Help Make it Easier

[Bailey_]

As some of you know I decided to switch my pets onto a RAW diet a few weeks ago, (somewhere around the same time that I decided to stop eating meat myself, go figure) and I am having a bit of a "situation".

I haven't put my dogs or cats on RAW because I am stumped. I've done so much reading, on this site, and other sites about starting the process from kibble to RAW and to put it bluntly, I'm overwhelmed. Not to mention that I'm a bit 'nervous' about scouring the meat section now that I am trying to stay away from it.

I've decided that I need help. I know this may sound crazy, but I just need someone to tell me what to buy, what to feed, when to feed, how much to feed each meal, and when to start introducing new meats, etc; so that I don't end up standing in the meat section at the grocery store for fifteen minutes and end up buying a few steaks for myself. I think part of the reason I'm so weighed down by doing this change is because we have different animals and some are older, some are young. Obviously some weigh more than others. Daunting task, trying to do all the math in my head, at least it is to me.

Should I put all my animals on RAW at once, or should I start with the cats vs the dogs?

Thanks everyone in advance. This is certainly a new step for our family, and we want to do it right...and painlessly as possible!

[aslan]

Bailey best suggestion i can give you is pm either Luckypenny or Bendyfoot. They feed raw and have excellent advice. Mine i switched one dog before the other as the one wouldn't eat kibble period. Then the big guy decided he liked raw too. The others can give you better detail on %'s of meat over organ and bone and how much per body weight.

[Bailey_]

Thanks Aslan, I will do that. This process has been taking a lot longer than I wanted, only because it seems like it's been a whole lot easier to buy the kibble instead of just figuring it out once and for all.

[sugarcatmom]

For the cats, I would recommend you start by offering just some pieces of fresh raw chicken thigh or breast as a treat and see how they take to it. The kittens will likely devour it, may take a little longer with the older one. If they don't go for raw right away, try lightly boiling or broiling it first, then gradually less and less. Once they're cool with raw muscle meat as a treat, you can try an entire balanced raw meal, and for that I would check out Tailblazers, which has a great selection of frozen raw diets for cats (my guy loves Red Dog Deli).

If that's a success, you could make your own raw, based on a recipe such as the one found here, or go with the "whole prey" model of feeding (more on that here). Just a caution on feeding the prey model to kittens though - their teeth may be too small to handle most bones, and since an adequate amount of bone is needed for calcium intake, it may be easier to feed ground bone-in raw. Larger chunks of meat and gizzards or chicken necks can be used for the dental benefits lost by grinding the bone.

[TeriM]

Bailey, to start you might want to check out these stores http://www.tailblazerspets.com/tailblazers_contact.html . They seem to offer a very good selection of raw foods and are also probably a good source of knowledge for you. Once you feel more comfortable then you can do the supermarket thing . I actually buy most of my raw from a similar store in North Vancouver as I like the convenience and selection and have found that most of our local grocery stores are a very expensive option. My cats in particular like particular products more then others .

[Macomom]

Our RAW Diet Journey

Caveat: This works for me. I am no expert on RAW, I just wanted to share my experience since I found the first couple of weeks quite daunting as well. Please offer constructive criticism if I could be doing something better or have an area to improve on.

Members of my Household:

Boswell , 2.5 years
• Neutered Dogue De Bordeaux
• 105 pounds
• No health concerns
Darby, 15 months
• Spayed Rottweiller
• 70 pounds
• No health concerns


My prep equipment:
Cutting board
Vinegar solution, full strength
Hydrogen Peroxide, diluted 50%
Designated space in the fridge for RAW diet, lined with absorbent material

Starting the Process:

I started by feeding my pack a tiny amount of raw fruits and veggies for a few weeks first as treats or before and after meals. Then one day I simply switched to feeding RAW meat exclusively. I think I tried feeding them fruits and veggiesas an emotional test more than anything, since I don't feed much produce now. I brought my dogs into the vet to get weighed prior, and continued to drop in for weighings every couple of weeks for the first two months.

I did no further transition since I was concerned about the kibble and the RAW meat going through digestion together. It took more time for Darby, than for Boswell. Darby seems to have preferences to texture, and to protein source. However, after several months, it simply became the feeding method and now everyone thoroughly enjoys meal times without reservation. I had no digestive complications or transition issues.

How much I feed:

2% if your dog is fat
2.5% - 3% to maintain present weight
Feed more % to fatten an underweight dog
Puppies may require up to 10% of body weight

Remember this is only a place to start, adjust everything up or down, depending on your dogs condition. A good barometer is your dog, if he/she acts hungry, add 1/2 pound.

I started at 3% body weight for my dogs and quickly realized it was too much food for us. The judgment came because of observation; they took too long to eat, seemed to lose interest, etc. I adjusted the diet plan for a 2% weight maintenance and this is a perfect amount for my dogs given our activity level, their age, lean muscle ratio and breed.

My daily feeding amount breaks down with this equation.
45% meat on bone
45-50% meat without bone
5-10% organ meat

For Boswell, 2.1 pounds (33.6 ounces) per day total or 1.05 pounds (17 ounces) for one meal.
For Darby, 1.4 pounds (22.4 ounces) per day total or 0.7 pounds (11 ounces) for one meal.

