. The reward is really worth the time and effort.

[Lucky Rescue]

Not sure when I am coming home, living mostly outside? Or downstairs cause of the pet hair/allergy issue?

The hair/allergy thing, plus your erratic and often long hours away from home would be a problem with any dog you got, so I'm wondering why you got a dog.

NOT being critical, just really wondering...

[Cactus Flower]

Ah geez.
I understand what all of you are saying, but I've got to admit that if I had small children in the house, and I got a dog with a serious nipping problem- leaving bruises, etc, to the point that I am afraid for my kids- I would rehome the dog. Yes, even after just a week. This woman is afraid of her kids getting bitten and I can't blame her for that at all. If you were standing in front of me, naming the reasons why I should keep her and get a trainer, etc., I would still have to put my kids' safety first. Better than learning the hard way that the dog might be a danger to them. She's also said she can't be around to supervise, further increasing the risk to the kids.
I think she is one of many people who miss a pet and quickly get in over their heads trying to replace it. She has the guts and honesty to admit she made a compulsive mistake. She therefore will not become one of those people we end up saying "WELL WHY DID YOU GET A DOG IN THE FIRST PLACE IF YOU COULDN'T TAKE CARE OF IT" to.

If you could find this dog a suitable permanent loving home, that would be great.

Could any of us help her with that?

[Cactus Flower]

Originally Posted by Cactus Flower

She therefore will not become one of those people we end up saying "WELL WHY DID YOU GET A DOG IN THE FIRST PLACE IF YOU COULDN'T TAKE CARE OF IT" to.

lol- too late!

[Lucky Rescue]

Didn't Freyja just say that her kids are gone to Ontario? Don't know for how long...

I just have to say that the shelter did a very irresponsible thing giving this dog to someone who never had a dog before, let alone an unsocialized dog with issues like this one.

[Luba]

She can:
sit
stay (for about 5 seconds but hey)
lie down
walk on leash
let me brush her
play catch
starting to come when called


WOW you accomplished ALL that in ONE week (hats off to you girl, you've done GREAT)

AND she will let you bring her in the house too!! AND she knew to COME BACK to you after she took off!! Most people that have dogs for years will tell you they run the other way when they get caught after they took off!!

This dog is trusting you and starting to warm up to you, I can see it from what you say.

Look, Sadie my collie x does the exact same thing...running her head off barking like mad then jumpin on me or nipping at me. ANYTHING other then igoring it will encourage it ANYTHING..including the lemon squirting.

Some dogs will get that but herding dogs see it as a challenge. You're a sheep/cow that doesn't want to go in the barn LMFHO!!

It's mostly through excitement I find. Get a really really fun toy and when you go out with her throw it so she goes after it, when she starts to run back to you have another toy in your hand and show it to her...throw it so she goes after it. Tire her out that way, then when you want to pet her she'll be calm enough through sheer fatigue that she won't nip.

It will eventually slowly go away but occassionally she may still nip, it's the herding thing in her. I bet she has collie in her I can almost guarantee it!

The more you do to emphasize she's doing something wrong with the nipping the more she will nip. And remember I said don't look her in the eyes if she's in this mode, you'll begin to sense when you go out to her....that she's in that realm and you can ignore it before it even begins or get her mind on something else.

She's probably never had the opportunity to express herself in many ways. She may have been tied up for a very long time or caged so that she couldn't run and play.

Do you have any neighbours with dogs? Have you tried to see if she gets along with them? If so, a good play session with another dog will also help her socially.

[Cactus Flower]

Originally Posted by LuckyRescue

Didn't Freyja just say that her kids are gone to Ontario?

Yep. But that wasn't there when I was writing my reply to her post LOL.
When I "submitted" my reply, there were two new postings, one of which was hers.

Which brings to question.........are the kids there or not? Are you afraid for the kids......or not?

Luba, you're very cool to point out what she has accomplished with this pooch.

In the end, if she truly doesn't want the dog (for whatever reason) I still thinks it would be best for the dog to be in a loving, dedicated home.

[Freyja]

My kids are in Ontario with their dad for two weeks holiday. They will be back.
Lindy is approx. 10 mos old. Shepherd x. She comes to the top of my knee when she is sitting, so she is not that big.
Why did I get her in the first place? Cause I have always had a pet. 19 years with one cat, 19 years with another cat. Had two cats at the same time as the last 19 year cat that died of illnesses (curse antifreeze!!). I love to be outside, I love to walk. You cannot really walk a cat. My son really wanted a dog. I thought I could incorp a dog into my life. I read and read and read some more. Maybe I had romantic notions of a dog lying at my feet. I know people who work all day and have active, well adjusted dogs in their lives. I did not want to get a breeder puppy, I wanted to save a life. I saw Lindy at the shelter, she did not bark, she wagged her whole butt when we said hi.
sigh

[Luba]

Freyja she's still young and you can do a LOT with her!!

