#1
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aggressive behaviour in german sheperds
Have a 19 month old male german sheperd who is starting to show signs of agressiveness. He is not fixed and have completed 3 classes of obedience and couple of classes of flyball/agility for socializing purposes. When people come to visit, we put him in a sit and wait till our guest get settle, then we relase him, they go to pet him and he'll give a low growl or actually bark and be more agressive towards them. these people are not strangers and he has known them since he was 8 weeks old when we got him. He has the same action when he meets people on our walks when they want ot stop and pet him. He has just stared to act this way towards the trainers and the groomer who, would handle him touch him all the time. We had him checked out by the vet, he doesn't really know why he is acting this way (could possibly be the second stage of maturation) recommends getting him fixed, it might/or might not stop his agressiveness.
Is this a phase in his growing up and would pass (which I was told) or should I proceed to get him fixed?? Note: he was attacked by another dog and injured when he was about 9 months old. thanks |
#2
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Where are you located? Tenderfoot is the best one to answer this..
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If you are wondering if your dog can count, hide three cookies in your hand--and give him two!! |
#3
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I've read most bites come from adult intact males, so I would certainly get him neutered to start with.
You really need to get a behaviorist to come to your home and see exactly what is going on and what is motivating the aggression - fear, protectiveness, offensive/defensive or just unstable temperament caused by bad breeding - who knows. You need a professional for this, as aggression handled the wrong way can certainly make it worse. We really can't advise on this issue over the net, it's too dangerous to do so. In the meantime, keep everyone (including your dog) safe by NOT allowing strangers to pet him outside, and keep him safely away from your guests if there is a chance he may bite. Good luck and keep us up! |
#4
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Some dogs do not like being handled by strangers, so I wouldn't let complete strangers just come up and pet him. Some dogs simply don't like this, and shouldn't be forced into it IMHO. However he shouldn't ever bark or growl! It's up to you to protect him from being stressed, and other people from being alarmed or hurt by your dog.
Neutering probably will not make a big difference in how he acts with humans, but he's done with the bulk of his growing, so you should neuter him now anyhow. How does he do around other dogs in agility & flyball as an intact teenage male? Usually dogs have to be really sociable to do those sports, especially flyball! IMHO you need to consult with your trainers and probably increase the amount of obedience work you're doing with him. He's making up his own rules and disregarding your status as the head of the family in his interactions with other people. So working more with him in that regard should prove really helpful. It's been my experience that some large breed dogs do go through a number of these assertive sateges as they mature, right up to 2-3 years of age. Especially if they were neutered late.
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Carina Cooper The WonderDog Daphne The Destructo-Rott |
#5
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agressive behaviour in german sheperd
My dog is really socialable around other dogs, he's been like that since the beginning. I don't let strangers handle him, but if they do ask to pet him, I won't let them. When we do meet strangers, I put him in a sit, but if they approach, he gives a low growl.
Thanks |
#6
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He needs to be neutered and to have behavioural training to curb his need to be in charge. Basically that's what he's doing when he growls....he's taking charge and letting the others know to heed him, not you.
My princess is also a GSD, but she knows her place. I'm the head of the pack and the most she'll do when she sees a stranger is to want to be petted. If she's in her yard, though, she'll bark with her hackles up, until I allow the person in. That's normal. Seek better training. Nip it in the bud now or it'll be a huge problem later on.
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"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else." - Judy Garland |
#7
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I would definitely consider a behaviourist they could better assess the dog in its own enviroment. I would also neuter him one less chance of testicular cancer quite common among unneutered males.
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Robin A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues. R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever. Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog |
#8
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Have to add my thoughts ,like they said PLEASE GET IT FIXED NOW, i HAD gsd that started with just little signs of aggression which started to lead to him at the top of the ored and i could not get it back to me being top dog,If you have the finances to do so i would ASAP.....................................
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#9
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OOps spelled that wrong,order..
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#10
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I would like to think everyone for their input. this was my first time to this bulletin board.
I have consulted with an animal behaviourist, and from what I told him, sound like it is a generic dominant disorder. Arranging to meet with him this weekend. thanks again |
#11
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What is Generic dominant disorder??
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#12
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If you do not neuter him, you're dealing with a ticking bomb. Male dogs, unaltered, are highly hormone driven. If he's already showing aggressive tendancies, then neutering him will aid in behavioral training.
Male dogs, unlike females, are more prone to aggression when left in an unaltered state.
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I'm firm - but fair. Mind the rules and enjoy your stay. According to the Humane Society of the United States: There are an estimated 3-4 million dogs and cats euthanized each year in the US alone! PLEASE - spay and/or neuter your pets! |
#13
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Quote:
This is another reason to have him neutered. If some puppy mill were get to get their hands on him, there would be an explosion of GSD's with aggressions - resulting in an increase in GSD related attacks - resulting in a possible BSL against GSDs.