I use breakfast, where I have more time to feed and observe as the meat on bone meal, and dinner as the meat without bone, plus the organ meat.

The easiest meat to feed when I started was turkey necks. I sourced this through a local farmer and got it for 75 cents a pound in large, frozen quantities. It is easy to weigh and easy to serve and I found the dogs transitioned quickly to it. I source other meats at local butchers and have fed the dogs ground beef, ground pork, ground venison, stewing meats, chicken carcasses, green tripe and organ meats from all protein sources. I am currently researching how qualitative bear meat is.

Unlike other feeders, I don’t grind all ingredients together for my dogs. For their meat only meal, I do often serve ground meat, but organ meat is cut into pieces, or offered in large chunks. Fruit or veggies, if I include, is cut into small pieces and not ground. My dogs have big powerful jaws and are no longer small puppies though- so you may want to consider grinding as an option for the smaller cats and puppies.

I am getting resourceful and have found local farmers and hunters who are more than happy to help and sell quality local meat to my cause. I have heard of some feeders who post on Kijiji. or local websites to purchase old frozen meat at a discounted price. I take the quality of meat really seriously for my dogs, and I am not sure how much risk I would be willing to take, ie Kijiji.

In addition to the meat I feed, I do occasionally offer some berries or seasonal fruit without seeds, such as stone fruit. It is not a focus of my meal plan though, and feed it if I have it and think of it.
I supplement with a plant based acidophilus, brewer’s yeast (since these two do not have skin allergies or sensitivies), cold pressed oils and some salmon oil and a multi vitamin with vitamin E support.
Occasionally, I will give my dogs yogurt, only because they really like yogurt.
Every second day they get a full egg and the shell.

Fasting:
When I started, I fasted them one day out of every week. I have some personal reservations about a true fast, so instead I will vary the amount they eat. For instance, last night Bowell ate a full chicken carcass, cleaned and without feathers. Today, I have adjusted his food, and I will give him a little less than I would during the week.

Cleanup:
My technique is to clean my equipment with hot soap and water and then I spray and soak alternatively with vinegar and peroxide.

Additional information:
After eating my dogs maintain a period of rest. They are not allowed to go out to the yard or engage in aggressive play. I am nervous about bloat, with my two barrel chested dogs and prefer that they eat and rest for a hour afterward. This seems to work well with a RAW diet because eating has become a calmer period for us. The dogs are very excited about meal times, but eat in their kennels where they can take as much time as they need too without being disturbed by other dogs.
Additionally, I have had to hand feed my DDB when giving him anything but carcasses. This is because he can pulverize and swallow whole an enormous amount of food. He has become much better with his technique now and no longer gulps.

Hope this helps. Just my

[friend2animals]

Hi,

I too, have read all the posts regarding diet change for dogs, but I am far from clear as to how to proceed...

Many people rave about the "raw" food diet, but I need to know whether raw, or a change in dry kibble is the way to go with my (14+) senior dog. She is rapidly losing weight, and my Vet has told me that sometimes weight will fluctuate. She is currently on a reduced protein diet - although so far, there has been no indication of kidney issues(hence, the reduced protein food).
For the most part, I will take a Vets advice and recommendations to heart - and follow through. In this case, however, it doesn't feel or look right.
I suppose there might be something else going on with my dog to cause her weight loss...perhaps this food was recommended because her current meds have the potential to bring on kidney issue Alternatively, it is my understanding that muscle weighs more than fat, and she is, without a doubt, losing muscle mass.

I am quite concerned! I don't know if this is just a temporary phase, or something else...! There is nothing wrong with her appetite (she's always been a bit of a food hound). She just loves her holistic (lamb and trout +Omega 3) dog treats. Other treats and dry kibble that has been recommended has given my dog diarreah.
I haven't yet been able to get a concise answer from my Vet about my dogs food, and I am wondering whether I should consider starting my girl on a diet rich in prebiotic components. I have always given my dog healthy and appropriate food and treats. In my humble opinion, she could definitely use more protein/fat in her diet.

Any ideas will be hugely appreciated!!

Thanx everyone!

[Bailey_]

Thanks everyone for the information and links. It is EXTREMLEY appreciated.

Tonight I did as SCM suggested with the raw chicken bits to see who liked it among our cats and who didn't. Raisins ate it raw and cool, and was quickly looking for more. Teeka also ate it raw and cool, but not after picking it up - shaking it - dropping it and picking it up again. She seemed a bit weirded out by it, but ate it after a few moments. Moo on the other hand, had to have it warmed. I took her slice of chicken, put it in the fryer until one side was white and the rest was still pink and raw. She ate it quickly after this.

I haven't started the dogs yet because my oldest female is at my brothers right now, (helping out with their new young puppy) and will be coming back at the end of this week. I want to start both her and my puppy at the same time, so for now will just be gradually changing the cats over. I think once I have their routine down, I'll be more able to start the dogs.

THANKYOU everyone for all the information, and a special thanks to MacoMom for the detailed information which I desperatley needed. You guys are the best!