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  #31  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 05:28 PM
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When I joined this board, I just bought our guy from a breeder. I was one of the people that always believed that as long as you do research and get your dog from an ethical breeder, that it is ok - essentially I supported breeders as long as they were ethical (at least whatever that term meant to me at that point in my life).

After being a member (albeit not too active) of this form, I can honestly say that I feel that my eyes have been opened to the sever over population of dogs and cats. I now cannot ever see myself ever purchasing a puppy ever again - my husband and extended family are all on board as well - we will rescue and adopt when we decide to expand our family further.

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you.... i think the ONLY way i see an exception to this is when dogs are bread for work but as a pet... i dont think anyone needs to go the breeder route and I believe that no matter how 'ethical' the breeder is or how responsible they are, at the end of the day they are still adding to the over population of cats and dogs... and that to me, is not what being ethical is.
Oh, Masha, I love you
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  #32  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 07:39 PM
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Masha...you are so gusty posting what you did. I respect you for that.
Thank you so much for supporting our cause (L4H and others, and many who are no longer here on pets).

Again, thank you.
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  #33  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 07:49 PM
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Masha wrote ....

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you...

If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( ) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.
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  #34  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:02 PM
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Masha wrote ....

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you...

If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( ) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.
I put the breeds of my cats in my signature line so they are easily ID'd in pics that I used to post (age and sex is included for health issues). But this is off topic.
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  #35  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
Masha wrote ....

I agree with L4H that as long as there are so many amazing dogs and cats that are being put down, that there is no point in breeding... is it to 'preserve' a breed? well all a breed is, is something that us humans created anyways... who cares what breed your dog is? If you are getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' maybe a dog is not for you...

If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( ) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.
Maybe because they do own a GSD or perhaps one that is a mixed GSD but the predominent behaviour or traits is GSD...so they just say GSD?
Why are we dissecting this? Sorry I must be missing something?
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  #36  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 09:53 PM
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I would suggest they own a GSD because it is a beautiful breed, ditto for any cat they can label with its proper breed, and that beauty is due to dedicated breeders, whom they appear to dislike to say the least. Ironic, isn't it? Always strikes me as strange. But then, I think these types of threads are wasted on a pet forum anyway, I haven't seen any breeders here who aren't very careful with their chosen breed(aka not feeling guilty about anything), or any byb's or puppy millers either. As for people buying a pedigreed pup, it's their own business surely? Their own hard earned money to spend as they please, surely? They shouldn't be cyber bullied into doing what you want. They are not guilty for the sins of the irresponsible owners or puppy farmers. I think your hard sell should be aimed at new pet owners, those looking for their first pet, instead of those who have done their best already. A soft sell would be even better of course, no-one likes to be ranted at. It'd be nice if everyone had to own say 4 cross breds before buying off a breeder, if that's what they wanted. It'd save quite a lot of dogs. I've had Scottie(foxie cross), Kim(Collie cross), Freckles(ACD X Kelpie) and Bluey(unreg. ACD). By that stage I realised ACDs were just the best dog born, LOL, hence my following 35 year involvement with them. In an earlier post I did explain why I wouldn't want a rescue.
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  #37  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 12:28 AM
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I don't like purebreds because of a "look" what I like about purebred option is temperament, health history, drive, desire to work ect.

I am not like most dog owners, we are extremely active, and not just in one sport either, as I have said, be it dogsledding, tracking, dock diving, obedience, agility or ringsport I want a biddable yet hard dog with nerves of steel and a stable temperament to go along with it all. Am I asking a lot... absolutely. Can a rescue do it? probably, and for the most part yes, but sometimes you wind up with a nervy dog, or one with issues, and by no fault of their own but more so poor breeding programs. A nervy dog put into a hard working situation is not only unfair to the dog, but also can be dangerous.

However, this could easily turn into all dogs should be over weight couch potatoes with no outlet instead of working. There are people who are equally opposed to seeing dogs doing what they were bred to do as it is "cruel" to "make" them work... when in reality when dealing with a true working bred dog, they are making their handler work and it is cruel to expect a dog out of that breeding sit on a couch or in a crate all day.

