That's it for Matty

[puppy4ever]

Just to leave this back on topic...

I'm not sure if I have responded to you before or not....I think I've tried and by the time I'm finished, I'm logged out and my message is gone.

Anyway I can really relate to your post as I have been through hell with my puppy too. He has gotten really aggressive lately and sometimes I just see him as the devil in a fur coat!

This helps me get through the tough times...

I read somewhere that if your dog shows any aggression, it is more humane to have your dog euthanized than to rehome him as he will just get rehomed again and again (because let's face it, most people are not willing to sacrifice all their waking hours or kids safety for a dog!). So when I'm feeling so frustrated that I can't breathe, I think of writing an obituary for my guy. When I think of this usually things like this come up - "I'm sorry I wasn't able to help you through this life without fear"...then I can't even imagine why I couldn't give it another day! Sorry if this sounds morbid or cheesy...just speaking from the heart.

Good luck to you!

[Beau'sMom]

Originally Posted by phoenix

I completely agree, if he is placed properly. That is why I'm on the fence. If he ends up at the SPCA, he could be sold to the first comer if he makes it out, but a rescue will try to find someone who knows how to handle this type of dog if they can.

Oh, and Megan? If I had an emoticon hitting its head on the wall... duh I know he didn't mean funny.

A Lab rescue, like the one previously posted would be best. Just check them out if you go that route. I just learned the very hard way that not all rescue's are honest Privately a few members have been kind enough to give me referals to one's they have had good experiences with.

We had a lab/great daneX years ago who could not be crated in a metal crate either. He got his paws through and detroyed carpeting, and ate drywall. I can picture the damage you are describing. The large plastic crates may cost more $$$ but truly as previously posted worth every dime.

Good luck with Matty. Do you have someone to take him for a weekend so you can get a little Matty-free vacation to recharge your batteries?

[Mahealani770]

I also think that life with Matty is going to require him to go to a kennel or to someone for one weekend a month, just so you and your poor wife can get a break. Especially now that you're at a crossroads with this decision. Maybe you need to step back for a few days and look at the situation before you do anything drastic.
Also, you never told me if your vet has suggested medicating Matty or if you've tried it yet?
Good Luck,
Mahealani

[meb999]

Originally Posted by Prin

Honestly, I'd get a new crate... If he can still chew the outside world from inside the crate, something is wrong with the crate.

I agree 500%
Do you have a wire crate? I know ALOT of dogs that can break out of a wire crate and/or chew flooring through them. I had a wire crate, but had to throw it out (actually,m I didn't throw it out, I gave it to rescue ) because Buster would break out of it and make a mess. I agree with BoxerRescueMtl, you should get a plastic crate, the varikennel kind. There not as 'open' as the metal crate.
Give crate training another shot.

[technodoll]

if crates are the issue... you might consider getting a "gorilla crate". completely impossible to break out of, to chew up, to cause any descruction when in the crate. they're expensive but tested & approved by akita owners with big, strong, stubborn dogs!

http://www.petedge.com/jump.jsp?item...ID=2233&KICKER

[StinkyT]

I've read a lot of the discussion about Matty and have never felt the need to post as I don't have any experience with misbehaving dogs but sprayeddog, I do want to pat you on the back for your patience and hard work in this situation and all at the expense of your wife's sanity, yours and your house.

There is a high standard set by pet owners when it comes to owning and living with animals but people are not perfect and neither are animals. We try our best and sometimes the best isn't quite enough. How many times have we all endured life trials and wanted to quit? How many times have we tried to tackle some project only to fail or realize the limits of our abilities? I think you've gone so far above and beyond what most people would do for your family that I don't see how anyone could possibly paint you as a quitter or unloving person.

Most people wouldn't even make it this far in the race and I'm not saying it's a right or wrong issue because people do have their limits. When you invest so much of yourself into your pet you hope that there's some return. When there isn't it's a natural response to feel disappointed and like you've failed. I do believe that most people do start out trying their hardest and some may fail but we can't condemn them because they couldn't be the perfect pet owner. That's just how it is. If we were all perfect pet owners then perhaps we should be perfect parents too, perfect citizens and perfect spouses. And I know that we don't throw away our kids if do something wrong but people and animals are different creatures. I will be crucified for saying this, but babies become kids who eventually turn into fully functioning adults. Dogs and cats will always be just dogs and cats.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by StinkyT

but babies become kids who eventually turn into fully functioning adults.

boy do i ever disagree with this. first of all, kids do get thrown away. and secondly, they don't automatically turn into fully functioning adults- a lot of social work and money goes into dealing with this societal problem. As I said before, people view many relationships as throw away- spouse, parental, etc... it is hard to argue that pets should not be throw away too with this rampant attitude out there.