__________________
I'm firm - but fair. Mind the rules and enjoy your stay. According to the Humane Society of the United States: There are an estimated 3-4 million dogs and cats euthanized each year in the US alone! PLEASE - spay and/or neuter your pets! |
#14
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Nothing wrong with dominance. That is not necessarily a "disorder." Some dogs are more dominant than others, is all. If the dog had underlying aggressive issues, being intact, he would be aggressive towards other dogs. According to the OP, this is not the case, so I don't see any "disorder" here. My guess is still the dog simply needs to have his training and obedience work intensified a bit. This doesn't sound like a "disorder", it sounds like a normal teenage working breed dog who simply needs remedial training. What you've described doesn't sound that difficult to deal with, and very common. In case it's not clear, I am not comfortable with this whole disorder thing. It sounds bogus to me. Genetic or generic, whichever.
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Carina Cooper The WonderDog Daphne The Destructo-Rott |
#15
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We're all entitled to our opinions, and if you think genetic disorders can't cause the problems this dog is having, that's your opinion. Phew - I think I got carpel-tunnel! (sp?)
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I'm firm - but fair. Mind the rules and enjoy your stay. According to the Humane Society of the United States: There are an estimated 3-4 million dogs and cats euthanized each year in the US alone! PLEASE - spay and/or neuter your pets! |
#16
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Yeah i know what genetic is,but it said generic,so i wasnt sure never heard of that,,
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#17
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LOL Trinitie, sorry about the carpal tunnel!
I'm not saying I doubt there is a genetic component to various behaviours, of course there is. All behaviour is in part genetic. And yes, there are such disorders as rage syndrome, overly aggressive dogs, etc. The reason I am saying I do not think it's the case in this case is, 1: The dog is apparently fine with other dogs. If this dog had somne "aggression" syndrome, no way would it - as an intact young male dog - be sociable enough to participate in flyball and agility, for goodness sake! Non-aggressiveness towards other dogs is mandatory for flyball. Neutering is a good idea sure, but I doubt it has much to do with the dog's behaviour towards people. 2: This is a common problem with some breeds and the issue is virtually always a matter of training, rarely some disorder. If that were the case, then over half of the independent working breeds on the planet would have the same disorder. Including a couple I have owned, and who were easily taught to mind thier manners. The OP can't handle the dog, that is why he is asking this question, and why he's seeing a behaviourist! The dog is taking matters into his own hands because he does not have sufficient respect for his handler. This is why my suggestion was increase training, with the help of someone knowlegable. Anyhow, I stand firm on my opinion here - I am 99% sure I am correct in my assessment, given the info provided - so we can respectfully agree to disagree. Or, it comes down to semantics - what some are calling a "genetic disorder" I would more likely call a "genetic disposition" - certainly not a disorder, which means an abnormality, loosely speaking. Retrievers are genetically predisposed to chase tennis balls, Terriers dig, sighthounds chase - those are not disorders, they are dispositions, and easily managed. Note. A more likely somatic cause would be thyroid or adrenal disorder. Dr Jean Dodds is conducting a longitudinal study on this now; my vet has several dogs in his practice who are "test" subjects for the study. It's also probably not the case that the dog "suddenly" started acting this way. I'm sure there were signs that weren't picked up on for some time.
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Carina Cooper The WonderDog Daphne The Destructo-Rott |
#18
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There are far more knowledgable people than I in the world. It appears you have more experience with dogs, and I respect that.
I know less about dogs than most people here, I'm sure. I thought you were saying your didn't believe in genetic disorders, not that you didn't think this was one. I know when to stay out of the discussion, especially when I need to ice my wrists. I'd like to suggest, however, that the OP should DEFINATELY neuter the dog. It will make training much easier in the long run, whether the dog has temperment problems or not. A male dog, with too many hormones, is an accident waiting to happen, especially if there's a dominance issue.
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I'm firm - but fair. Mind the rules and enjoy your stay. According to the Humane Society of the United States: There are an estimated 3-4 million dogs and cats euthanized each year in the US alone! PLEASE - spay and/or neuter your pets! |
#19
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Quote:
oh yeah on the neutering thing....he's old enough now.
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Carina Cooper The WonderDog Daphne The Destructo-Rott |
#20
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I am just wondering about the behaviourist, seems strange to me that they would give an assessment over the phone/e-mail without seeing the dog, even just guessing it..there could be many different reasons why this dog is acting this way, no way to tell for sure until they see this dog in person with the handler. Unless this is comman practise? I haven't dealt with many trainers..just a few, but none of them would say anything until they saw the dog.