The argument of breeding can go on for ever and in the end nothing has been solved other than driving an even larger wedge between people who agree there is a problem and a solution needs to be found, however, painting absolutely every breeder with the same brush and chastising people who agree with limited breeding with a PURPOSE as opposed to a look or catchy name then there is no way anyone is going make any progress with stopping the ones who are REALLY the major problem.
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  #38  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 12:47 AM
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LOL It's amazing to me that in the long run nothing changes. Same ol, same ol. I checked. Yep, in the right section. Yep, it's a rant, an opinion, a feeling. This type of thread is wasted on a pet forum???? Really??? Amazing. Just flippin' amazing!!! I suppose in some people minds it is. But for others maybe this type of thread just may help to open their eyes to the exact problem which the OP was trying to bring to light.

Education. It benefits everyone to be educated. Even the hard headed who refuse to see the truth. Eventually something has to get through. Eventually change will come. That is all we can hope for.

I believe L4H posted this blog to help educate. THAT is ALL. The truth sometimes sucks. Those numbers don't lie. In a lot of cases they are in fact very low. Why do we continue to argue the facts? It's there in black and white - and red. These animals are dying day after day after day. I don't believe the blogger was blogging against all breeders. I believe the blogger was saying the byb's have to go. The millers have to be obliterated. The animals need to be fixed. That's it, that's all.

Masha - thank you.
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  #39  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 07:42 AM
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  #40  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:02 AM
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Great post 14+K. You are right, the truth hurts.
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  #41  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
LOL It's amazing to me that in the long run nothing changes. Same ol, same ol. I checked. Yep, in the right section. Yep, it's a rant, an opinion, a feeling. This type of thread is wasted on a pet forum???? Really??? Amazing. Just flippin' amazing!!! I suppose in some people minds it is. But for others maybe this type of thread just may help to open their eyes to the exact problem which the OP was trying to bring to light.

Education. It benefits everyone to be educated. Even the hard headed who refuse to see the truth. Eventually something has to get through. Eventually change will come. That is all we can hope for.

I believe L4H posted this blog to help educate. THAT is ALL. The truth sometimes sucks. Those numbers don't lie. In a lot of cases they are in fact very low. Why do we continue to argue the facts? It's there in black and white - and red. These animals are dying day after day after day. I don't believe the blogger was blogging against all breeders. I believe the blogger was saying the byb's have to go. The millers have to be obliterated. The animals need to be fixed. That's it, that's all.

Masha - thank you.
Great post, 14+.
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In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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  #42  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erykah1310 View Post
I don't like purebreds because of a "look" what I like about purebred option is temperament, health history, drive, desire to work ect.

I am not like most dog owners, we are extremely active, and not just in one sport either, as I have said, be it dogsledding, tracking, dock diving, obedience, agility or ringsport I want a biddable yet hard dog with nerves of steel and a stable temperament to go along with it all. Am I asking a lot... absolutely. Can a rescue do it? probably, and for the most part yes, but sometimes you wind up with a nervy dog, or one with issues, and by no fault of their own but more so poor breeding programs. A nervy dog put into a hard working situation is not only unfair to the dog, but also can be dangerous.

However, this could easily turn into all dogs should be over weight couch potatoes with no outlet instead of working. There are people who are equally opposed to seeing dogs doing what they were bred to do as it is "cruel" to "make" them work... when in reality when dealing with a true working bred dog, they are making their handler work and it is cruel to expect a dog out of that breeding sit on a couch or in a crate all day.

The argument of breeding can go on for ever and in the end nothing has been solved other than driving an even larger wedge between people who agree there is a problem and a solution needs to be found, however, painting absolutely every breeder with the same brush and chastising people who agree with limited breeding with a PURPOSE as opposed to a look or catchy name then there is no way anyone is going make any progress with stopping the ones who are REALLY the major problem.
Some of the best sled dogs are mutts (Alaskan Husky), you don't need a purebred to enjoy a sport and you don't need to get sled dogs from breeders, in fact, you can even use BC for sled dogs (GailP), lots of them up for adoption. I have a friend with 6 dogs they use actively for sledding. Guess what, all rescues


Now getting back on topic.

This thread is to educate people about the overpopulation of pets in this world and that there is NO need to be breeding any more while ones are dying in shelters.