You just have to give her time She WILL be that loving devoted dog, she's had one hell of a ruff start to life, and you are the only love she's seen.

This little monkey is a handful for me as well but she's 8mons old almost.
I wish you lived near me, I'd help you out as much as I could because I have faith in you and in Lindy!

[Cinnabear]

just a young pup. It's going to take awhile to train her. Take her to behavioral classes. Her nipping is going to be hurt because she has puppy teeth. Are you using a crate for her? She is testing her limits now. I would give it more than a week to have her at my home. She is going to be a puppy for at least another year.

Did you honestly researched what you wanted in a dog? ie allergies, puppy or older dog, how much time you have to give to train it and love it. You can go to library and get books to help you adjust to the puppy and help with the training too.

[glasslass]

Freyja, I understand about the allergies too. I have had problems with that myself. Give it a chance. When you're stressed or upset, the allergies kick in. Take it easy and don't expect things to happen immediately. This dog needs love and understanding and so do you. You can get thru this together if you both give each other a chance. When I was sitting up one night feeling claustrophobic because I was unable to breathe without wheezing, my cat climbed into my lap and started purring. As I stroked her, it got easier to breathe and I was able to fall asleep. You and I know that cat fur is much more allergenic than dog fur. The stress factor is a biggie. Allow yourself to relax and see the small successes that will eventually add up to a wonderful bond between you.

[Iggette]

Hello Freyja
I missed your earlier post, but caught this one..........
Here is a pic of my handful Buddy rescued from Barrie SPCA and also a sheppard mix...he is now 12 months old I got him when he was 9 months old and look at the size.

In his first 2 weeks here we had a training issue he peed and popped in my bedroom could seem to get it right so frustrating but I tried to remind myself that it would take time after all he spent almost a month in a cage, left to poop and pee where he stood, after 2 weeks of cleaning my carpet at last he slowly got it right.

I too was very worried that I had made the wrong choice in adopting this dog he was so hyper and Buddy to had a nipping problem, he would nip all the time when walking, playing or even just sitting He just wanted to play cause he was still a puppy but it hurt none the less

I realized through info I had read that he had probably not been socialized with other dogs as that is apparently how they learn not to nip so hard during play because the other dog tells them they are biting to hard.

So I tried it.....had a family member bring their dog over to play with Buddy they played for ages and I could tell that CJ (the other dog) was teaching him because she growled at him during play but they kept going at it.

This sounds crazy but it worked Buddy no longer jumps up to nip you on the butt anymore and I make sure at least once a week he has a pal to play with because thats all he really wanted was someone to play with.

Your other issue about him being in the yard.........well I felt the same as you don't like to chain my pal up wasn't my idea of having a dog, but I soon realized that yes there are some dogs that need this. If Buddy isn't out for a walk, in a car ride or lounging on the couch ......he is on his chain by his dog house, he likes it there, and is quite content, he enjoys the outside and will scratch the door to get out and then lead you to his house, I guess he to likes the fresh air even though it may be to hot for me and I prefer to stay indoors when it gets like that , he is the opposite his doggy house is under a big tree so lots of shade and fresh water and he's happy and content to listen to the birds.

So 3 months later I am more at ease with Buddy and his ways and he is still learning our ways.

Being a dog owner with a dog such as ours is quite trying on the patience and makes you wonder "why did I do this". I think you did it for the same reasons as myself..........A companion......and that they will be when all lessons are learned and they grow with you.

as a Midwife think of it this way................ A woman gets pregnant, not all women like the process of being pregnant ( I for one hated it) after nine months of cramps, bad moods, weight gain, morning sickness that lasted all day, I wondered what the heck was I thinking!!!!! But after all the hard part was over and done with..........you guessed it a beautiful baby and isn't it funny how these same women (myself included) will go and do all that crappy stuff for nine months all over again Because all the pain and misserable days were well worth it in the end.

Hope you decide to keep your puppy and give him a chance in your forever home his nipping may very well mean he just needs a playmate maybe you could arrange to have a friend or family member come over to play with your puppy.

Hope things work out for you

[chico2]

I am not a dog-owner,as everyone knows but when my little Vinnie ended up in my 2-cat formerly peaceful home,I like you almost was ready to give up.
I believed my other cats would never accept the little one,the hissing,growling and sometimes fighting made me a nervous wreck and I did not think I could deal with it anymore.
I in tears,at one point called my friends who found him to come and get him,but the morning after decided there is no way I can give this kitten to an uncertain future,maybe even euthaniza(SP?).
Well,eventually things calmed down,Vinnie is now,although still a little devilish,very much part of my cat-family and I am happy I did not give up on him.
I realize there is a difference between a hissing cat and a nipping dog,but please give her a chance,you don't know what her background is,maybe a hand lifted to pet,to her means she will be slapped.
I also believe a dog/cat whatever needs time and lots of loving to overcome any fears and insecurities especially coming from a shelter.
Here's my baby a day after he was found...he's now 2yrs old.

