Dog aggression

[gossoqueen]

A couple of months back I adopted a 2 year old chocolate lab X (Jack) from a rescue. He was a stray, very skinny, the rescue suspected he was abused and he was attacked by another dog at the first foster home he was placed in. When I got him, he was covered in bite marks and scars. I have another dog, (golden retriever x), they were introduced at his second foster home and they got along swimmingly. Jack submitted to my dog. We brought Jack home the following night and while the dogs were playing with their toys, my golden walked over to Jack and Jack then lunged and attacked my dog, he drew blood. I called the rescue and they told me that they don't take dogs back and he wasn't an aggressive dog at all when they had him, and that it must have been my dog. Since this incident, things have worked out between them, and the golden seems to have rank over Jack. My golden has never had any problems with dog aggression and has been well socialized and loves playing with other dogs. About 3 weeks or so of having both dogs, I noticed Jack whimpering when he would see dogs on our walk, and my golden would start barking agressively. They both would try lunging at passing dogs. I have always walked my other dog in this neighbourhood without any problems, in fact he is well known and loved by everyone and people used to come over to let their kids and dogs play with him. Now people cross the street and give me looks of terror when they see him. I don't have much money with my partner losing his job right after we adopted Jack, but I made the decision to hire a dog trainer to deal with this under the assumption that it was my golden that was all of the sudden aggressive. I've had 8 at home lessons. We worked on remaining assertive and calm when I saw another dog. I worked on that, and for the most part did stay calm, and didn't put tension on their leashes. They still reacted aggressively. There were even instances when they were in the car and I was stopped at a light. There were people walking there dogs...I definatley didn't feel tense at those moments because I was in a vehicle but they still freaked out and I thought they were going to go through the glass window! We realized at lesson 6, that it was actually Jack that was the aggressive one and that my golden was reacting off of Jack. So lesson 7 we did a little more work with him walking on a leash and he is now wearing a training pinch collar. Lesson 8 the trainer brought over their dog to work on this. I brought Jack outside first to me the trainers dog. He growled and snarled at the trainers dog. The trainer then took both dogs and went for a short walk around the neighbourhood. The trainer told me that Jack was aggressive and would definatley bite another dog. I asked if they thought this was because of him being attacked and he would bite out of fear? The trainer told me no, that they thought it was just out of being dominant and aggressive and that they weren't sure if they could correct this with him.

I took both dogs for a walk this morning and Jack almost snapped his collar trying to get at another dog. I can manage to control the dogs and hold them, but if there is a malfunction in equipment, then I'm worried! I'm going to buy a muzzle tomorrow, which is just going to scare the neighbours even more, but I don't want to take the chance that he will bite another dog.

Jack has been through so much already. I don't want to take him to the humane society because I couldn't do anything for him. I need people to be up front and honest with me! Is it possible to teach a dog not to be aggressive towards another dog or am I wasting my time and money? I have already spent over $800 on training. I have maybe another $500-600 to invest in training. On top of that I feel my golden's quality of life now is decreased because we don't goto dog parks anymore, he doesn't socialize with other dogs now and I can't let him of leash anymore. I don't have the time to walk both by themselves in the morning before work.

If anyone has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate them. I'm desperate right now! Thank you.

[luckypenny]

Hello gossoqueen . Can I ask what methods did the trainer you hired use to address your dogs' issues? Did you notice if the aggression your dogs display remained the same, or became worse during and afterwords?

You mention that the trainer took your dogs alone...did he do this often or just that one time?

Just because a dog is dominant does not mean it is aggressive. What the trainer said to you makes no sense and worries me. Perhaps that was his explanation to cover his @ss because he lacks the expertise to help you and your dogs. I've heard these types of excuses time and time again and it enrages me .

Because Jack was, and has, already bitten, I do believe that you must consult with another behaviorist/trainer who specializes in dog aggression. But also one who uses a method different from the one this past trainer had used. 800$ in 8 sessions just to put a pinch collar on your dogs and then to tell you he can't help is a bunch of hogwash in my books. We had serious aggression issues with one of our dogs and I can tell you in all honestly, there is help if you're committed to working with your guys. If you're willing and able to continue, I'd be more than happy to help find a responsible professional in your area.