It will hopefully open somebody's eyes to not give their precious money to a breeder, but to a shelter that is there to help the homeless animals.
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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  #43  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:16 AM
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In an earlier post I did explain why I wouldn't want a rescue.
This saddens me deeply . Of all the cats I have had in my life, the ones that have been rescued from the hardest of lives have been the most loving creatures.
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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  #44  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:23 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Some of the best sled dogs are mutts (Alaskan Husky), you don't need a purebred to enjoy a sport and you don't need to get sled dogs from breeders, in fact, you can even use BC for sled dogs (GailP), lots of them up for adoption. I have a friend with 6 dogs they use actively for sledding. Guess what, all rescues


Now getting back on topic.

This thread is to educate people about the overpopulation of pets in this world and that there is NO need to be breeding any more while ones are dying in shelters.

It will hopefully open somebody's eyes to not give their precious money to a breeder, but to a shelter that is there to help the homeless animals.
You know, I was at the shelter a few days ago and pulled a few dogs and cats from 'the list'. One a unpapered GSD (2 years), a shih zsu (no papers) and a mixed shnauzer. Also a siamese (no papers) and a few domestics. All loving, beautiful, full of life, happy, greatful....all quiet in my truck and at my mercy..yet so trusting. I sang to them as the cats were frightened (I can't sing btw..)..and soon all calmed down and it was a pleasant drive. I had the GSD's head on my shoulder most of the way. I could feel her breath on my neck..and I was so happy for her. She was happy, quiet and at the same time she knew she was safe.

Every two weeks I go to the shelter and cram in whatever I can possibly squeeze into my truck. I take them to rescues that lovingly opened their hearts and homes to these lucky FEW. My heart aches terribly...TERRIBLY for those I left behind...and could not help. I pray for forgiveness. My heart aches every damn day..every day.
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  #45  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:33 AM
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You know, I was at the shelter a few days ago and pulled a few dogs and cats from 'the list'. One a unpapered GSD (2 years), a shih zsu (no papers) and a mixed shnauzer. Also a siamese (no papers) and a few domestics. All loving, beautiful, full of life, happy, greatful....all quiet in my truck and at my mercy..yet so trusting. I sang to them as the cats were frightened (I can't sing btw..)..and soon all calmed down and it was a pleasant drive. I had the GSD's head on my shoulder most of the way. I could feel her breath on my neck..and I was so happy for her. She was happy, quiet and at the same time she knew she was safe.

Every two weeks I go to the shelter and cram in whatever I can possibly squeeze into my truck. I take them to rescues that lovingly opened their hearts and homes to these lucky FEW. My heart aches terribly...TERRIBLY for those I left behind...and could not help. I pray for forgiveness. My heart aches every damn day..every day.
, you and 14+, have, by far, done more for homeless animals than anybody I know. You two are absolute .


It is this feeling of compassion that drives the passion in our posts. The frustration of breeders contributing to this horror drives me insane.
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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  #46  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:43 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Bottom line L4H is that if one does not walk in these shoes, it is unknown.

Personally, I think (and I could be very wrong); people will buck this because of guilt. I mean think about it..if you are contributing in a negative way, refuse to acknowledge the obvious then it speaks volumes. VOLUMES.

Personally, I give up on people who are on the opposite side of this rescue thing. I totally do, and for this reason I am going to try my hardest to ignore this total lack of compassion and ignorance. I make this pledge as of now. And I am doing this because there is no hope. The only good thing that we who SEE this as a problem are the ones contributing to make a positive step forward, to matter and to make a difference regardless of how big or how small. This group we belong to is not about justification or ego. We are just little people with a big dream and carry alot of hope. That is all I have to say.
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  #47  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 09:01 AM
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Bottom line L4H is that if one does not walk in these shoes, it is unknown.

Personally, I think (and I could be very wrong); people will buck this because of guilt. I mean think about it..if you are contributing in a negative way, refuse to acknowledge the obvious then it speaks volumes. VOLUMES.