[Catt31]

Oh Jane, PLEASE please please don't take her back!!! You've done so many good things for her and she truly is coming around!! Your list of accomplishments is BIGGER than your list of bad things, focus on that!!! I strongly urge you to call Jennifer at Dog Gone Crazy....I KNOW she will be able to help just over the phone.

Brick is a rescue dog and we've had our ups and downs. It was trying and some days, still can be!! Many days I wanted to give up, throw in the towel, but then I would come here and look at all the posts about where the dogs end up after being in a shelter/rescue for too long. It broke my heart and I couldn't do it!!

I'm no expert at training, but I've learned a few things in the past 5 months with Brick, and maybe with the two of us, we can get Lindy on track!! Would you like to get together for a coffee and just chat, maybe I could meet Lindy and try to help?? I will do whatever I can........maybe get her and Brick to play! What area of the city are you in?? Please Jane, we can do this, you have a TON of support!!!

[CityLimits]

Freyja,

You have gotten some great ideas/advice from previous posts if you are willing to give your pup another chance.

I have adopted 4 shelter dogs in the last 3 years and let me tell you each one was quite a handful for the first little while.

Each one had to be housed trained and the time it took varied from a few weeks to 3 MONTHS!! Each time my husband and I looked at each other and wondered what the heck we were thinking getting another dog. But it eventually gets better and better and now we don't know what we would do without them.

Another option if you need to keep your dog outside is invisible fencing. We put it in because we live right on a busy highway and standard fencing wasn't an option for us. All our dogs are trained on it and have never crossed the line - even when temped by other dogs, bikes, kids, squirrels etc. As long as your dog has water, shade & shelter they can be very happy outside.

Obedience class is a great idea for you and your dog. They will be able to give you some ideas on how to minimize the nipping. The suggestion about giving your dog a lot of exercise is a good one. A tired dog is a happy dog and is less likely to get into trouble.

Hopefully you will give your dog another chance. Speaking from experience, rescue dogs are well worth it once you get past the adjustment stage.

Take care

[Luba]

Take her to behavioral classes. Her nipping is going to be hurt because she has puppy teeth.

WRONG this 10 month old dog would now have its full set of adult teeth. BUT obedience class is a great idea suggested many times.

Nipping hurts because it's nipping ...but like I said you ignore and divert the behaviour to something else..a toy.

AND this dog needs to socialize with other dogs, someone else here mentioned that as well.

This WILL work out!!


CATT you live near her, is there someone you can recommend or do you know of a doggie park where she can take Lindy to? Anything for her to get some socialization in?

Another option if you need to keep your dog outside is invisible fencing.

Invisible fencing does not stop another animal/person/child coming on your property and is a huge liability. Not to mention the dogs that have been injured from the collars.

[sammiec]

Originally Posted by CityLimits

Freyja,

Another option if you need to keep your dog outside is invisible fencing. We put it in because we live right on a busy highway and standard fencing wasn't an option for us. All our dogs are trained on it and have never crossed the line - even when temped by other dogs, bikes, kids, squirrels etc. As long as your dog has water, shade & shelter they can be very happy outside.

This is NOT a good option for all dogs! Dogs with lots of hair - Huskies, or high pain tolerance - Pit Bulls will go through the fence!! Your dogs are pretty good to not attempt leaving after anything! My pooch, first bike or rabbit she saw GONE!!! and those Huskies and bunnies, bad combination too!

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the electrical invisible fence gives a shock when they go through the fence... I wouldn't suggest that method for this dog as we are not sure of it's backgroud - this could do more harm then good. Mind you, I ' don't think I'd suggest it for any dog IMHO...

[Luba]

You're right Sammie!

It's dangerous to the dog and anyone else that comes near the property

AND if the dog does get outside of the fencing it may be too afriad to return. It can turn dogs neurotic and scared.

I would NEVER recommend it!! It's unsafe for many many reasons. Yet the companies that put it it claim how safe it is.

[heidiho]

If you are gonna decide to keep the dog and just have it mainly stay outside,i say re-home him now................

[Luba]

Heidi the main reason for the pup being outside is because of lack of social and obedience skills. This will improve with time! Lindy has been making a heck of a lot of progress and she should be praised for the love she is showing and giving back.

[sammiec]

I think it's kinda barbaric! That's just me though! I've see people resort to shaving the dogs neck where the electronic box goes so they will get a "good" shock!!

That's very true about people and other animals on the property - didn't think about that part. OR the dog being afraid to go back in the yard once the escaped.

PS> Lub's, I saw your post about teathering dogs - very good information!! To tell you the truth I never thought about the damage a dog could do it it's self just trying to break free. Poor buggers. Briggs is only ever tied when she is supervised and surprisingly enough, she's not much of a puller. I think she's been tied MAYBE 3 times in her life and I am always there.

I guess that's the good thing about an apartment, I don't have the "convience" of teathering my dog outside.