[Bailey_]

What kind of rescue wouldn't take a dog back if it was not working out in the home? I don't know of any reputable rescue that would refuse to take a dog back if it was not working with the new family.

Secondly, I hate dog parks and rarely take my dogs to any of them in the city. This is because a dog park is extremley unstructured and offers a lot of off-balance socialization for a dog. Sure, in theory it is a great place to be, but so many dogs have terrible experiences at the park because too many owners feel that this is a great form of 'excercise' for their untrained animals, instead of viewing it as a reward for their obedient ones. You will NOT be doing your dogs any harm by avoiding the dog parks, especially while training and trying to get this under control.

Third, I agree completley with LP. Find a different behaviorist, even someone that can see you for one or two sessions and set you on a good and healthy path in regards to training.

I worked on that, and for the most part did stay calm, and didn't put tension on their leashes. They still reacted aggressively.

This doesn't surprise me. Remaining calm is great, but it is not the be all or end all in regards to rehabilitating an aggressive animal. You MUST innterupt and redirect before it gets to the point of 'acting' on something, and a GOOD trainer will be able to show you how to do this and read your dogs behavior.

There were people walking there dogs...I definatley didn't feel tense at those moments because I was in a vehicle but they still freaked out and I thought they were going to go through the glass window!

Are you able to keep them in seperate kennels in your car when you travel to avoid this at this time? Or travel with one dog seperatley to avoid passing on negative energy which dogs always do to one another.

I took both dogs for a walk this morning and Jack almost snapped his collar trying to get at another dog.

So, I take it you aren't keeping the pinch collar on him anymore? What type of collar is he wearing?

And please do not continue using the pinch collar if you are. This trainer you're seeing doesn't seem to know what he's doing, therefore I doubt Jack even needs to be wearing one. A dog that shows aggression can often be made worse by putting them in these types of collars, in an attempt to 'control' the dog - so please get a second opinion.

[growler~GateKeeper]

I agree a second opinion is needed.

Originally Posted by gossoqueen

I asked if they thought this was because of him being attacked and he would bite out of fear? The trainer told me no, that they thought it was just out of being dominant and aggressive and that they weren't sure if they could correct this with him.

Several years ago I had a dog who, with his previous owners, was attacked as a puppy and after that only liked a few other dogs, he would react "aggressively" towards most other dogs when walking. I do believe most of this came as a result of being attacked & poor socialization as a puppy. He was the only dog I had at the time & so I avoided all dog parks and areas frequented by alot of dogs/dogs off leash. His reactions were more mild than your dogs (only minor barking in the car etc) and it was fairly easy to use some distractions or getting him to quickly move past the other dog.

Originally Posted by gossoqueen

Jack has been through so much already. I don't want to take him to the humane society because I couldn't do anything for him.

If you did take him to the HS/SPCA he likely would be euthanized if he displayed any of this behaviour.

[Melei'sMom]

http://www.bradpattison.com/

personally I like this guy, and he has trainers that use his methods in many places in Canada. If you get ahold of him, depending where you are, you might get his help directly.

Any trainer who says that he can not help an agressive or dominant dog is not worth paying for his lack of skills. please find a trainer who is able to help.

[Beauceron]

In almost every case aggression is a byproduct of fear. Resource guarding is common and expected in dogs. There are several books like "Mine" and "Fight" both by J.Donaldson that can help you with these problems.

Your language indicates you apply what is commonly misnamed 'dominance" training which relies on punishment. Unfortunately, neither punishment nor your 'calmness' will affect a dog already in the throes. The explanation of the trainer is not consistent with the scientific findings regarding antagonistic social interactions. For this reason, methods of Millan or Pattison's are likely to fail in addressing the underlying cause.

You can continue to use force and punishment to manage the reactions of the dog, or better yet use the well proven (but slower) methods of desensitization and counter-conditioning to help your dogs.