Personally, I give up on people who are on the opposite side of this rescue thing. I totally do, and for this reason I am going to try my hardest to ignore this total lack of compassion and ignorance. I make this pledge as of now. And I am doing this because there is no hope. The only good thing that we who SEE this as a problem are the ones contributing to make a positive step forward, to matter and to make a difference regardless of how big or how small. This group we belong to is not about justification or ego. We are just little people with a big dream and carry alot of hope. That is all I have to say.
So true.
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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  #48  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 09:17 AM
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Thank you BenMax for continuing to do what you do. Without you so many more would perish. You posts bring a tear to the eye.
Thank you L4H for posting this on this site. I know it must have given you some pause before you did so.
How many more shelters will have to be built? How many more rescues will have to be formed? How many more people will have to step up and take responsibility for these dogs and cats being born at mills, bybs, and unethical breeders? How many?
And why? Why should they feel they HAVE to be responsible for those millers, bybs, and UBs? Answer is simple - until those groups stop making money on the backs of these unfortunate animals there will always be a need. So freaking sad. So heartbreaking.
The world needs many many many more BenMaxes. Too bad she and her empathy can't be cloned.
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We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
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  #49  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
If people believe this, why do they put on their posts that they own a 'GSD', a 'Himilayan cat' or whatever. Why not just put x number of cats, or dogs, or their names instead of giving one iota of credit to the breeders( ) in the past who created these beautiful purebred animals? To be believable why show pride in anything that might be purebred? Have a crossbreed as your avatar for instance.
As I wrote in my post, we did get our dog from a breeder because at the time it seemed like the normal thing to do, given what we knew at the time. I joined the board when he was a pup and it is while being a member here that I changed my views about getting a dog from a breeder.

I put 'GSD' as an identifier, we did get him from a breeder and writing GSD is a one word description of approx. what type of dog we have (look, size, common health issues, etc.). There is nothing wrong about liking a certain look for a dog, what I said was wrong in my opinion, is "getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' ". Our guys is a GSD and I dont see why I should ignore/hide this/be ashamed of this. But him being a GSD is not what I am proud of. Instead, what I am proud of is how he is so patient with the kitties, even when they boss him around. How he has accepted our daughter as one of his own from the first minute. How he snuggles next to me on the couch and gives me kisses. How he always accompanies me everywhere. Basically how much he loves his family is what I am proud of. If his fur turned green tomorrow and his ears became droopy I would love him just as much.

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Maybe because they do own a GSD or perhaps one that is a mixed GSD but the predominent behaviour or traits is GSD...so they just say GSD?
Why are we dissecting this? Sorry I must be missing something?
Exactly, thank you BM! We put GSD because we own a GSD, simple as that. It just tells people a little more about the type of dog we have. I don't see why I should hide that he is GSD - I do not support further breeding of GSDs but he is already one.

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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
I would suggest they own a GSD because it is a beautiful breed, ditto for any cat they can label with its proper breed, and that beauty is due to dedicated breeders, whom they appear to dislike to say the least. Ironic, isn't it? Always strikes me as strange.
As I stated before, we bought our guy before I came to realize the magnitude of the over population problem. As well, we absolutely did NOT get a GSD because he is 'beautiful'. He is indeed beautiful but that is a side note. My husband and I wanted a large, family oriented, active dog that will be good in Canadian winters. We are both of russian background and GSDs are very highly regarded there as a great overall dog and we decided to get one. At the time we went the breeder route because we thought that this is best (we thought this will reduce his chances for health problems or behavioral problems, etc. - ha!! the vets know us by name... and it took A LOT of training to get to where we are now).

I am not saying breeders are bad people. Some breed because they love the breed and love dogs (I personally know some breeders who ADORE their dogs). I think some people just have a harder time wrapping their mind on the over population concept and how their actions have a direct effect on this. I will admit it took me a while to realize it myself too, it is hard to change your thinking when you get set in your ways.

I am not here to attack anyone. I do not hate or dislike breeders, I just get sad that so many sweet amazing dogs are unwanted out there....
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  #50  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Great post Masha. Well written with grace. Thank you.
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  #51  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Some of the best sled dogs are mutts (Alaskan Husky), you don't need a purebred to enjoy a sport and you don't need to get sled dogs from breeders, in fact, you can even use BC for sled dogs (GailP), lots of them up for adoption. I have a friend with 6 dogs they use actively for sledding. Guess what, all rescues


Now getting back on topic.