[StinkyT]

Right. I knew I should have been more specific. I meant most people don't throw away their kids. And I never said that becoming an adult was an automatic process. But admitting defeat isn't a rampant throw away attitude. This guy has obviously put in a lot of effort and time with this dog, if he's failed as a dog owner will you crucify him and force them to remain together for life even if it's a miserable existence? Yes, perhaps he made a mistake in choosing a breed but who has never made a mistake before? Like I said, people aren't perfect. We do dumb things and there are consequences we have to deal with. But there's no point in punishing him for life, it doesn't change the fact that he and Matty don't understand each other. Please don't attack him simply because you were able to deal with a difficult pet and he isn't. It doesn't mean he's not a good person.

I agree that he should give due attention to his wife. If she's mentally unwell and is depressed these are real medical problems. He needs to take care of her. Whether he sends Matty to doggy daycare or rehome, he needs to focus on her well-being.

[technodoll]

i once adopted a young dobie male from a girl who was moving and couldn't keep him anymore, she was very selective about rehoming him and we seemed like a good match (i had had two and was familiar with the breed, had the space & the time for him, etc). We got along fine for the first two meetings, and then Hell began when I took him home... he had seperation anxiety, which i was not made aware of, and I did everything I could at the time to make our "relationship" work out but... there was just NO click in personality, no bonding, only stress, frustration, and unhappiness from both sides. I had made a mistake.
So I found him a new home, with a nice couple in New Brunswick who drove all the way to Montreal to pick him up, they owned an excavation company so he went to work in the country everyday with his new dad, in the truck and all, had a girl-dobie for a neighbor, and lived the ideal, perfect life, his new family just LOVED him.
So sometimes... problems with one family doesn't mean problems with another... but you have to find that Perfect Match.

[SarahLynn123]

My opinion is a bit different. If your wife is having as serious mental problems as she is, I think you should contact a lab rescue and rehome him. If you decide to have kids in the future and the baby is screaming bloody murder all night while Matty is jumping around and chewing things, your wife's stress level will be higher then ever and Matty will have to leave then anyway to save your wife a trip to the hospital.

Im sorry, but I dont see things working out.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by StinkyT

But admitting defeat isn't a rampant throw away attitude. This guy has obviously put in a lot of effort and time with this dog, if he's failed as a dog owner will you crucify him and force them to remain together for life even if it's a miserable existence?

i agree. (as far as the rampant attitude, i was referring to society, not the poster). this is why i said i'm on the fence. on the one hand, he could be the only chance this dog has. on the other hand, maybe someone out there who will understand better will be able to be a better match.

Originally Posted by StinkyT

We do dumb things and there are consequences we have to deal with.

also agree. consequences. not throwing away. to me, that means taking responsibility for the committment (like, using a rescue, or finding the ideal home, or putting the dog in training so that it can be rehomed. Honestly, would you take Matty the way he is???? Who would want to, if they knew the whole truth?? That is what i mean by consequences. If the dog is impossible, maybe it should be euthanized (look how many labs are on petfinder who have no problems except their energy levels). If the dog is not impossible, than the owner needs to look at him/herself and why the animal has become the way he has.

Originally Posted by StinkyT

Please don't attack him simply because you were able to deal with a difficult pet and he isn't. It doesn't mean he's not a good person.

I am not attacking him. The point of telling the board about my own difficulties in pet ownership is not to 'show him up', but to let him know that others have been through the same thing and survived... and end up happy that they went through it. A good person is judged by his/her actions, not intentions. In my opinion (which you risk hearing because you post on a public board), throwing away a pet is not synonymous with 'good person'. Doing everything you can, figuring that you have neither the skills nor ability to deal with the animal, and then doing everything in your power to make sure that someone who is capable ends up helping/rescuing/etc... that would be the mark of a good person to me.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by SarahLynn123

My opinion is a bit different. If your wife is having as serious mental problems as she is, I think you should contact a lab rescue and rehome him. .

no, not a different opinion SarahLynn! I agree 100% with you.

[happycats]

I don't know about re-homing, because it's obvious that he love Matty, and wants this to work and posted out of total frustration, and for support.

I believe a pet feels what we feel, and if you and your wife are stressed, I think Matty may very well be reacting to your feelings. I thank maybe a vacation for all would be helpful, and allow you the time to re-group, and seriously think about what to do with Matty. I'm sure your wife and yourself could use a vacation, even if it's just a break from Matty.
I'm sure Matty would behave differently in a new environment.