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#21
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Barking, growling or threatening people for no reason is NOT a sign of a dominant personality. In fact, truly dominant dogs are so confident they feel no need to put up an aggressive display. This is fear and/or outright aggression. I would not consult with this trainer or behaviorist!! |
#22
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Did you not say that the dog reacts to people approacing you, is it not trying to protect you? I had a shepperd cross Bernese and it was ok for kids to come up to us but adults was another thing especially men, so I never let men come and try to stroke him, in his 9+ years he never bit anyone but he would get upset when adults approaced us on walks.
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A man who looks into a collie's eye to receive an icy stare is but a fool. Be at one with man's best friend and through his eyes you will see his very soul. |
#23
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My pointer enters a trance (points) when it smells a game bird and it's near impossible to get her to snap out of it. And she will fetch/retrieve anything/anywhere for hours on end if allowed. Sounds like she's got obsessive-compulsive disorder, maybe a mild case of autism. I'd better get her to the therapist to get her past this irrational behaviour. Much more likely is fear. One thing that caught my attention is the ritual with visitors in the house. It all sounds good until you let the visitors approach the dog. WRONG way 'round. Go about having your tea, see to it your guests have doggy treats close at hand. Let the dog approach them on his terms, when the fear/stress level has naturally lowered. He may never be thrilled with other people around, let him keep his distance and chances are he'll never be aggressive.
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Humans have televisions. Pointers have birdfeeders. |
#24
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Oh, and I forgot to reinforce....
Get the dog fixed.
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Humans have televisions. Pointers have birdfeeders. |
#25
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[QUOTE=auggie]Have a 19 month old male german sheperd who is starting to show signs of agressiveness. He is not fixed and have completed 3 classes of obedience and couple of classes of flyball/agility for socializing purposes.
I have a male aussie who is just like that, I refuse to let it go as I need to be able to trust my dogs to a certain extent, what fun is it if you have to keep running away from people. My guy will growl at anyone that appoaches me, but I am very aware of my surroundings and always have complete control of his leash. I have stopped people neighbours, strangers etc........asked them to give my dog a treat, call his name and so on. I don't let a growl go unoticed and I correct him and tell him to be quiet. I don't encourage it by petting him and telling him its o.k. To date he knows when I stop he is to sit, if I feel that he is going to growl I tell him quiet...happy to report he is doing very well. Now if you came into my home thats a different story.but were working on it. And he is neutured!
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Paw prints and nose smudges on glass doors and windows break up glare and soften the light in a room. |
#26
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It is unlikely that neutering him will have any effect on aggression. A stable nerved , well trained dog neutered or not should never exibit this behaviour. It is actually your decision as the ALPHA how this dog should behave. I would not tolerate this behaviour at all. Would I correct this unwarranted aggression? Yes I would. I would also muzzle this dog while I was training him. It seems to me that this is a handler issue that can be solved with consistent obedience training. You can try to neuter him but without training I highly doubt you will see any change. Whether this issue is related to hormones or not it should not be accepted. It will not pass on it's own.
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#27
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Neutering the dog will help calm him somewhat. We're not saying to "not" train him, but neutering, in conjunction with training, is what this dog needs.
__________________
I'm firm - but fair. Mind the rules and enjoy your stay. According to the Humane Society of the United States: There are an estimated 3-4 million dogs and cats euthanized each year in the US alone! PLEASE - spay and/or neuter your pets! |
#28
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I would say focus on training/spend your $$ on that and THEN decide if you need to neuter. Neuter is not a NEED to do but a NICE to do. That is unless you a concerned about roaming. The "calming" effect of neutering is not present with all breed's of dogs, it calms some but not others. My male is 2 yrs old, intact and has high drives to work. He also is "trained" when to turn it off and settle down.
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#29
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Statistics prove that an intact male is 3 times more likely to bite than a castrated male. Hormones do have a serious effect in this issue. Testosterone causes aggression. It may not be the only cause of the aggression but the only way to rule it out is by castration.
I hate the use of the word "calm" for the effect of castration. I prefer to say that a dog that is not castrated is constantly stressed, searching constantly for territory and marking territory in hopes of attracting a mate and any female that walks through his territory is fair game, and castration removes that stressful, compulsive, physiologically driven aspect of his life. It doesn't affect his stamina, his energy level, or his desire to play, if he had it before. It will make him more sociable if it is done early enough. I feel to castrate is a need. Dogs that are castrated are totally different in all the good ways, and unless you plan to breed, there is no good reason to keep him intact. |
#30
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By the way, I have been looking at studies about dog aggression and genetics and the most comprehensive study was done in 1962 and it is seriously flawed. It is hard to say whether the aggression is passed through chromosomes or within the first few weeks of life. If you take an aggressive mom and allow her to raise puppies, chances are they will be aggressive regardless of their genetics. Everybody says that aggression can be inherited but the actual mechanism of acquiring aggression is not known.
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