This thread is to educate people about the overpopulation of pets in this world and that there is NO need to be breeding any more while ones are dying in shelters.

It will hopefully open somebody's eyes to not give their precious money to a breeder, but to a shelter that is there to help the homeless animals.
So you covered one sport, I didn't say a sled dog had to be a siberian husky, I know alaskan huskies are mixed breeds and rescues can run. Look here for instance, Elmo is by far a better sled dog than any of my purebreds.
It is on topic though especially when you are talking about sports like ring.
It may be hard for one to grasp what is needed in a well bred dog to do well safely in sports like mondio and french ring.

I don't understand how it seems to be that if we don't agree with rescue people 100% that we are on the "other end" of it. I'm not... I'm ALL for rescue, I have even stated that YES a couple years of a break for nearly every breeder out there IS needed and that ALL should pool together to get rid of puppy farmers and back yard breeders once and for all... however this falls on deaf rescue ears because I in the same breath can give reasons why GOOD breeding programs are still important.

I am not going to point fingers and say I am better or so and so is a lunatic because they don't agree with me. In the end though, face it. Because of my opinion on the matter I am basically black listed from rescue cliques because I can see the importance in both ends. So if I was to want to help... not one of the rescue people on here like me very much for various personal reasons and I had bred one litter, AND I own and have purchased from breeders. There is NO way in some rescue eyes that I could possibly help right????
Then for a while I had what I felt was the spy. I have never fully understood the fluctuations between contacting or blog reading from one particular person or the private interest in things we do here... I have nothing to hide from anyone on this site, what I have done is public and what I will do is going to remain public. I don't feel the need to gang up with other breeders and waste my time and energy bashing ANYONE. I will pool that energy and resources for when it is needed.

But I guess its because I have never seen it first hand right thats right, I have never had the crippled old dogs living here that were rescues whom I spent so many sleepless nights crying over, fighting for and trying to "fix", I have never fostered, or pulled a dog from a high kill shelter or situation, oh no... nor have I worked with anyone on rescuing dogs or cats. Never fell in love with a dog who a rescue put down because of human aggression and feared for another because it seems to be heading down the same track... What would I know about rescue??? Clearly nothing because I am a BREEDER
Fact of the matter is, if I were to reach out to any rescue person on this site I would most likely get the shaft due to personal issues with me. But when I see a need for concern on something I have NO issues helping anyone here.

However, when the entire province was bothered by one TM breeder recently about relinquishing 14 of her dogs to rescue... MANY rescues contacted me to see if I could help you're damned right I said yes and started making calls to others who could help. These dogs are still in the care of the breeder and many rescues are left scratching their heads as to what is going on with them... but I don't understand rescue right?
What i don't understand is the my way or the highway mentality I tend to interpret, i may be way off to left field with that one but it is the impression I get.

That old saying "You have a right to your opinion as long as it agrees with mine" is how it comes across.

I just think that most of this argument is preaching to the choir basically. Yes you may have a close minded puppy miller come across this and skip right by it, no realization of what they are doing and the harm they cause so many animals. Or you may get the "consumer" come by this thread. Personally if I didn't understand the over population problem, i would be very intimidated by many of the rescue posts here and be afraid to ask a question. Intimidation and/or bullying is not going to get anyone anywhere. I know it is frustrating repeating ourselves (yes i just lumped myself in with the rescues here) and educating people to why for the MOST part they do not need a breeder dog and can get EXACTLY what they are looking for from a rescue that has pulled dogs and spent time with dogs and assessed them to no end to ENSURE it is a good match, but for every ONE person who WE can patiently explain the difference and give compassionate reasoning to that is ONE less person who supported a mill or byber.

I just feel we waste too much time and energy bickering amongst each other and looking like crazies on all ends that no one would dare ask any of us for our help or thoughts on a dog they want.
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  #52  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:21 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Erykah, I am so sorry that you feel this way. Infact you did enlighten me on a few posts and everything is taken into account.

I feel that people are missing the point of the initial OP's post. It is not about breeders. Infact it is about being aware of the facts and make a decision by empowering one's self with all the important information and stats. Then, make a decision.