I believe happy well adjusted dogs, are ones who know there place (you and your wife are pack leaders, not Matty) If you waiver with this at all, it stresses dogs, and causes behavioural problems, as well as make some dog neurotic.
Maybe some lessons on how to be the Mattys "pack leader" would help. Make Matty earn every ounce of affection, make him work for you attention, once a dog figures out he's not in charge, it's almost like a relief, the stress totally melts away, they don't have to worry about things anymore, because that's the pack leaders job. JMO. I wish you, your wife and Matty the best of luck and hope everything works out for all of you

[Cathy1]

I haven't posted for a long time because I have been very busy but I know what you are going through.I am having the same problems with my 9 month old Shepherd/Collie Jasper but I am working very hard at it. We also renovated and he has chewed cupboards, drywall,doors,flooring and my coffee table. I tried crate training from the start but he freaked everytime, howling and barking all night. As long as I let him sleep in our room he is great through the night.Since he hates his crate so much I have used it to train him with his destructiveness. When he does something bad I let him know it's wrong and he goes in his crate and I put up with his howling and barking but it has worked. It only took about one month and he hasn't destroyed anything in the house since April 17. He still helps me with gardening by digging up the yard but we are working on that also. Everytime I saw something chewed up I felt like giving up too, but I decided to keep trying everything I could think of to try and stop this behavoir. Everything I did may not work on every dog but it worked for me and I now have a great dog. Please continue trying.It was a lot of work but well worth it. Here is Jasper. Don't let his face fool you, he can be a handful.

[LM1313]

Before you make a decision, I suggest going back to all the previous threads about Matty and reading them through thoroughly with an open mind. I always got the impression that you were dismissing a lot of good advice out of hand or so dubious of it that you expected it to fail. I'm not trying to flame you, truly; but that's my impression.

Also, I would get a sturdy plastic crate for Matty, one that he can't reach the walls/floor through. I'm very cautious of overcrating, but in Matty's case he obviously needs it for his own safety and the structural integrity of the house.

I do think a lot of his behavior is probably adolescent hijinks due to the fact that you said for his first six months he was a perfectly normal lab puppy.

To relieve your wife of her stress, perhaps enroll Matty in doggy daycare, at least one or two days a week.

Also, I recommend learning how to use a check chain (choke chain) and trying that on walks. I know a lot of people here don't approve of them, but on a dedicated puller they are useful. But only if used properly. Letting the dog strain ahead while on a choker will not work and can be harmful. The leash must be LOOSE except when you are issuing a correction, which should give only an instant of pressure before the leash and collar go slack again. Also, always keep the dog on one side (usually the left side is preferred) or the collar won't slacken properly.


~LM~

[SarahLynn123]

I agree that sprayeddog loves Matty very much, but he also has his wife to consider. If it was just sprayeddog and Matty, I would be 100% for trying more to keep him.

I dont think it matters how much time he puts into Matty, unless is wife takes the reigns, goes to classes and practices at home, Matty may never respect her. From his previous posts, I dont think his wife can mentally do that at this point in her life.

I also dont think the situation is fair for anyone involved. His wife is at the point where she is having breakdowns and possibly suffering from depression over Matty. She may not beable to put all her feelings aside and work with Matty without falling into a worse mental state right now. He is waking up early, staying up late, and spending as much time as possible with Matty trying to make him a model citizen and his techniques dont seem to be working which is frustrating, plus his wife cant help much right now, so he's pretty much alone in the training. Matty probably feels unwanted by his wife, and knows he's not living up to his Dads standards.

I still think it would be best for everyone if he found a good lab rescue who can place Matty in a home thats better equipped to handle his behavior. Further down the road, when they are ready to try again, a rescue can place a more suitable dog with them.

[Prin]

Sprayeddog, have you seen this thread? http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=27690
It's a tally of all our dogs' chewings...

At this stage in the game, I wouldn't advise a choker. Matty seems to already know he can win a lot of "contests" and winning a choker contest will only injure him. Without a trainer to show the OP how to use the choker exactly, I wouldn't recommend it.

[doggy lover]

Prin I remember that thread, Tucker is 2 now and still gets into chewing things just not as often and mostly his own things, like his bed or blankets. It has been a wile since he ate part of the house, and yes he could eat drywall through his cage and the carpet under his cage. My hubby still doesn't know all he ate , like holes in the mattress of 2 beds in our house I just patched them up and he never changes the sheets. Mind you Tucker does eat the odd undies that he can get out of the laundry I just replace them, I could never get rid of him for this and the puppy chewing does stop, eventualy.

[Mahealani770]

Sprayeddog, How are things going with Matty? Do you still have him?
How is your wife? And how are you?