For sure, us in rescue would LOVE for everyone to go to a shelter or a rescue to get their fur companions. I would absolutely lie if I said otherwise.

I infact do have a close friend who is a breeder. BUT, she also helps me with different breeds as well as the one she breeds and finds homes for them. Great homes at that. She enlightened me on her breeding practices. Her dogs are gorgeous and she spends alot of time and money on each dog. She has however for the past 2 years stopped breeding because there are some of her preferred breeds from who knows where winding up in shelters and pounds. She took it upon herself to sterlize and find homes for these dogs. In saying this, she does intend to breed again..but not right now. She put a hold on it and started to contribute financially and hands on with rescue dogs. Dawg love her!

I want to add that initially we were not friends. Infact, I was on the rescue side of things and she on the other. Our common denominator was animal welfare. That is how we met. Through this we talked..alot. I learnt, and so did she.

Anyways all this to say that regardless of how you interpret all the comments, the most important thing about this thread is education and the options out there. Hopefully someone interested in getting a companion animal will sift through all this smokescreen and make a decision on which route they wish to entertain.
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  #53  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:21 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masha View Post
As I wrote in my post, we did get our dog from a breeder because at the time it seemed like the normal thing to do, given what we knew at the time. I joined the board when he was a pup and it is while being a member here that I changed my views about getting a dog from a breeder.

I put 'GSD' as an identifier, we did get him from a breeder and writing GSD is a one word description of approx. what type of dog we have (look, size, common health issues, etc.). There is nothing wrong about liking a certain look for a dog, what I said was wrong in my opinion, is "getting a dog because you simply want a dog of a certain 'look' ". Our guys is a GSD and I dont see why I should ignore/hide this/be ashamed of this. But him being a GSD is not what I am proud of. Instead, what I am proud of is how he is so patient with the kitties, even when they boss him around. How he has accepted our daughter as one of his own from the first minute. How he snuggles next to me on the couch and gives me kisses. How he always accompanies me everywhere. Basically how much he loves his family is what I am proud of. If his fur turned green tomorrow and his ears became droopy I would love him just as much.



Exactly, thank you BM! We put GSD because we own a GSD, simple as that. It just tells people a little more about the type of dog we have. I don't see why I should hide that he is GSD - I do not support further breeding of GSDs but he is already one.



As I stated before, we bought our guy before I came to realize the magnitude of the over population problem. As well, we absolutely did NOT get a GSD because he is 'beautiful'. He is indeed beautiful but that is a side note. My husband and I wanted a large, family oriented, active dog that will be good in Canadian winters. We are both of russian background and GSDs are very highly regarded there as a great overall dog and we decided to get one. At the time we went the breeder route because we thought that this is best (we thought this will reduce his chances for health problems or behavioral problems, etc. - ha!! the vets know us by name... and it took A LOT of training to get to where we are now).

I am not saying breeders are bad people. Some breed because they love the breed and love dogs (I personally know some breeders who ADORE their dogs). I think some people just have a harder time wrapping their mind on the over population concept and how their actions have a direct effect on this. I will admit it took me a while to realize it myself too, it is hard to change your thinking when you get set in your ways.

I am not here to attack anyone. I do not hate or dislike breeders, I just get sad that so many sweet amazing dogs are unwanted out there....
Excellent post. I think you have summed up very well.
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  #54  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:31 AM
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erykah1310 erykah1310 is offline
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One more thing before I head out the door...

TRUST ME, in the past 3 years I have logged countless hours talking to, being mentored by, and learning from MANY breeders of various breeds. And I can honestly say, it is those breeders who appear PERFECT on their websites, are active in their breed club and are by all "standards" of pet people appear to be ethical breeders have the most to hide.

I have been told in the past 3 years " no don't make that public", "no don't discuss why you are considering spaying your dog", "No we didn't test these litters as we have had these lines for decades and all are fine", "Yes I show and have some highly titled dogs on my website but come by and see my non registrable dogs and the puppies i have out of them, you may be interested in these lines" to the insane reasoning behind rehoming dogs out of a kennel with a big story behind it but in reality it is the same path this breeder took last time they wanted to change up their breeding stock, but EVERYONE here pushed for someone to buy from that breeder... EVERYONE!
Thanks to the internet and so many peoples set rules for what to look for in a breeder, one could make their dogs appear extremely 'marketable' <-( yes that is the ACTUAL term said person used)
To be honest, over the past 3 years and the hours I have spent with these breeders and hearing things that made my blood boil and stomach turn I have come to realize that I was happier when i was in the rescue world. But if no one challenges the old ways they do things and operate by raising the bar on them how will anything ever change? Entire litters will remain to be culled, dogs who should never be bred will continue to be bred, and fancy Ch titles that can be bought will continue to wow "consumers" and manipulating them into believing they did the right thing by buying from that breeder. FULL awareness of every aspect of breeding, and rescue needs to be put out in the open and we need to educate those who are shopping for their next pet. You can't convince a miller to stop, the pay out is too good for them, all you can do with current laws is educate the masses, if the dogs don't turn a profit for them, they will find something that does.
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  #55  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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I didn't write the blog posted in the original post, but it does reflect very closely to how I feel. It is for that reason that I posted it here. This forum gets a lot of traffic and as I mention in my original post that I am hoping it enlightens just one person to reach out to a homeless pet before going to a breeder.

This thread is not intended to point fingers at anybody and I am hoping those who feel compelled to keep posting their believes about "rep" breeders would let me have my thread about the over population of pets.

Once again, this is about education, not pointing fingers.
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Last edited by Love4himies; February 3rd, 2012 at 11:49 AM.
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  #56  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:38 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Thank you BenMax for continuing to do what you do. Without you so many more would perish. You posts bring a tear to the eye.
Thank you L4H for posting this on this site. I know it must have given you some pause before you did so.
How many more shelters will have to be built? How many more rescues will have to be formed? How many more people will have to step up and take responsibility for these dogs and cats being born at mills, bybs, and unethical breeders? How many?
And why? Why should they feel they HAVE to be responsible for those millers, bybs, and UBs? Answer is simple - until those groups stop making money on the backs of these unfortunate animals there will always be a need. So freaking sad. So heartbreaking.
The world needs many many many more BenMaxes. Too bad she and her empathy can't be cloned.
Thank you, 14+ . Yes it did give me pause, because I feel like I'm being bullied every time I post about breeders contributing to the overpopulation of pets . All I want is for animals to stop dying in shelters and abandoned outside to die a slow death.
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  #57  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Masha Masha is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Thank you, 14+ . Yes it did give me pause, because I feel like I'm being bullied every time I post about breeders contributing to the overpopulation of pets . All I want is for animals to stop dying in shelters and abandoned outside to die a slow death.
look at the bright side, the more hits and replies you get to this post, the higher up it moves in the search engines and the mroe likely it becomes that more people will see and read this
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  #58  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masha View Post
look at the bright side, the more hits and replies you get to this post, the higher up it moves in the search engines and the mroe likely it becomes that more people will see and read this

Good point
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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  #59  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Goldfields Goldfields is offline
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Would you get rid of your registered GSD to make room for a rescue, Masha? GSD's are the great dog they are entirely due to dedicated breeders in the past caring about all the attributes you value in them. I do like to give them credit. I wonder if the rescue GSD is going to be sounder than the dog the breeder sold you? You could adopt one and find out I guess?(Or adopt 6 then we'll both be equal on 7 dogs.)
I know plenty of breeders who adore their dogs, it really isn't uncommon. My dogs are not perfect, but I have a 13 year old, a 12 yo, two 10yo's, two 8 yo's, and the latest addition who is only two. EVERY dog I have reared to adulthood has been a much loved and spoilt family member till the day it died, I can give you their ages there also. Sorry if that in any way dispels the myth that heartless breeders only want to make money from their dogs and get rid of them without a second thought.
I know you are sad for the unwanted dogs, everyone is, but I do not understand L4H's insistence that breeders should be rescuing them. I think the breeders who actually produced them should - no arguments on that score , but they are not the ones that get targetted.
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  #60  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
but I do not understand L4H's insistence that breeders should be rescuing them.
Not sure where you got that from. Would it be great if they did rescue as well as breed, absolutely. AND it would give me more respect to that breeder. That shows that they really do care. I have never INSISTED that they do .
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Jasper RIP (2001-2018)
Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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