Sincerely,
Mahealani

[Me and Kayla]

I'm coming in at the tail end of this conversation and I must admit that I haven't read all the threads word for word....so if this is a repeat...my apologies.

Call BARK BUSTERS

They did wonders for my HOUND FROM HELL Kayla (a pitbull) and my relationship. The best part is that they come to your home and work with you and the dog in YOUR environment. It's amazing how well that works. Kayla went from a dog that I was actually becoming afraid of to a well behaved, lovable and trusted pet. I know some people on this board have a problem with Bark Busters, but personally I think they are well worth it. You buy the program when the dog is young and you can call them back anytime for 'free' for the life of the dog. I've called them back 4 times in Kayla's young life (3 years) for various issues that I had trouble dealing with and each and every time, one visit did the trick....problem solved.

Which ever way you choose to handle Matty....I wish you all well.

Me and Kayla

[mafiaprincess]

Really.. I've only heard of BB horror stories, and incompetant people running their programs..
Met a good 2 or 3 at woofstock.. All were as clueless as most petsmart trainers..

[Me and Kayla]

Originally Posted by mafiaprincess

Really.. I've only heard of BB horror stories, and incompetant people running their programs..
Met a good 2 or 3 at woofstock.. All were as clueless as most petsmart trainers..

Sorry...can't speak on rumours that you've heard or people you've met, but CAN say that I have had personal dealings with 4 different individuals from BB who have come to my home and trained Kayla and 'me' of course, and each of them showed a great love and respect for dogs and had a solid understanding of dog behaviour and psychology.

What the heck....it can't hurt if you've tried everything else without any success, can it?

[Bearsmom]

So, where is Matty now?

Our lab mix Bear ate all of my left shoes before he turned one year old. He never touched anything of my husbands. He was certifiably insane until he turned 4 years old, then all of a sudden, it was like, "poof" good dog appears. Sheesh.

[Mahealani770]

I don't know, Matty's dad hasn't posted anything in a long time. I'm a little worried that he doesn't want to tell us anything about Matty anymore.
I hope he comes back and gives us an update.

[OntarioGreys]

I am not surprised at all that Matty's dad has not returned especially after some of what was said.

I have raised several pups, mostly hounds most have the typical normal puppy behaviour, but I had one that was an ADHD dog, like humans you can have some that are attention deficient and very hyper and these dogs are very wired and extremely hard to handle, and obedience does not really work with them because they cannot stay focused and are high energy, I had years of experience with dogs by that time and he still drained the heck out of me. I also raised an ADHD child and the dog was worse in many respects because you don't have the same ability to communicate, plus their energy levels are a lot higher than a childs, and when they go thru there rebellious teenage period it is many times worse than the average dog. I went thru 3 obedience classes with Jazz and he failed them all, even the trainer tried spending an hour trying to get him to heel and managed for about 5 seconds, with a dog like this you need to dedicate about 6 hours of hard exercise every single day, and I do not mean walks and even still they are very demanding of attention and very hard to settle down If I had a dog like Jazz today I would not be able to handle it, does that make me a bad person for saying that, not in my opinion anyway , to me it is being realistic, I was 15 years younger and had a teenage son to help with the exercise and to supervise and it was still quite draining both physically and emotionally.

From some of what has been posted I suspect Matty may be ADHD as well, if so I have a lot of sympathy for this family, especially with the criticism they have recieved and the guilt they'll feel if they decide they simply can't handle him any longer, they probably would be great dog owners if he had been a regular puppy, instead they are left feeling like the worst and will probably never feel worthy enough to have another dog, which is truly sad because there are a lot of homeless dogs that likely would have suited them well and would have been a very cherished member of the family. Had they kept Matty their own relationship which sounds like a very loving and caring one could have been destroyed because of their various levels of being able to cope with Matty needs and behaviour , it does not make them bad pet owners just unequipped to handle him. Maybe amphetamines would have help make more manageable, but there is no guarantees. And it lasts till they are about 3 to 4 years of age before they start to settle down.

Do dogs get "attention deficit disorder" or can they be "hyperactive"?
While hyperactivity disorder does exist in dogs, it is rare. Dogs that are hyperactive, a condition also known as hyperkinesis or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), can be diagnosed by veterinary examination and testing. Dogs with hyperactivity disorder are difficult to train, respond poorly to tranquilization, may exhibit repetitive behaviours such as incessant barking or circling, may have gastrointestinal disorders, and can be extremely resistant to restraint. If these dogs do have attention deficit disorder they may respond paradoxically to amphetamines. This means that instead of getting more excitable when given amphetamines, these dogs tend to calm down.